PL-880 LongWave (and some strange idea's)

[Haley]

I have always had an interest in LongWave , and reading about the Public Emergency Radio of the United State's, I was hooked again. I have several portables that can receive the band. I know they are not the best , but it's all I have. Anyway here goes-----I am out of my element here, just looking for something different to do in the hobby.

1. I have a goal of listening to , WITHOUT external antennas, and using only portables (PL-880, DX398, and PL-380) on LongWave. Kind of like ultra-light dx'ing, but on LW. Does anyone have or use these models for that goal? Or does anyone even do something like this? I do understand the basic limitations of my equipment , and the physical properties of LW.

2. Which one would be best suited? Coverage is 100-519 kHz. for the 880 (and much finer tuning, filter's), and 153-519 kHz. for the other two models, and no SSB on the 380. I do have a few other radio's with LW analog, and digital), just not sure their internal antenna's would be enough, they are smaller than the 380.

3.Years ago , late 90's, early 2000s my 398 picked up quite a few beacons. Does the solar cycle effect LW in the way it does SW? Or are their just less of them around?

This isn't a question but an observation. I THOUGHT my 398 was better than the 880, UNTIL I turned the USB on , and set the bandwidth filter to the 1.2 kHz. setting----WOW, a huge difference, at least at my location. The 880 does quite well, and this is in the day time, and inside at the moment.

And I have read through the LW club of America's website, Bill Hepburn's site , and Kevin Carrey's LW forum (in every old monitoring times I have), just trying to gain knowledge in this strange (to me) band. I just like doing the different stuff. Thanks for any help, or ideas. And sorry for the ramble! Mike

 

[w2xq]

As there is no indication of your location, I assume you are hearing only NDBs and not the few remaining LW broadcasters from Eu/Af. For NDBs, a narrow bandwidth is best. Re the receiver choice--I haven't tried them--assuming about the same sensitivity--the one most immune to MW mixing products, images, spurious signals (call 'em what you will) would be my choice.

I never noticed the solar cycle having a material effect on LW reception except during major geomagnetic storms when the noise floor would rise.

My perception is today the problem is how to get away from all the noise generated by the cable TV system with the electronics attached thereto, the computers, wall warts powering noisy smartphones and tablets, etc and so forth.

Grayline DXing the LW stations can be interesting. Have you tried that?

 

[Haley]

w2xq,

I wrote all that and forgot to put my location----can't believe I did that. I am in central Iowa, and yes NDB is what I hear. I would REALLY like to hear a broadcast LW station, but even my expectation's are not that high.
That's good to know on the solar cycle, I had always been curious. I know storms (just like MW and SW) do cause problems, mostly static crashes.

You are right getting away from all the "noise" IS the hardest part. Even outside , power lines, tower's, and on and on. I have not heard about Grayline Dxing, I am interested though. What does that entail?

 

[Haley]

I looked Grayline dxing up, well now that's going to keep me busy. Very interesting. Just watched a short video on YT of someone dx'ing BBC 4 on 198kHz. from the US. Going to look into this some more, thank you for that suggestion. Mike

 

[krokus]

I have a goal of listening to , WITHOUT external antennas, and using only portables (PL-880, DX398, and PL-380) on LongWave. Kind of like ultra-light dx'ing, but on LW.

Does that include loop antennas, that you can take with you?

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[Haley]

Does that include loop antennas, that you can take with you?

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I was going to try and only use the internal antennas, just as a challenge. But I am open to any suggestions. Probably the smaller the better, Mike

 

[pjxii]

I've been really getting more into longwave than HF in recent years. Nighttime will bring in more than daytime. I don't have any of those radios but a do have a couple of portables (Panasonic DR26 which is a VERY large portable and a Panasonic RF-B65).

For me the key to DXing these NDBs has been to use the narrow filter in SSB mode and bandscanning for the sound of heterodynes, With your 880 you have a good selection of bandwidth filters from what I understand, I'd be starting with a bandwidth around 3 kHz then going narrower to cut down on noise and any interference from beacons on nearby frequencies. On a good night you could have many coming in and need good selectivity. The RF-B65 has a stable fine tuning to zero beat which makes it easier. The DR26 from the Command Series has a very unstable BFO for SSB speech but for hunting NDBs its good enough.

