PLEASE VOTE NOW on MPD encryption!

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troychase

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Mix Mode

The Chief continues to blame cell apps. as to her prime reasons fro encryption. The DCPD uses a mix mode operation for their radios. This means that talkgroups has to be programmed correctly in the scanner in order to stay on one channel. This cannot be done on a cell phone. The people that are using cell phone apps. gets police districts bouncing back and forth. You may be listening to the 7th district for a couple of seconds then it may switch to the 2nd district, then to a tact channel, then to the 4th district. The apps. can't stay still on just one channel. You must have a welled programmed digital scanner in order to do this. And that takes time and lots of money to do this.
 

RobKB1FJR

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At least the transmissions in my area there is a 30 second delay from the live scanner vs. the streaming.

It's always the liberal anti-gun cities that seem to encrypt a primary dispatch channel in most cases I have noticed.
 

scanningisfun

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At least the transmissions in my area there is a 30 second delay from the live scanner vs. the streaming.

It's always the liberal anti-gun cities that seem to encrypt a primary dispatch channel in most cases I have noticed.

Good thing I don't live in or near DC. That chiefs decisions have no effect me so I don't want to care about it. I don't see how she could still blame it on RR after thinking it through because of the delay on the feeds.
 

ff-medic

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the only pd encryptions should be SWAT, Mayors Detail, IA....stuff like that, not regular pd channels

I disagree. Police operations such as - responding to a burglary - severe incident / emergency. Events that give the bad guys a heads up, as far as response time, number of officers showing up, type of officer ( SWAT trained officer / K9 ).

Communications that contain victims names, idenditys of some individuals ( not all traffic can go over the cell network due to structure and geography constraints ).

And you don't want people showing up at a disaster ( large fire / explosion / "Active shooter" ) , cause they heard a location , name of a business, on the "Scanner."

Some encrypted comms, can also prevent some a conversation / broadcast, from being misconstrued, misintepreted by the "Scanner Folk" , preventing rumors, false information, unnecessary panic and fright, or distress of an entire family due to a terrible event ( shooting , car wreck, fire, explosion..ect..ect ).

The topic of radio encryption is a frequent topic here at RR.COM. Myself, having about 18 years of Public Safety experience, I see a need for encryption, among ALL public safety agencys. Industrial settings, government contractors, and Governmebt installations.

Upgrading or adding to a current radio system, these days is not cheap. Setting up a system, checking and testing it, working out the bugs, fine tuning it, maybe add a new antenna, and or repeater..takes money and time. But, it benefits the agency(s) involved, as well as government, and or, agency leaders, by preventing sensitive information from being unnesessarily released , and can quite possibly keep important information, sensitive events and occurrances... " In House." Situations from Uprisings, riots, demostrations, a serial prowler/ rapist / murderer / arsonist, would be denied " Intelligence informartion". Someone whom has committed themselves to being a professional robber, or burgler..would all be denied information from normally, what would be routine, and unencrypted comms. Numer of units reposonding, response time, location of random patrols....locations of probable occurance / event ( Arson, robbery, rape ). Plus..If one of the units was in civilian dress, and or vehicle ; it would prevent the bad guy(s) from seing / noticing the special officer / vehicle.

Encryption can also prevent someone from illegally broadcasting on a Public Safety frequency. "Close Call" and "Signal Staker" scanners that absorb that information ( Transmit freq, receive freq, Pl's / CG's) and or a simple frequency counter. UHF is how much of a freq spread between the transmit and recieve freqs? Hmmm.

I fully belive that Police Officer safety is of the utmost importance. being prior U.S military, I was taught about COMSEC ( Communications Security = language, speakinging, encryption , phone and radio ) and the effects is has. Denying a "potential threat" information to be used against you, your country, as well as the Untied States Government. The same holds true in civilan life.

