Possible CSP encryption?

Status
Not open for further replies.

nathancarlson

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
278
Location
Longmont, CO
I have not heard ANY traffic on the CSP (Colorado State Patrol) Tactical channels, even when a unit asks another to go to the tac channel from the dispatch channels. I confirmed I have the correct TGs entered, according to the RR database. Anybody have any ideas? I am hoping they are not encrypted all of the sudden.
 

greenthumb

Colorado DB Administrator
Database Admin
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
1,935
No, the CSP TAC channels are not encrypted. Chances are best that there is not a radio listening to the TAC channel you are wanting to listen to on the tower your scanner is on.
 

dracer777

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
740
Location
South Dacono, CO
Ive always wondered how that works.... I know I'm hijacking the thread, but it seems you already fulfilled the OPs post. So say a CSP officer La plata county(along the south CO border) has his radio on 3C dispatch.... The system knows that and he will hear it? The tower will broadcast that traffic?
 

jimmnn

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 11, 2002
Messages
14,327
Location
Colorado
Yes and just that topic has been covered here at least 101 times, might look back into the archives or wiki's on details how the DTRS system works.

Wanna here LaJunta there is a good online feed for that area and some of those radios often affliate with Cheyenne Mtn CC in the Springs as well.

Jim<
 

GrayJeep

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
931
Location
N. Colo.
I have not heard ANY traffic on the CSP (Colorado State Patrol) Tactical channels, even when a unit asks another to go to the tac channel from the dispatch channels. I confirmed I have the correct TGs entered, according to the RR database. Anybody have any ideas? I am hoping they are not encrypted all of the sudden.
Your location shows Longmont. From there you should be able to hear 3A, 3C, 6C and 1D Tac from Gunbarrel, Horsetooth, Thorodin and possibly other towers.

I've heard them today. They are not encrypted. You probably have a programming error. (happens to me all the time)
 

greenthumb

Colorado DB Administrator
Database Admin
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
1,935
Your location shows Longmont. From there you should be able to hear 3A, 3C, 6C and 1D Tac from Gunbarrel, Horsetooth, Thorodin and possibly other towers.

I've heard them today. They are not encrypted. You probably have a programming error. (happens to me all the time)
But again, that would depend on whether or not a trooper has selected his/her radio selected on one of those TAC talk groups. Given that they are TACs, not everyone has their radio parked on them, so I would bet that not every tower in a troop district would carry all traffic on that troop's TAC.

Here are some resources that explain these concepts:

Motorola Type II SmartZone - The RadioReference Wiki
Trunked Radio Systems - The RadioReference Wiki
 

GrayJeep

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
931
Location
N. Colo.
But again, that would depend on whether or not a trooper has selected his/her radio selected on one of those TAC talk groups. Given that they are TACs, not everyone has their radio parked on them, so I would bet that not every tower in a troop district would carry all traffic on that troop's TAC.
Well, yes. But I've heard them TODAY on TAC channels. Many times. So the troopers are talking there. I'm hearing them. The OP is either not on the right towers or made an error. It's not that the troopers aren't talking ther.
 

greenthumb

Colorado DB Administrator
Database Admin
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
1,935
Well, yes. But I've heard them TODAY on TAC channels. Many times. So the troopers are talking there. I'm hearing them. The OP is either not on the right towers or made an error. It's not that the troopers aren't talking ther.
I am not saying that the troopers are not talking on the TAC channels. What I am saying is that it's possible that no troopers are selected on that particular TAC channel on the particular tower that the OP's scanner is listening to.

The OP could have talk groups programmed wrong too, I can only speculate about exactly what is wrong. However, given how this system works, I pointed out one possibility since he said that he had double checked the programming.
 

GrayJeep

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
931
Location
N. Colo.
I am not saying that the troopers are not talking on the TAC channels. What I am saying is that it's possible that no troopers are selected on that particular TAC channel on the particular tower that the OP's scanner is listening to.
Yes. If he was trying to listen to 2B Tac (for instance) from Longmont - that wouldn't work. He didn't say much about his setup.

A way to figure it out would be to set the Tac channels to Priority in the scanner (if it can do that) so that you wouldn't miss any Tac traffic. Or create a bank solely for Tacs and listen only to that for awhile to prove what's going on.

Since I use my radios for commuting I make CSP channels both Dispatch and Tac for the area I'm driving thru priority so I can follow what they are responding to and how clobbered the roads are from it. The Tac traffic often helps me learn if the road is a total mess of closure or if the accident has been moved to the side and things are just slow.

There is also the trick that sometimes they patch zones together so that you hear traffic on 3A from a 3C trooper. If the trooper were to go to Tac you might expect he'd be on 3A Tac but he might go to 3C Tac.

