Post-V2 Update Performance for BCD396T and BCD996T

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cellphone

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It seems there are still some major issues with decoding P25 on simulcast systems. I have testing my BCD396T on numerous P25 systems in the Phoenix area. I have noticed much better decoding on SmartZone multi-site systems like the Maricopa County system (http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=848) and on other single site systems like the City of Glendale (http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=798) and Luke Airforce Base(http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=1482). However there has been no improvement on the Phoenix Regional Wireless Network Simulcast System (http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2508).

I have monitored all of the simulcast sites on the PRWN and I am still having issues with decoding the system. I have seen numerous posts in other Arizona forums with users that are still experiencing issues decoding this system. I am concerned that there is still an issue with BCD396T in decoding simulcast P25 systems. It seems that if the radio is in range of more than one of the simulcast towers, it is not able to properly handle decoding the system. However, if you obtain a very strong signal off one tower by pointing a directional antenna at one tower, it is able to better decode the system.

I have tried my BCD396T from numerous locations within PRWN simulcast A (system site 201), C (system site 202), and D (system site 301) sites in the Phoenix-Mesa system. Signal strength is always good, decoded audio quality is always poor.

I have also used the BCD396T on the Omaha Regional Interoperability Network (http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2361) which is a similar simulcast system on system site 101. Decoding quality was very similar on this system.

It appears that the BCD396T is not properly handling P25 simulcast systems, I urge Uniden engineers to do some more thorough and advanced testing on P25 simulcast systems. From what I have read on other forums, the new GRE scanners do a MUCH better job decoding P25 simulcast systems.

Best Regards,

Joe Badura
 

Dewey

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rescue161 said:
That's strange as I had no issues with that system at all this past week. I was only on the 460 MHz trunked side though.

That's exactly what I was monitoring, DC PD... all while siting in HQ.

Dewey
 

rescue161

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Strange. I was sitting on Anacostia Naval Annex and never had an issue. Kind of wish I had more time to monitor other systems, but was glad to leave. DC is not my favorite choice.

Dewey said:
That's exactly what I was monitoring, DC PD... all while siting in HQ.

Dewey
 

ERICMYERS

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JStemann said:
Not exactly on topic but, the problem you're having with importing the will co. edacs sounds like you might have the "cc only" box checked at the bottom of the import page. I'm pretty sure you need to uncheck that for the edacs systems.

jeffs s.

Yep, you're right on all counts. THANKS!
Eric
 

JonHanson

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Dregredation in P25 decode quality on Phoenix system

I listen to the Gilbert Police and Fire who are on the Phoenix Regional Wireless Network. The tower I listen to is a couple of miles from my house and I have a discone antenna in the attic. The control channel comes in full strength. I have both a 396 and a 996 and successfully applied the V2 firmware to both.

I've noticed that since the upgrade happened that some P25 transmissions for Gilbert will be really choppy to the point where they are unintelligible. It doesn't happen all the time and previous to the firmware update there were no issues decoding the transmissions at all.

Is there a way to troubleshoot this or are we just figuring out how the firmware is performing on the various systems right now?

My 996 has version 2.00.06. My 396 has version 2.00.07.
 
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Viper43

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P25 Timing as mentioned in the PDF with the firmware update...read the the PDF.
 

JonHanson

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Viper43 said:
P25 Timing as mentioned in the PDF with the firmware update...read the the PDF.

I'm not seeing any PDF in either the firmware package that was downloaded or the UPman's update that's on Uniden's website.
 

Jay911

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This is the pdf...

myuniden.jpg
 

JonHanson

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Viper43 said:
P25 Timing as mentioned in the PDF with the firmware update...read the the PDF.

That feature appears to be for the false decode problem, which I am not having. I'm getting a sort of good decode that usually degrades into unintelligible audio. How does the P25 timing feature help with this? I have it set to 0 ms but I'm still getting the occasional choppy, un-readable signal but not all the time.
 

cellphone

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Jon and Viper43,

P25 timing does not apply to a pure P25 system like the Phoenix Regional Wireless Network. This setting only applies to mixed mode systems. Adjusting this setting will not have an affect on the PRWN system.

Cheers,

Joe Badura
 

N4DXX

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timjude said:
Just applied the update's to my 996t..Fantastic is all i can say.The volume is now outstanding compared to the old firmware version's..I have listened for 2 hours or so and not one digital sound..No more machine gunning here even on the weakest signals i am getting loud clear decoded audio,This is like getting out of a pinto into a hummer.I never in my dreams thought this scanner could ever match my psr 600 well i can now say that.I have been running them side by side and the uniden is holding it's own thus far..I am very impressed..Even with the digital agc off it's still as good as the psr..And i am so sorry that so many other system's are having issues i wish all of you could be as happy as me with the update.And i do hope you get the results you want with new firmware releases but mine will stay where it's at because this did it for the system i monitor..
Man i just can't get over how much better this scanner is on the system i monitor i updated it yesterday and i still have not heard the first machine gunning and I'll say the digital audio now surpasses the gre,Why you may ask..Because the digital volume is loud and clear with no background noise at all,My 2096 is great and so is the gre but both of them have a lot of noise in the audio and the 996t does not just the voice..And i get the best audio even with 1 bar on the signal meter and there is no way that ever happened before.I know some are still having issues That's not good but i am one happy camper with this last update..
 

Viper43

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Glad to hear that timjude, Good thing though you didn't follow your own advice in your signature : If at first you don't succeed do yourself a favor,Give up. Or you'd still be listening to scratchy noisy transmissions!