Firefighters broadcasting how much water they used on a fire, number of responding units, number of hoselines used, location of structure attack, damage to the structure, and the important one....Those hurt, or those whom are victims ( deceased ). Not exactly super secret information, till you find out it could be an arson, and the arsonist is listening to a scanner a few blocks away. Or the news crew shows up, and questions the Fire Departmetn leadership about the fire, BASED on scanner radio traffic. Worse - legal action. My opinion is that there is one documentation and one documentation only....The written report. Even news video / surveillance video / security video, can be misconstrued or misintepreted. News cameras filiming a Paramedic yelling at a person in near cardiac arrest, while the victim is in his back yard.... the Paramedic screaming at the victim as he is intubating him, could be misconstrued. As in my education and training..The hearing is the last thing to go before becoming a fatality.

Public Safety radio traffic can be falsely intepreted....Especially to the untrained ( L/E - Fire / EMS ), or the unknowing. It can be twisted, turned around, and if done properly...used for ones personal benefit. The written document should be the document used to anaylize, critique, question..a particular event, occasion, emergency. Events on the incident scene change ( Fire / Car wreck / shooting ) , and those of us whom have been doing this for awhile, know that nothing is set in stone on a scene. The DOA in the car, may not be the only one. There was a person ejected, and they are found 60 yards from the scene of the auto accident. The Press, citizens hear of only one fatality....reporting that tidbit on the scanner. Come court time, the radio traffic is replayed in court..when actually there were two patients. Oppps...YOUR radio traffic was nto entirely accurate cause incident scenes change. And at times they change drastically.

You hear a fire on the scanner. It is an storage building. You turn the scanner off, and go to the dinner table to eat dinner with your family. You play board games for " Family Night" and afterwards, settle in to watch the 11:00 PM news. The news reports that the storage building was next to a residence, and it causes teh residence and two other housees to go up in flames ( Exposure ) , causing the evacuation of almost an entire small town block..cause three houses. YOUR police scanner traffic was WRONG, adn you assumed you had the correct info. Had it been as bad as reported on the news, you would have stayed next to the scanner and listened. And it can work the other way around too. A serious event, that was not as bad as reported.

A man walks down the street, and sees a man leave a convenience store with blood on his chest. He dials 9-1-1 stating there has been a shooting at a convenience store. 9-1-1 dispatches police, a rescue ambulance, adn an ambulance. The Police Supervisor orders particular units to set up a perimeter around the block of the convenicence store, so the shooter does not get away. Police arrive. The broadcast is that there has been no shooting, the man cut himself on some glass. Ooops. False radio traffic. Traffic that can be misconstrued, provide misinformation in the legal community, cause unnecessary panic, and or anger, wrongly accuse someone ; group of people.

There is a need for radio encryption among Public Safety agencys. I believe that. Denying the public information that - They need not know, compromises scene / officer security. Prevents the necessary details of an event prematurely, helps in prevents an unjust public alarm / worried family members, and it protects sensitive information..which may in the future be used in a court of law. It protects scene, location integrity, helps prevent the accumulation of a large crowd, bystanders...further endangering the civilan population. Prevents patrol schedules, security check locations from being public knowledge. Helps with the overall safety of Public Safety Professionals ( Fire, L/E, EMS ).

Just because you cannot hear an encrypted radio transmission means that you need to get frustrated. It may be information that is = Not relevenat to you anyway. Is private and sensitive in nature. Details events that do not to be disclose at that moment. Helps protect the identity(s) of victims.


FF - Medic !!!
 
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Romak3

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More delay. Minutes, not seconds. Why give them the excuse if not needed?

Also, to RR's benefit......be a paying subscriber to excess live feeds. Nothing wrong with that! If you want an app for a game, GPS, etc etc you got to pay. You want to play? you got to pay!

There is no "free lunch", someone has to pay.
 

Confuzzled

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I fully belive that Police Officer safety is of the utmost importance. being prior U.S military,

That type of elitist thinking has caused a great deal of trouble in this country.

Transparency and accountability are far more important.
 

JoeyC

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That type of elitist thinking has caused a great deal of trouble in this country.

Transparency and accountability are far more important.

Wow. While I certainly do not agree with all of what ff-medic stated, I am pretty sure that someones life and safety trumps the needs of the average citizen to eavesdrop on public servants communications. :confused:
 

DDC185

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I do not believe that the public has a reasonable expectation of access and transparency when it comes to operational radio traffic. If that was the case, should the public be able to view CAD data and listen in to departmental phone calls or pager messages as they pertain to the operations of the department? I am inclined to say that the answer to this question is no.

