please? Help a newb program a rebanded trunk system into a bearcatbcd996xt

[bearcatbcd996xt]

please? Help a newb program a rebanded trunk system into a bearcatbcd996xt(WA cnty)

Hello, as stated im a newbie at this scanning thing but loving it, i had an old 1989 scanner but have since moved up, two weeks ago i bought the uniden bearcatbcd996xt without pre programming, and love it greatly. so far its worked great for conventional freqs ive had no problems. but now i am trying to program my first trunked system and cant realy figure out what to put in each required field, im hoping someone can walk me through this step by step with a specific example, im trying to program Washington County / Clackamas County Oregon

Washington County / Clackamas County Trunking System, Various, Oregon - Scanner Frequencies

so far in setting up my site within the motorola system i believe i understood that i must use a custom band plan because of rebanding in the washington county / clackamas county area, i believe i read somewhere that i need to choose either band plan 1 or 2 but i cant remember why, i havnt been able to figure out what discerns these options of band plan 1 - 6, in selecting band plan 1 i need to set a base freq, totaly clueless here, the manual says "The Lower Base Frequency (or Base ) is always the base frequency as provided in the RRDB." im guessing that RRDB is radio reference database (maybe im wrong), looking in the database i dont know which is supposed to be the base freq. i guess the lowest of the list would be 851.87500, i got a feeling thats totaly not the freq i should be inputing, i tryed it, and used the spreadsheet inside the manual which did the math for me, the manual explained the math but i have yet to comprehend it, i got an answer of 852.7000 for the upper base, i hope it doesnt matter that this spreadsheet has a title of 'BCD396XT Entries' on the calculating table since i am using the bcd996xt, with that done i have only the option to enter frequencies i assume this is where this list of freqs on the link above come in, and then it seems i create a talk group within the system and input the channel, on the list within the database there is an option for DEC and HEX for each talk id, but i can only change the option for the system between HEX or DEC so how do i choose which should be used for scanning all the talk ids? does it matter? perhaps hex and dec are just two options and i can use either? or perhaps i should have two systems to have both hex and dec being scanned? help, please? and thank you.

 

[joescanner]

I don't have an XT scanner that I can experiment with at the moment, but for rebanded systems you want to set up a custom 800 bandplan as follows:

range 1: base 440 - lower 851.0250 upper 854.0000 step 25.0khz offset +
range 2: base 0 -lower 851.0125 upper 868.9875 step 25.0khz offset +
range 3: (blank)

The "bandplan 1 2 3 4" does not apply because you are defining a custom band plan.

As far as using HEX or DEC, I would strongly urge you to use DEC because that is by far the most common among scanners. Both are available in the database, but in my experience, programming with a computer using HEX is unreliable.

The frequencies listed in the DB for the WCCCA/C800 system are correct as of today. With the XT scanners, you only need to enter four frequencies designated as "Control" or "Alternate Control" (I think the database paints them blue and red) for the site you want to listen to.

Now, if you plan on listening to the Clackamas County sites, you will actually want to program 8 frequencies in. The four frequencies that are in the database and four frequencies that are exactly 15 MHZ below the frequencies posted in the database. This is because Clackamas County will be making the change to the rebanded frequencies in the very near future. After rebanding has happened (you will know because all the frequencies will be below 862.0000MHz) you can remove the "old" frequencies and just leave the 852/853 frequencies.

I know that was a whole lot of technicalese, but hope it helps.

joe

 

[kilowa22]

Please review this web page
Rebanding of 866-869 MHz Trunked Radio Systems

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

i wrote a book

I don't have an XT scanner that I can experiment with at the moment, but for rebanded systems you want to set up a custom 800 bandplan as follows:

range 1: base 440 - lower 851.0250 upper 854.0000 step 25.0khz offset +
range 2: base 0 -lower 851.0125 upper 868.9875 step 25.0khz offset +
range 3: (blank)

The "bandplan 1 2 3 4" does not apply because you are defining a custom band plan.

As far as using HEX or DEC, I would strongly urge you to use DEC because that is by far the most common among scanners. Both are available in the database, but in my experience, programming with a computer using HEX is unreliable.

The frequencies listed in the DB for the WCCCA/C800 system are correct as of today. With the XT scanners, you only need to enter four frequencies designated as "Control" or "Alternate Control" (I think the database paints them blue and red) for the site you want to listen to.

Now, if you plan on listening to the Clackamas County sites, you will actually want to program 8 frequencies in. The four frequencies that are in the database and four frequencies that are exactly 15 MHZ below the frequencies posted in the database. This is because Clackamas County will be making the change to the rebanded frequencies in the very near future. After rebanding has happened (you will know because all the frequencies will be below 862.0000MHz) you can remove the "old" frequencies and just leave the 852/853 frequencies.

I know that was a whole lot of technicalese, but hope it helps.

joe

side note: i am not in the area to test this, i plan to travel into this county in a week or two, i travel there often, and usualy stay a few days, my hope is that i can have this trunked system up and running properly before i even get in range of it.



oh no i love the technicalese as long as it doesnt fly overhead, please continue.

