Possibly to program XTS3000 model 1 to not affiliate?

[wolverine]

Is it possibly to program a XTS3000 model 1 radio to receive and follow digital APCO-25 talkgroups on a 3600 baud trunked system without the
radio affiliating with the system and if so, how do i go about doing it.
Also can it be programmed to do rx only. Thanks.

 

[MAC_FM]

Wolverine,

It is possible to program to Receive only and you can program the unit to affilate on PTT which will just listen. Just be sure not to key the radio.

Apco25 is 9600 baud not 3600

 

[PJH]

You cannot monitor a 9600bps system with a Motorola Astro radio without it affilating.

You CAN do it with a 3600bps system. Here is a quick way how to:
Set the system coverage as "none" or Type II
Set affiate as PTT
Assign the TRS to a zone or channel that you cannot put your radio onto...such has channels 17,18,19 etc. Your channel knob will only work to 16 anyways.

Put the TRS in a scan list via the programming software. Remember, with trunked radios you can only scan 10 talkgroups at a time, no more, no way around it.

This is the safest meathod to be used, but not fool proof.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT PROGRAMMING A RADIO, AND SPECIFICALLY A TRUNKED RADIO - DO NOT ATTEMPT!
Get a scanner. Does more, and can't get you into trouble.

Programming in information that is incorrect into a radio can SERIOUSLY screw up the system if your radio tries or starts to talk to the TRS. As an FYI, some systems have polling in place. What it does is send out a command that has each radio listening to the system to transmit an ACK back the controller. Aside from pulling the transmitter, your radio will xmit. When the controller see's your radio not being valid, it will send a kill command and put your radio asleep. The only way around it is to send it to motorola to "wake" it back up, and they won't do it without a letter from the agency to unkill it (which isn't going to happen).

Motorola radios do not have a "recieve only" option when it comes to trunked radios.

 

[INDY72]

This applies to Motorola only-

APCO-25 first phase is 3600 type systems ( Type II ASTRO *IMBE* Smart Zone/Smartnet etc...), and yess in the RSS a XTS3000 can be programmed to not affiliate, and to not TX. On a 9600 system, its as far as I know impossible to just monitor with a radio, they have special security protocols that prevent a non affiliated radio form even monitoring the system. On the 9600 systems, (ASTRO 25 ) for just monitoring your better off with a digital scanner.

On the ASTRO 25 systems, perhaps I am wrong, but I do believe that the system queries regularly all radios that are on the system.

 

[PJH]

Yup, that's what I said....Motorola

Astro25 radio's REQUIRE affiliation to the system, but I don't think that the standard requires it. This was done to keep whackers and non-authorized persons off the system and general security etc. And its just common sense.

Also all new high tier Motorola radios starting with the Astro Spectra+ no longer have the option of Affilate on PTT. Its all or nothing, and if you don't select Auto, it won't let you program the system.

 

[srm9030]

Actually, Jedi radios do have a TX disable option, that while activated will prevent all transmission. You assign it to a menu option, but you need to activate it while in a conventional mode before switching to a trunked mode. The idea is to prevent the radio transmitting and causing an explosion while being used by firefighters etc in an explosive atmosphere.

I'm not sure if this applies to any of the ASTRO radios.

 

[PJH]

Astro's DO NOT have that option, or any other trunked radio.The TX inhibit does NOT inhibit all radio TX funitions (like an OSW) as it applies to a trunked system. This has already been proven. TXINHIBIT is a conventional option. Pressing the button on a conventional mode and swtiching to at a trunked mode has no effect.

The point is that you do not want the radio to TX at all. In a trunked system, the PTT may be disabled, but there are still system commands in the radio's firmware that, when the radio hears the proper command from the system controller, it will TX a response, and you would'nt know about it visually.

The idea is to prevent the radio transmitting and causing an explosion while being used by firefighters etc in an explosive atmosphere.

Are you saying that trunked radios are more explosive than conventional ones?

That's why certain radio models are manufactured to be "Intrinsically Safe" as long as the user uses approved batteries/acceories etc. Those are typically the ones ordered by the FD and DEP Hazmat crews.

 

[mikewazowski]

Gotta agree with PJH on this one.