As far as I know, not many western countries make it possible or legal to monitor their public safety radio traffic (i.e. the UK).

Aside from the criminal and opsec elements and while transparancy is an important factor for public organization, mission critical voice communications are not needed as part of that transparency - especially for people whose hobby is to eavesdrop on communications that are not intended for them. In part, I believe many scanner and media folks are upset because something that has been available to them for as long as they can remember no longer is.

That being said, I do think that the encrypting agency may need to consider making available to media organizations a time delayed broadcast or improve their notifcation processes (emails, tweets etc.), which could take pressure off the calls to make available the radio feed.

Most federal LE agencies are encrypted (FBI, USSS, ICE, ATF, FPS etc) and nobody seems to be getting as upset over that as the encryption of MPDC's comms.
 
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- legal action.

I agree.....to an extent. All of the radio traffic is still accessible under the freedom of information act and if it does come down to legal action they can always subpoena the agency for their tapes.

Also, I agree with you about the LE feeds, they do pose a potential risk to public safety. However, I don't believe that fireground channels are a risk. Most FDs (at least where I listen) don't use names or transmit sensitive information over the air. For example, all the fire investigators, aside from being assigned to an incident, do all their comms via Nextel or landline.

EMS...meh, that's a different can of worms. I think that broadcasting EMS is on the fuzzy grey line that is HIPPA. It's supposed to protect information but if you get the address, age, sex, and type of emergency you can pretty much figure out who it is.

But long story short, law feeds do pose a significant risk. Fire, no risk. EMS....different risk
 

blantonl

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As stated in the other thread, I believe systems should be encrypted end-to-end.

...says a 4 years subscriber to RadioReference.com.

Don't forget to head on over to your favorite RC Aircraft forum and tell the membership that radio controlled aircraft should be completely outlawed for public safety reasons. :roll:
 

W2NJS

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You guys who don't live on the East Coast should realize that the entire area from Boston to DC is one continuous hotbed of liberal thinking. In 1964 Barry Goldwater said the East Coast should be cut off of the continent and allowed to float out to sea. I think he was right. Police Chiefs are, first and foremost, politicians, so saying the "right thing" is a good way to keep your job, especially when you have a person like Vincent Gray as your mayor. Add in the factor that technical considerations almost never enter into political decisions and you have a Police Chief who goes for the encryption argument. Her contract expires early in 2012 and we're hoping for a change but I'd be willing to bet that she's replaced by another "non-thinker" in the job.
 
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KC4RAF

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Thank you Mr. Blanton for saying it out load!

After reading some of the posts, I note hypocrisy. The airwaves should be open for many reasons. Naturally there's times it should be encrypted, stake-outs, swat, ect. It's when the law think THEY are above the law when we the people suffer. That's why we need to hear. We are not a country of communism, dictatorship; let the people hear.
 

ts548

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...says a 4 years subscriber to RadioReference.com.

Don't forget to head on over to your favorite RC Aircraft forum and tell the membership that radio controlled aircraft should be completely outlawed for public safety reasons. :roll:

Just because I'm a member here doesn't mean a thing with how I feel.
 

mike_s104

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I think streaming is doing both in a sense. It brings it to the attention of people like in DC. Scanning/monitoring has around forever. The DC Police chief just probably never thought it would impact them or thought that the ability to monitor their communications was so difficult, stupid criminals would not figure it out. So this is true that making streaming available to any one (just not registered/paid users of RR) makes it easy for the idiots to search for some scanner app for their phone.

In bringing to the attention of the public more, it bring more people to the hobby that really want to go beyond streaming and actually buy a scanner to listen to what they want. It may even attract people to setup a stream of their own to be hosted on RR.

I don't stream because I don't want to broadcast something that an idiot is listening to and cause someone to get hurt or worse. If they have a scanner and listen on their own, at least I wasn't partially responsible for anything that happened. Just my personal feeling.
 
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