European/North African broadcast stations will be difficult from Iowa but not impossible, if you don't try you'll never hear them. They'll be coming in best during wintertime nights, 171 kHz Morocco and 252 kHz Algeria were pretty regular here in Florida last winter, they'd kind of come and go throughout the night but there were times that they'd be pretty strong. Each night will be different, don't be discouraged by not hearing anything for a while, you just gotta keep trying.

Getting away from noise is a must. Try walking around the house/apartment with your radio tuned to the strongest NDB and see where interference covers it up. You may find a spot that's really RFI quiet. If you have a yard even better. Try a local park away from buildings kicking out RFI and have fun.

 

[pjxii]

Here's a lonwave antenna that you can take portable. It's from Australia but has a good review on eham:

http://www.amradioantennas.com/Leaflets/PK's Loop Antennas Catalogue.pdf

Here's the review:

https://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/5462

I have not used this, just thought I'd give you an idea. I have a Palstar LA30 ferrite loopstick antenna that I can use with batteries but I'm a longwave fanatic so that's overkill for you.

 

[Haley]

I've been really getting more into longwave than HF in recent years. Nighttime will bring in more than daytime. I don't have any of those radios but a do have a couple of portables (Panasonic DR26 which is a VERY large portable and a Panasonic RF-B65).

For me the key to DXing these NDBs has been to use the narrow filter in SSB mode and bandscanning for the sound of heterodynes, With your 880 you have a good selection of bandwidth filters from what I understand, I'd be starting with a bandwidth around 3 kHz then going narrower to cut down on noise and any interference from beacons on nearby frequencies. On a good night you could have many coming in and need good selectivity. The RF-B65 has a stable fine tuning to zero beat which makes it easier. The DR26 from the Command Series has a very unstable BFO for SSB speech but for hunting NDBs its good enough.

European/North African broadcast stations will be difficult from Iowa but not impossible, if you don't try you'll never hear them. They'll be coming in best during wintertime nights, 171 kHz Morocco and 252 kHz Algeria were pretty regular here in Florida last winter, they'd kind of come and go throughout the night but there were times that they'd be pretty strong. Each night will be different, don't be discouraged by not hearing anything for a while, you just gotta keep trying.

Getting away from noise is a must. Try walking around the house/apartment with your radio tuned to the strongest NDB and see where interference covers it up. You may find a spot that's really RFI quiet. If you have a yard even better. Try a local park away from buildings kicking out RFI and have fun.

Panasonic (and Sony) always seemed to make some DX machines. I have always tried the taking an approach of" the least amount of equipment "( I have quite a bit----ask the wife) for the task. It always makes things harder or more challenging , but that's what I like.

I listen to a lot of the "oddball ranges" in everything from LW- to the top of UHF. One thing about the Tecsun 880 is the wide choice of filters. On AM I have 9,5,3.5, and 2.3 kHz. and on SSB 4,3,2.3,1.2, and .5 kHz. and extremely fine tuning. I have found (so far) putting it in USB and using the 2.3 or 1.2 kHz. really lets a lot in. I don't even hear anything in regular AM sometimes, but using that combo really lets the 880 shine, even inside and during the day. I have noticed though , a lot the people that do the same seem to use LSB, so I may i have to give that a try also.

I do have spare room (not my radio room, of course), that seems to be much better, less interference. I also have a yard, I do go out quite a bit, much better signals of course, at night magnified even more. Sometimes I just park the 880 on one of the broadcast freq. as you suggested. I try these 3 the most 171,198, and 252 kHz.. I figure I have nothing to lose. Thank you for that antenna suggestion, going to check it out. LW has always just struck me as a very interesting set of freq. to monitor. Thank you again, for the suggestions, Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

Unfortunately I don't think you're going to hear much on a portable without some sort of extra antenna. I don't have a 880, but I'm going to bet that even tho the LW front end might couple into the MW antenna, it's not going to be very efficient. Combine that with the reduced sensitivity (to try to alleviate mixing products from strong MW stations) that most US marketed radios have, and you can easily see that you need some help.

You've already got the idea about resources, and that's a good first step. Mike

 

[w2xq]

Unfortunately, with your portables central Iowa precludes receiving Eu/Af broadcasters.

Grayline DXing simply means that the probability of hearing distant stations is best when both stations are on the sunrise or sunset terminator line. Signals rise out of the noise level, peak, and drop; my usual experiences on LW and MW have been 5-10 minutes.