V
 

N4DXX

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Viper43 said:
Glad to hear that timjude, Good thing though you didn't follow your own advice in your signature : If at first you don't succeed do yourself a favor,Give up. Or you'd still be listening to scratchy noisy transmissions!

V
Yea i started to do just that..But winzip was my problem...lol Not the update..Now i will be afraid to load future updates in fear of them screwing something up..
 
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loumaag

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P25 Simulcast & 396T Reception

Obviously several issues were addressed with the Version 2 firmware update. I would like to address only the Project 25, simulcast reception issue in this post.

It appears to me, after reading all of the posts here that there are mixed results and it appears that the results are consistent by TRS involved. That is, we have reports from more than one user that listening to the Phoenix area PRWN is problematic. In one report from Jon_Hanson in this thread, he posts as if previous to the update he had less issues than he does now. I do not have a Project 25 simulcast system here in the Houston area; however, I spent the weekend after the update came out in the New Orleans area and subjected the radio to a lot of listening on the LATIE simulcast site 201 (Metro NO North). I can tell you that before the update (on previous trips there) that this site was completely unreadable with my BCD396T. In fact it sounded a lot like my Pro-96 still does (when able to actually follow an communication (IOW no 700 MHz involved)). After the update, although there is still some chop/drop, each communication is still completely understandable (although admittedly not 100% smooth.) A trip through this thread (and others) will show a similar disparity of results; this leads to the question as to why the differences in reports?

Lets think of this using the following points, if anyone can add points please do so:
  • I think that the first point to consider is does the radio perform better or worse on the same simulcast sites before or after the update. Again (for those of you reading this in normal everyday mode :) ), please remember I am only talking about Project 25 simulcast sites.
  • The next thing to consider is how do the actual users seem to perceive the system as working? Where I am heading with this is that simulcasting is a very timing sensitive issue and a digital (P25 CAI) signal is much more prone to timing problems than an analog signal. So, if you often hear the dispatcher or the units asking for a repeat, one has to assume that the engineers (for that system) have not quite got that down exactly yet. I know that in the limited listening time I had in the NOLA area (the weekend about 8 or 10 hours each day) I never once noticed a dispatcher or user ask for a repeat.
  • Is a non-simulcast site, carrying the same traffic, available to compare? When I was in NOLA, there were a couple of sites that I could use (Dwntown New Orleans and Bridge City) that carried some of the traffic consistently that the simulcast site was carrying. This allowed me to check the relative differences in reception between simulcast and single site on the same channel (obviously I understand that different repeaters would be different, but console microphones and individual users would be the same). The only thing I could not do, is monitor the same traffic simultaneously since I did not have two 396's with me. However, my results were that although the single site signal was much smoother (no chop/drop) the communication on the simulcast site was still understandable. I did play a bit with the P25 AGC settings; however, I was not able to draw any conclusions from the differences in settings.
Where does this leave us? Well, to some, the update was a blessing and solution. To some (again only considering simulcast P25 systems) it is no better or maybe worse (I am unclear on this). Since we know that his thread is a pipeline to Uniden, and that well thought out and non-heated posts are at least not disregarded outright, I think that if we post specific observations as cellphone, Jon_Hanson, and others have done, we (and Uniden by extension) may get a better understanding of the issues involved.
 

CitationJet

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HOLD button + audio cut out

Posting this mainly to complain about something I've discovered after upgrading the BCD396T firmware to v2 - monitoring VHF and UHF aeronautical only in AM mode here: when I hit the HOLD button, the audio cuts out for about a second before returning! Never noticed this before upgrading, so unless this is a technical problem with my radio all of a sudden, this is going to be a major BLOCKER for me as, gee guess what gets cut out most of the time? Aircraft IDs, QSYs...8-(

Is anyone else experiencing same?
 

W2SJW

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CitationJet said:
Thanks but tried both Default and Manual and both had no effect.

That's not a valid setting choice for the P25 wait time.

Power up your scanner while holding down the HOLD key. Notice the different-sounding power-up beep.

Hit MENU on the side of the scanner, and scroll down to 'Settings'. Enter that group.

Scroll down until you see 'P25 Waiting Time'. Enter that setting.

If it's set at 400ms, drop it down to 200ms & hit enter. Reboot the scanner normally & try your tests again... ;)
 

CitationJet

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Re: HOLD + audio issue

Scott, UPMan,

Thank you both for your help with this issue. If I had understood what UPMan was referring to in his post, I would have seen that the setting I was changing wasn't the right one...:cool:)

Followed your instructions as below and set it to 0 ms, and all my aeronautical xmsns are now perfect with HOLD engaged.

Again, many thanks to both of you for your assistance with this!

Best regards,

Tony

W2SJW said:
That's not a valid setting choice for the P25 wait time.

Power up your scanner while holding down the HOLD key. Notice the different-sounding power-up beep.

Hit MENU on the side of the scanner, and scroll down to 'Settings'. Enter that group.

Scroll down until you see 'P25 Waiting Time'. Enter that setting.

If it's set at 400ms, drop it down to 200ms & hit enter. Reboot the scanner normally & try your tests again... ;)
 

918Dave

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RE: P25 Simulcast & 396T Reception

I think that the first point to consider is does the radio perform better or worse on the same simulcast sites before or after the update.


My reception of the Phx PRWN system is no better after performing the updates to either
radio.
 
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