Portland P25 System Talkgroups / DSD+ questions

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V_A_R_I_A_B_L_E

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While using DSD+ to monitor the Portland P25 system, I've noticed a couple of things. Firstly, there are several talkgroups that have been detected (usually with 0 recorded transmission hits) that are not listed in the database. I'll list them below, and if anyone can ID what these talkgroups are, I'd be interested to know:
Talkgroups: 7, 88, 103, 277, 373, 511, 670, 825, 895, 1135, 1139, 1240, 1287, 1317, 1887, 1903, 2245, and 3859. Talkgroup 373 has over thirty hits, meaning a conversation of some kind occurred, a few other talkgroups have one or two hits, which I'm guessing was a momentary key up, and the rest have zero hits but they are seemingly registered as existing on the system.


Secondly, there are some things in DSD+ I'd like to correctly understand, and I've posted 3 screenshots that illustrate what I'm wondering about.
In the first window, there's an example of some transmissions that I occasionally see, which are usually very brief, automatically Locked Out by DSD+, and instead of coming up as a talkgroup (such as in the cyan numbers under "Target") they seem to be coming up as a radio ID number. Are these perhaps non-voice transmissions of some kind, or maybe private calls directly from one radio to another?

In the second window, the green text on the right hand side under "Source", as I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong), typically shows the radio ID of the radio making that particular transmission. For some reason, the Oregon State Police talkgroup doesn't list a radio ID, but rather just "EXTERNAL" and I'm not sure what this means.

In the third window, I've noticed some occasional transmissions on talkgroups that fall within a much higher numerical range than normal (so far between 64000-64999) which are not listed in the database. I've also noticed that all of these talkgroups show their Source as "EXTERNAL", which I described in the paragraph above. If anyone can enlighten me to as to what all this means, it'd definitely help my understanding of how this P25 system works. Thanks!
 

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cinsu

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While using DSD+ to monitor the Portland P25 system, I've noticed a couple of things. Firstly, there are several talkgroups that have been detected (usually with 0 recorded transmission hits) that are not listed in the database. I'll list them below, and if anyone can ID what these talkgroups are, I'd be interested to know:
Talkgroups: 7, 88, 103, 277, 373, 511, 670, 825, 895, 1135, 1139, 1240, 1287, 1317, 1887, 1903, 2245, and 3859. Talkgroup 373 has over thirty hits, meaning a conversation of some kind occurred, a few other talkgroups have one or two hits, which I'm guessing was a momentary key up, and the rest have zero hits but they are seemingly registered as existing on the system.


Secondly, there are some things in DSD+ I'd like to correctly understand, and I've posted 3 screenshots that illustrate what I'm wondering about.
In the first window, there's an example of some transmissions that I occasionally see, which are usually very brief, automatically Locked Out by DSD+, and instead of coming up as a talkgroup (such as in the cyan numbers under "Target") they seem to be coming up as a radio ID number. Are these perhaps non-voice transmissions of some kind, or maybe private calls directly from one radio to another?

In the second window, the green text on the right hand side under "Source", as I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong), typically shows the radio ID of the radio making that particular transmission. For some reason, the Oregon State Police talkgroup doesn't list a radio ID, but rather just "EXTERNAL" and I'm not sure what this means.

In the third window, I've noticed some occasional transmissions on talkgroups that fall within a much higher numerical range than normal (so far between 64000-64999) which are not listed in the database. I've also noticed that all of these talkgroups show their Source as "EXTERNAL", which I described in the paragraph above. If anyone can enlighten me to as to what all this means, it'dm definitely help my understanding of how this P25 system works. Thanks!

I’m really not sure on those unknown talkgroups, I’m not fully familiar with DSD for P25 control channel monitoring but usually you’re not going to see a talkgroup unless somebody affiliates with it. Those could be carried via an ISSI (See below), it could be a misprogrammed radio, or a multitude of other things.

First window: likely data. The system allows for some data to be transmitted from users which you’ll see quite often in unitrunker. Private calls will show a source radio ID and target radio ID. I don’t recall seeing any private calls on this system.

Second window: This talkgroup is patched to the Oregon P25 system. Somebody is monitoring this talkgroup on the Portland system via an affiliated radio which allows the traffic to be heard. You’ll hear the same traffic simulcast on the Oregon P25 system and may or may not see the radio ID there, many Portland units still use the VHF frequency which is also patched thru.