1. https://www.robkalmeijer.nl/technie...hniek/hambladen/qst/1992/11/page80/index.html
2. Earth View
3. https://dx.qsl.net/propagation/greyline.html

I still look for smsll-scale grayline maps, to no avail.

As seasons change, so does the terminator line tilt and the opportunities to hear different areas of the globe.

There was a wonderful DOS/Windows program called GeoClock that I can still run on Windows 7. (I bought the app and the ~40 maps.) Many small-scale maps enabled me to look at the terminator at the transmitter site. This https://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Other-Internet-Related/J-R-Ahlgren-GeoClock.shtml may still work to get the program. Search for GeoClock and you will find other links. I've not found a "new" Windows or Android app equivalent.

Good luck.

 

[WA8ZTZ]

You really need an external antenna for any serious LW work.

 

[Haley]

Unfortunately I don't think you're going to hear much on a portable without some sort of extra antenna. I don't have a 880, but I'm going to bet that even tho the LW front end might couple into the MW antenna, it's not going to be very efficient. Combine that with the reduced sensitivity (to try to alleviate mixing products from strong MW stations) that most US marketed radios have, and you can easily see that you need some help.

You've already got the idea about resources, and that's a good first step. Mike

Mike, do you know of any portable (even older out of production) radios that were good at LW? Maybe a European model? Or analog radio's vs. digital? Mike

 

[Haley]

Unfortunately, with your portables central Iowa precludes receiving Eu/Af broadcasters.

Grayline DXing simply means that the probability of hearing distant stations is best when both stations are on the sunrise or sunset terminator line. Signals rise out of the noise level, peak, and drop; my usual experiences on LW and MW have been 5-10 minutes.

1. https://www.robkalmeijer.nl/technie...hniek/hambladen/qst/1992/11/page80/index.html
2. Earth View
3. https://dx.qsl.net/propagation/greyline.html

I still look for smsll-scale grayline maps, to no avail.

As seasons change, so does the terminator line tilt and the opportunities to hear different areas of the globe.

There was a wonderful DOS/Windows program called GeoClock that I can still run on Windows 7. (I bought the app and the ~40 maps.) Many small-scale maps enabled me to look at the terminator at the transmitter site. This https://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Other-Internet-Related/J-R-Ahlgren-GeoClock.shtml may still work to get the program. Search for GeoClock and you will find other links. I've not found a "new" Windows or Android app equivalent.

Good luck.

w2xq, thank you for those links and ideas, I am now learning more about grayline dx'ing! Mike

 

[Haley]

You really need an external antenna for any serious LW work.

I am leaning more and more that way. But now I want the most portable and smallest LW antenna I can find. So I am searching for that now. Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

Mike, do you know of any portable (even older out of production) radios that were good at LW? Maybe a European model? Or analog radio's vs. digital? Mike

Every US portable - and even many US marketed desktops - are going to have exactly the same issue. I'm totally unfamiliar with the Euro market, so I can't even begin to guess at that. The place to find out about things like this is the Longwave Club of America, as mentioned a bit earlier. I suspect someone there has a mod or two for some radios to wake them up.

Mike

 

[pjxii]

I just did a quick longwave bandscan on my DR26 and its noisy as all get out. Very few NDBs coming in over the noise. Aside from strong Florida beacons I only found one from Georgia here. The DR26 is a very good beacon hunter, aside from lack of selectivity (though I have a plan for that).

The noise I'm referring to is from lightning strikes. Take a look at this website:

https://www.lightningmaps.org/?lang=en#

Lots of lightning in the midwest right now. Thunderstorm season is a bad time for longwave DXing. Honestly, I'd give it a couple of months to cool off and then see what your PL-880 is capable of first, then look to upgrade equipment.

 

[ka3jjz]

I have been told - and this needs to be researched, so don't take this as gospel - that some E field antennas - i.e. active verticals - can be very good at LW. Assuming you get a decent radio, this seems like a very inexpensive possibility...

Active Antenna 10kHz - 30 MHz

Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

Here are a couple more, more expensive - and the first is probably better for our Euro cousins...

Cross Country Wireless HF Active Antenna

https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/2531.html

Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

And a bit more from the North Country folks...

Earth Receiver, ELF, and Low Frequency Receiving Items

Mike