Anyway, they aren't encrypted (Thank goodness!) and they are using Tac often. OP needs more info.
 

nathancarlson

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
278
Location
Longmont, CO
Thanks! I have my 106 set up by county for the scan lists, with the exception being scan list 1 consists of 3A, 3C, and 6C, since I am in all three counties throughout the day and enjoy listening to them. It is strange that I will hear them on the dispatch channel asking another unit to go to tac, so I don't know why 3A dispatch would be on the Mead tower, and the tac channels on Thorodin. But I will go ahead and change my control frequencies for scan list one with the towers listed above, and hopefully that will solve the problem. Thanks guys!
 

greenthumb

Colorado DB Administrator
Database Admin
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
1,935
I don't know why 3A dispatch would be on the Mead tower, and the tac channels on Thorodin.
That's just one of the "quirks" of the system, from a scanner user's perspective. In order for the system to use the channels most efficiently, it will only bring up a talk group at a site where a radio is selected on that talk group. If no radios are selected on the tac channel on Mead, then the traffic won't be carried on that tower.

Clear as mud? :)
 

GrayJeep

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
931
Location
N. Colo.
Thanks! I have my 106 set up by county for the scan lists, with the exception being scan list 1 consists of 3A, 3C, and 6C, since I am in all three counties throughout the day and enjoy listening to them. It is strange that I will hear them on the dispatch channel asking another unit to go to tac, so I don't know why 3A dispatch would be on the Mead tower, and the tac channels on Thorodin. But I will go ahead and change my control frequencies for scan list one with the towers listed above, and hopefully that will solve the problem. Thanks guys!

I bet the radios/computers are smart enough to know what the shortest route between units is and doesn't carry the traffic on extra towers. Dispatch needs to have all units listening to all others so the dispatch traffic should be carried on many more towers.

Halfpint made some observations about Mead not carrying the same traffic as other Greeley towers.
You might search for some of his older postings.

I get the sense that Mead is a small coverage site. Thorodin and Horsetooth might be good to add to your CC list if you can hear them.I've listened to Gunbarrel extensively and it too is a very small coverage tower.

If you can raise the priority of the Tac channels on your scanner it will help find them when they are in use.
(Pro-106 and 197)

I commute Ft. Collins <-> Boulder so I'm pretty aware of the coverage issues.
 

scanlist

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Messages
2,038
Location
Greeley, CO
The only CSP you will hear on the 700 only sites are 6C and 1D patched (and whatever other TG's are patched to the 6C group at the time) since they are, for now, the only ones with 700 capable radios in the field for the central Boulder and West central Adams county area which is primarily 700 only territory.

Everything else CSP in the area is using 800 only radios. Don't expect to hear 3A, 3C on Gunbarrel, Sunset, Fort Lupton or the Adams simulcast on a normal, not patched to 6C or 1D, basis.

There is very limited CDOT activity on 700 only sites.
 

greenthumb

Colorado DB Administrator
Database Admin
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
1,935
I bet the radios/computers are smart enough to know what the shortest route between units is and doesn't carry the traffic on extra towers. Dispatch needs to have all units listening to all others so the dispatch traffic should be carried on many more towers.
I'm a little confused about what you're saying, but traffic from a talk group is only carried on towers where there is a radio selected on that talk group. Traffic isn't carried on towers "in between" users talking directly to one another. It all gets distributed out through a central point (zone controller).
 

GrayJeep

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
931
Location
N. Colo.
I'm a little confused about what you're saying, but traffic from a talk group is only carried on towers where there is a radio selected on that talk group. Traffic isn't carried on towers "in between" users talking directly to one another. It all gets distributed out through a central point (zone controller).
I'm looking at it from a user's viewpoint. They don't know anything about the towers involved. They just turn the switch to select Dispatch or Tac and press the mic switch and talk. Your answers might be read as the user selecting towers and such but I don't think that's what you meant.

From a design standpoint it would make sense to use minimal towers on Tac. But just because it makes sense to me doesn't mean they do it that way.

(Hearing lots of 3C Tac on Bald Mtn N as they work the wreckage on I-25.)
 

nathancarlson

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
278
Location
Longmont, CO
I went though and re-programmed it all today. Having the counties listed next to the site name in the DB made it MUCH easier, and I am confident that I will have the coverage that I want now. I just have a lot more control channels, but its worth it so I am not missing out on anything. I have heard traffic on the tac channels since doing this. Mead has seem to be the tower with the most hit counts for me when I am at home in Longmont, and its amazing how many different agencies I have heard from those CCs.
 

datainmotion

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
2,268
Location
Colorado
Don't forget VHF

And of course don't forget that the VHF radios exist in most CSP cars still. They may be using the "old" Tac channels as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top