On certain models, TX INHIBIT only restricts your use of the PTT function. Various radio functions such as affiliation and deaffiliation will still transmit.

Even though you cannot transmit on a talkgroup, your radio will still show up as affiliating to the talkgroup. It would even ack a radio inhibit command sent on the control channel.

Anybody dealing with hazmat situations will order the proper radio and accessories. Only a fool would rely on a user to enable or disable a function in a potentially dangerous situation. One forgetful firefighter wandering into a building with PTT enabled could take a whole crew out. You would also have no communications with anybody inside the building since all radios would be PTT disabled.

 

[Hoseman292]

Gotta agree with PJH on this one.

On certain models, TX INHIBIT only restricts your use of the PTT function. Various radio functions such as affiliation and deaffiliation will still transmit.

Even though you cannot transmit on a talkgroup, your radio will still show up as affiliating to the talkgroup. It would even ack a radio inhibit command sent on the control channel.

Anybody dealing with hazmat situations will order the proper radio and accessories. Only a fool would rely on a user to enable or disable a function in a potentially dangerous situation. One forgetful firefighter wandering into a building with PTT enabled could take a whole crew out. You would also have no communications with anybody inside the building since all radios would be PTT disabled.

I'm assigned to a fire department hazmat team. When we're operating in explosive/toxic atmospheres, we wear Level A encapsulated suits. We dress WITH our radios (XTS3000's) inside the suits where the atmosphere is stable.
Good questions though.
Tim

 

[dhutsell]

This applies to Motorola only-

APCO-25 first phase is 3600 type systems ( Type II ASTRO *IMBE* Smart Zone/Smartnet etc...), and yess in the RSS a XTS3000 can be programmed to not affiliate, and to not TX. On a 9600 system, its as far as I know impossible to just monitor with a radio, they have special security protocols that prevent a non affiliated radio form even monitoring the system. On the 9600 systems, (ASTRO 25 ) for just monitoring your better off with a digital scanner.

On the ASTRO 25 systems, perhaps I am wrong, but I do believe that the system queries regularly all radios that are on the system.

Thats if the sytem is set up to poll all users. Many arent the reason being that there are som many radios and new users come and go all the time and new and old radios dont get keyed into the database in a timley matter so the communications coordinator keeps the database unsecure similar to a non digital trunked system. Just because these systems have the capability to be very secure doesnt mean every agency uses all the features of the system.

 

[PJH]

You would be suprised at how many systems now have reconstructed their databases, and have even put restrictions on talkgroup settings. There have been some informational bulletins from Motorola that have strongly suggested this.

It didn't help when Dulca flooded the market with all his SmartZone capable radios.

 

[wavetar]

Astro's DO NOT have that option, or any other trunked radio.The TX inhibit does NOT inhibit all radio TX funitions (like an OSW) as it applies to a trunked system. This has already been proven. TXINHIBIT is a conventional option. Pressing the button on a conventional mode and swtiching to at a trunked mode has no effect.

Actually, this is not true. See the following link to this thread on Batlabs where I performed many experiments with both XTS3000 & MTS2000 radios, both using the TX INHIBIT feature on the 2-position concentric switch.

http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=30642&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

The radio would not transmit in any way, shape, or form...including affiliation/deaffiliation upon power on/off or channel change. It does truly seem to inhibit the TX. However, it causes other issues which can cause the radio to not scan the talkgroups properly.

Todd

 

[WayneH]

I've mentioned it on Batlabs and I will again. Certain older versions of firmware allowed you to completely inhibit all transmissions on a SmartZone system. I used to use it with an XTS3000 on the San Diego County RCS. I would know damn well if it was affiliating given the tools I have available. I still have the radio and it gives the following info...

R 4.01.02
DSP 6.03.01

-Wayne

 

[wavetar]

Actually, the HOST/DSP versions I used in the experiments were much newer, and they also allowed complete TX INHIBIT functionality in the XTS3000.

Radio 1 - HOST 07.06.01 - DSP - 07.03.19

Radio 2 - HOST 07.20.00 - DSP - 08.03.02

 

[WayneH]

Yeah, I agree, I could have sworn I was able to use TX Inhibit with a UHF XTS with newer firmware similar to yours.

-Wayne