Third window: The Portland P25 system is linked via an Inter-RF Sub System Interface (ISSI) to Clark County WA and Clackamas/Washington County systems. If you check one of those systems I would bet you’ll find a matching talkgroup. I often see Clark County Fire talkgroups carry over to Portland and the other way as well as they often mutual aid.


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cinsu

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For the last week I have been sporadically receiving TG 64116 the traffic has been the same as Clark County FireCom from the CRESA 911 system. Its sporadic so I'm not fully confident in adding it to the database yet.
 

V_A_R_I_A_B_L_E

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A couple of weeks ago I heard traffic on talkgroups 64108, 64116, and 64174 and heard a few terms mentioned "ops 52", "engine 23", "engine 24", and "Ft. Vancouver Way". I wasn't listening today but I have a dedicated computer running DSD+ all the time, in preparation for putting the PPB East feed back up, and according to its logs, there were hits on all three of those talkgroups, plus a few similarly numbered talkgroups as recently as earlier this afternoon.
 

cinsu

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A couple of weeks ago I heard traffic on talkgroups 64108, 64116, and 64174 and heard a few terms mentioned "ops 52", "engine 23", "engine 24", and "Ft. Vancouver Way". I wasn't listening today but I have a dedicated computer running DSD+ all the time, in preparation for putting the PPB East feed back up, and according to its logs, there were hits on all three of those talkgroups, plus a few similarly numbered talkgroups as recently as earlier this afternoon.

Sounds like they must be doing some testing. The question is if it’s only being tested during the day or if there is no affiliated radios when the talk groups aren’t passing thru. Do you recall if the unit IDs are passing thru?

Not sure why they need to patch to a different talkgroup, I’ve seen TG 15404 (Firecom TG on CRESA) roam on the Portland system when Vancouver has responded to assist south of the river before. I’ve also seen PDX Airport police pop up on CRESA fwiw.


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V_A_R_I_A_B_L_E

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No, when I saw them a couple weeks ago, they all listed the source as "EXTERNAL". Not sure what the source was today, as I was out of the house.
 

V_A_R_I_A_B_L_E

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An update, just a little but ago (about 5:30pm) I caught talkgroup 64536 on the Portland system (source was EXTERNAL, no radio ID number) and there was a dispatcher talking with "Medic 1604", they were mentioning that "WSP is on scene" "I-5 mile marker 23", something about an overturned trailer w/no injuries, and "truck 5, engine 5 it'll be on OPS 52". I don't hang out in Washington much but I think mile marker 23 would be somewhere north of Woodland, and I also don't ever monitor Washington nets, but the CRESA P25 system database shows Clark County fire talkgroup 15702 as "Ops 52"...?

This traffic was accidentally put out on the Broadcastify PPB East feed, as it was a new talkgroup and was therefore not on the Lockout list, so if you're curious, you can pull up the feed archive for 25JAN2018, and it'll be the 5:18-5:48PM segment, somewhere between the 6 and 12 minute mark on playback.
 

OregonScanner

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895 is in the DB as Portland Bureau of Water EOC 1
1287 is in the DB as MCSO SIU 2

I've gotten these patch TGs off the West Simulcast:

64030
64034
64042
64052
64060
64066
64068
64076
64116
64122
64216
64274
64352
64380
64384
64388
64420
64442
64492
64536
64544
64560
64576
64626
64632
64882
64938

I'm not sure if each TG is linked to a specific talkgroup. It seems like the patch TG changes every now and then. The WCCCA/CCOM 800 analog system has patch TGs for when WCCCA patches BPD 1, HPD 1, and South Cities 1 together for "City Net" and when they patch an LE talkgroup with Ops 37 for mutual aid. On the WCCCA/CCOM analog system there quite a few patch talkgroups and when the dispatcher activates the patch it is not necessarily the same patch talkgroup every time.

I have also heard a few patch TGs on the WCCCA/CCOM two site P25 system patched to OSP Portland or OSP Banks and each time its a different patch TG but I haven't kept a record of them. A couple of the WCCCA radio techs talkgroups are linked to tech talkgroups on the Portland system and on the state system.
 

ScanRite

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OSP Portland units are not using the 700 digital system yet. All units are still on VHF and are being patched. The EXTERNAL moniker is a unit coming in via IP, such as dispatch panels.
 
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