Seriously thank you greatly, your help has allowed great progress for me, of course i have LOTS more questions, so i will start were i left off in the last post and continue step by step as i do this in hopes it will be easier for anyone to correct any mistake ive made with detail, not to mention if other newbs in my sittuation find this it ought to help alot. i hope i havnt gone overboard here with this post. if ANYONE would please kindly note and try to answer every ? you see i would REALY appreciate it.



Alright so i edit the band plan in the first site, and select custom, i then have to choose from band plan 1 - 6, i hope this is simply the equivelant to what you called range 1 - 3 for your brand scanner.?

i then choose first option band plan 1, here i can set the base freq, offset, and spacing, so i set the base freq and am asked to input lower, i then input 851.0250, after that i have to input upper as 854.0000, thats it for setting base freq in band plan 1, it did not have a field of entry for the base you indicate would have been 440. perhaps this is because we are using different scanners? or maybe i missed something?

to set step i assume i must select set spacing as its titled in this thing, option 25.0khz, ok.

and then the option to set offset, im asked to input offset indicator on display is (CH) it accepts digits only, perhaps this is where i enter 440? so i do. and then polarity +. ok. is that right or did i figure that wrong?

so then i back up and edit band plan 2, which must be range 2 as you referred to it. which goes much the same with me making the same assumptions of translation as band plan 1.

and then the other 4 bandplans i leave 0 in the options as they are by default.

when you say "The "bandplan 1 2 3 4" does not apply because you are defining a custom band plan."

that confuses me, i had no other option but to edit a band plan after selecting the only custom option there was, perhaps there was an error somewhere further back in the process that would have had the option to set a range instead?

so i start a new system and analyze the options that got me this far as i posted last. and come up with nothing different, so back to assumeing it makes no difference words range 1 - 3 or bandplan 1 - 6.

So at this point i enter the frequencies in the DB, do i need four frequencies of the "Control"? or do i need 4 frequencies of the "Alternate Control"? or do i need 2 of "Control" and 2 of "Alternate Control"? or does it not matter at all which combo i use?

and your note about 8 instead of 4 for clackamas is understood and dualy noted i will be sure to do that system that way once i get there.

So, now im back to the system options, i select edit sys options, first option ID scan/Search i leave set by default to search,

in the manual it says the distinction between the two, checks the Talk Group IDs that you program ( ID Scan ) or checks all the Talk Group IDs it can find ( ID Search ) when scanning this site.

so it seems i should prefer search, for broader coverage?

skipping delay time option as self explanatory.

Edit Fleet Map, in the manual it says, Edit Fleet Map, (Required for Motorola Type I or Type I/II Hybrid systems only)

as i understand it now, this system doesnt need the fleet map and i should avoid the menu option totaly, in this instance.

moving on in the system options i see priority id scan, skipping

then Set Status Bit, options are yes or ingore? i have it on yes?, dont know why, next.

Set End Code, Analog, Analog+Digital, or ignore?, i have it on A+D?, not sure why, next.

emergency allert, skipping

Set ID Format, as per your STRONG recommendation i set to DEC,

the other options being well understood i move on.

i edit group and add each DEC code that i see on the RRDB for the first talk group which range from 53424 - 53520, this done i start my second system, and rinse my hair, repeat steps with the already noted alterations.

things proceed similar until i get to clackamas and use 8 frequencies instead of 4. thank you.


Seriously thank you.

 

[UPMan]

The "400" was not another base frequency. It is the offset.

See: EditBandPlan < UnidenMan4 < TWiki

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

thank you for affirming that assumption, one less detail ill have to be concerned with possible having figured wrong.


different question, i noticed in the DB this
"Beaverton PD uses Service Net (referred to as "City Net") as their dispatch talkgroup, shared with Hillsboro PD from about 0100 to about 0600."

im wondering what this means and if it should affect the process at all? confusing cause it refers to a range between 59376 - 60048 thats a range of 672?

 

[UPMan]

0100 to 0600 refers to the time of day (1 AM to 6 AM)

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

aha awesome thank you.,


i know im full of to many questions here and if its a problem ill shut right up from here, otherwise i already got another one, im wondering, if i only have to use 4 of the control frequencys, then why are so many displayed in the RRDB i count 14 for the first site Washington County Simulcast. 10 of them being black and not control or alternate control at all, by not including these, how is it that i wont be missing communications? confussed over that.

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

ok i got ahead of myself, i started running through the same steps i tried to detail in that long book of a post, and got to an error, when i try to enter the DEC talk id into the first group under the first system. i add new channel 53424 for example as the first one i had to enter, and i get a msg Bad TGID, so what i do wrong? just to see i switched it to hex and tried entering that TGID again Bad TGID, so i set back to DEC and am lost.

 

[UPMan]

On any particular site one control frequency is active (it will be one of the red frequencies). That frequency contains control information that tells the scanner what comm is happening on what channel. The scanner uses the band plan you entered to calculate the frequency of the channel and tunes to it directly.

 

[UPMan]

I'm guessing you entered a fleet map at some point...delete it.

