Private LMR and Off the Grid Use?

[Trinity-Explorations]

We are looking to build a private system for a program that we are developing, we currently are not ready to file FCC Paper work, but looking to recommendations on what we should look for in a private LMR System.

We are looking to cover a few sites not to far from each other, we are in a land agreement in texas and the land we are working on is about a mile and a 1/4 away from each other,

We would like something better than analog, so we have been talking about P25 or TRBO systems,
As we would like to transmit short range data and also utilize GPS Capabilities to track movements of vehicles and radio users with portable equipment.

We would also like a system that may have other control options such as CCTV tie in's and Access control for door and security control,

But the biggest thing we have to challenge is a system that can work with solar and wind power energy.
Is this possible to operate a radio system that can be used with alternative energy sources?

Utilizing an IP Infrastructure is also a big plus.

does anyone have any advice as to what can be implemented as a Private LMR system?

 

[kent11]

check out this site. (use firefox)
www.tacticalrepeater.com

 

[mmckenna]

Unless you have stacks of money laying about, you probably don't want to go P25. I just bought at Kenwood 700-800MHz P25 portable and it ran $1800 each.

MotoTrbo would be much cheaper, likely $600-800 per radio.

Kenwood NexEdge or Icom IDAS will do all you want at a lower price.

I'm running a 5 channel trunked NexEdge system on 800MHz, and we paid less than $500 for the radios (not including battery, charger or antenna), and a bit over $600 for complete radio packages.

NexEdge or IDAS will do IP connectivity between repeaters, GPS location from radios, encryption, etc.
Kenwood sells a video camera adapter that will transmit still images over the system.

Powering everything off wind or solar isn't an issue. You just need to design your system correctly. Having enough power generating capability, storage capacity (you want it to work at night) balanced against your RF power needs. Running less power will mean less drain on your generating system.

You shouldn't need much to cover that amount of area.

 

[JRayfield]

One big advantage that MOTOTRBO has over the other digital systems on the market, is the Application Developer's Program (ADP). This is a program that allows 3rd party companies to develop hardware and software for the MOTOTRBO platform. There are around 60 or so applications of various types currently available to work with MOTOTRBO systems and there are new applications coming out all the time. No other manufacturer of digital systems has a program like this.

Doing CCTV over any private land mobile radio system is not going to be possible. That takes way more bandwidth than what's available in any private land mobile digital system. However, controlling doors, etc. can be done with the telemetry capability that is standard in most MOTOTRBO subscriber units (mobiles and portables).

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

We are looking to build a private system for a program that we are developing, we currently are not ready to file FCC Paper work, but looking to recommendations on what we should look for in a private LMR System.

We are looking to cover a few sites not to far from each other, we are in a land agreement in texas and the land we are working on is about a mile and a 1/4 away from each other,

We would like something better than analog, so we have been talking about P25 or TRBO systems,
As we would like to transmit short range data and also utilize GPS Capabilities to track movements of vehicles and radio users with portable equipment.

We would also like a system that may have other control options such as CCTV tie in's and Access control for door and security control,

But the biggest thing we have to challenge is a system that can work with solar and wind power energy.
Is this possible to operate a radio system that can be used with alternative energy sources?

Utilizing an IP Infrastructure is also a big plus.

does anyone have any advice as to what can be implemented as a Private LMR system?

 

[mmckenna]

Doing CCTV over any private land mobile radio system is not going to be possible.

Motorola may not approve, but it can be done. Obviously not in full motion:
http://nexedge.kenwood.com/Data/pdf/km/wireless_image_cata.pdf

Of course, Motorola sales guys probably won't want you to know about the 10 watt limit on VHF MotoTrbo systems due to it causing interference on co-channel systems. Not sure if they've worked out that issue yet.
So you'd have to do UHF, but 10 watts may be enough to cover what you want.

 

[JRayfield]

That video system is not a CCTV system. Basically, it's a form of slow-scan tv.

The 10 watt limit was on VHF public safety frequencies only. There were two reasons - 1. Use of GPS on a system using frequencies that were shared and the systems were set up to transmit too much data too often. This resulted in 'not sharing' the frequencies, in effect. That's a big 'no no' on any system. 2. MOTOTRBO systems have much better range, given the same power output and antenna systems, as compared to analog systems (and apparently other digital systems, too, since DMR was the only digital mode involved with this situation). Last I heard, the coordinators had worked out a solution to the 'extended range' problem. Actually, MOTOTRBO systems don't need a lot of power to get good coverage.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Motorola may not approve, but it can be done. Obviously not in full motion:
http://nexedge.kenwood.com/Data/pdf/km/wireless_image_cata.pdf

Of course, Motorola sales guys probably won't want you to know about the 10 watt limit on VHF MotoTrbo systems due to it causing interference on co-channel systems. Not sure if they've worked out that issue yet.
So you'd have to do UHF, but 10 watts may be enough to cover what you want.