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

your right i did, i figured it might have been a mistake, thank you so much for helping me, i deleted the fleet map and now its accepting the TGIDs no problem, i think ill delete that step from my second long book like post to prevent confusing other newbs the way i was.

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

On any particular site one control frequency is active (it will be one of the red frequencies). That frequency contains control information that tells the scanner what comm is happening on what channel. The scanner uses the band plan you entered to calculate the frequency of the channel and tunes to it directly.

i see, with this note and understanding now that i should not have touched the fleet map option, it appears i will not after all have to create any more then just one system unless desired, i can just create different sites within the one system theres 4 on the DB so i make 4 sites. using 4 of the red/blue frequencies in each site, with exception to site 3 Goat Mountain because this site only has 3 red frequencies, is that a problem? should i use a black listed freq to replace the missing fourth for this site, or as i would assume, should i just leave that site with the 3 only red freqs and move on?

and another unrelated question perhaps i shouldnt even ask here, but, one of the details in the RRDB i havnt been able to figure out what it is for, does it have any relevance to programing this trunked rebanded system, or is it a detail i should disregard, i refer to the System ID in this case is 290F and also the Connect Tone in this case being105.88, what would i use these for?

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

I don't have an XT scanner that I can experiment with at the moment, but for rebanded systems you want to set up a custom 800 bandplan as follows:

range 1: base 440 - lower 851.0250 upper 854.0000 step 25.0khz offset +
range 2: base 0 -lower 851.0125 upper 868.9875 step 25.0khz offset +
range 3: (blank)

The "bandplan 1 2 3 4" does not apply because you are defining a custom band plan.

As far as using HEX or DEC, I would strongly urge you to use DEC because that is by far the most common among scanners. Both are available in the database, but in my experience, programming with a computer using HEX is unreliable.

The frequencies listed in the DB for the WCCCA/C800 system are correct as of today. With the XT scanners, you only need to enter four frequencies designated as "Control" or "Alternate Control" (I think the database paints them blue and red) for the site you want to listen to.

Now, if you plan on listening to the Clackamas County sites, you will actually want to program 8 frequencies in. The four frequencies that are in the database and four frequencies that are exactly 15 MHZ below the frequencies posted in the database. This is because Clackamas County will be making the change to the rebanded frequencies in the very near future. After rebanding has happened (you will know because all the frequencies will be below 862.0000MHz) you can remove the "old" frequencies and just leave the 852/853 frequencies.

I know that was a whole lot of technicalese, but hope it helps.

joe

So on the clackamas county site, by 15MHZ below am i correct with this subtraction here. example 868.76250c becomes 853.7625c?is that right? and also, if i need to make one for rebanded and one that is not, since they are just yet to reband the system, then wont this take two different sites to program? since i have to use a custom band plan for the rebanded system, on the same note, for the nonrebanded system should i select option 800/900 Standard or 800 Splinter? im realy enjoying all this helping and learning thank you again.

 

[UPMan]

A Motorola site can have up to 4 alternative control channel frequencies, but only one will ever be the active control frequency at any particular time (many systems change at midnight every night). It is not a requirement for the site to have 4...many have only one or two. Short answer: leave it at 3 and move on.

If the system hasn't rebanded, yet, I'd hold off on programming it as such (meaning, you don't need the custom band plan, either...it is only for a site that has already rebanded). Unless you are in a border area (like San Diego, El Paso, etc) you'll use the 800 Standard setting for a site that has not rebanded.

You don't need to use the System ID or connect tone for anything scanner related.

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

thank you very much, i feel like i understand all this leaps and bounds more then i did just last night.

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

I don't have an XT scanner that I can experiment with at the moment, but for

rebanded systems you want to set up a custom 800 bandplan as follows:

range 1: base 440 - lower 851.0250 upper 854.0000 step 25.0khz offset +
range 2: base 0 -lower 851.0125 upper 868.9875 step 25.0khz offset +
range 3: (blank)

joe

is this also the case for Goat Mountain?, Washington County Simulcast, AND Western Washington County Simulcast,?

 

[UPMan]

All rebanded sytems (so far) use exactly the same band plan settings. There is a possibility of an alternate band plan, but so far no system has gone to it.

 

[bearcatbcd996xt]

All rebanded sytems (so far) use exactly the same band plan settings. There is a possibility of an alternate band plan, but so far no system has gone to it.

that is a very helpful piece of info, ill write down that band plan and try to be aware if they do start using new band plans, i hope that i can find out that future news on this site.



im wondering if all the sites on this particular RRDB page have been rebanded or if it is only one or two of the sites, clearly it isnt all four since clackamas hasnt yet, but what about goat mountain, have they rebanded yet?

the DB page doesnt say which of the sites rebanded all it says is "One or more sites for this trunking system have gone through the 800 MHz rebanding process." it would be more helpful if it actualy stated which sites have gone through the rebanding and which havnt, so far ill just assume three have and clackamas is the only one which hasnt this is assuming that if the other 1/2 sites hadnt already rebanded then joescanner hopefully would have mentioned that also when he pointed out clackamas lack of rebanding.

 

[UPMan]

Click on the site name. If the site has rebanded, it will be quite clear.