Pro-106 object numbering ?

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garikfox

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Why does it store to first 0019, then as I add ID's it goes like 0065,0038 etc..

I'm assuming its just filling the mem bank as necc.

Anyone know why it does this ?
 

hcpholder

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Object Numbering!

I was wondering the same thing, when my 106 started numbering at 892. It is due to the V-folder programming. I have "deleted" most all of my "pre-programmed" V-folder information. Once you do then you can go in and "renumber" your objects. I have not setup any additional TSYS objects, so I can do that. I'm not sure if this can be done if you have used any of the objects in other "lists"!
 

hcpholder

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Another number related question.

Isn't the whole "object numbering" scheme supposed to keep you from "re-entering" an object again? I took "one system" and entered "all" of the reported TGID's for my area into the 106 over the weekend. Now, if I understood the theory correctly, I can "copy" a "specific TGID" to another "scan list", and that TGID will have the "same object number" as the original entry, no matter how many "scan lists" you place it in. Now, if for whatever reason you "delete" the "original object ID" it will "deleve" that "object" from "any other scan lists" that it resides in. Is that Right?

For that reason would you want to enter a "duplicate TGID" with a "different object number ID" in another "scan list" to keep this from happening? Trying to 'get hold of the concept".
 

rdale

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I'm lost... Object ID's don't matter. Don't worry about why they are where they are. If you want to set a specific ID, use software.
 

mikey60

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Another number related question.

Isn't the whole "object numbering" scheme supposed to keep you from "re-entering" an object again? I took "one system" and entered "all" of the reported TGID's for my area into the 106 over the weekend. Now, if I understood the theory correctly, I can "copy" a "specific TGID" to another "scan list", and that TGID will have the "same object number" as the original entry, no matter how many "scan lists" you place it in. Now, if for whatever reason you "delete" the "original object ID" it will "deleve" that "object" from "any other scan lists" that it resides in. Is that Right?

For that reason would you want to enter a "duplicate TGID" with a "different object number ID" in another "scan list" to keep this from happening? Trying to 'get hold of the concept".

You don't have to copy the TGID to a new object to place it in another scan list. Edit the existing Object, and add the scan lists you want to that. A single object can be a member of any or all scan lists as needed.

Mike
 

mikey60

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Why does it store to first 0019, then as I add ID's it goes like 0065,0038 etc..

I'm assuming its just filling the mem bank as necc.

Anyone know why it does this ?

Where the object is placed is dependant on what is or was in the current memory image before you started. The scanner will attempt to not re-use an object ID until all previously unused object IDs have been used, at which point it will start to reuse them as needed until all are gone.

If you really want new objects to start at object ID 0 (which is the first spot), reset the scanner to factory defaults and start from there. You'll want to save your current configuration before you reset it, either to a V-Scanner folder, or computer as the reset procedure will clear working memory.

To clear the working memory, turn the scanner off, then on, and while the welcome message is being displayed, press the number 0, followed by the number 1, and finally the ENT key. You'll be prompted to press a key twice during the reset to confirm that everything has been set back to defaults.

Mike
 

DonS

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Where the object is placed is dependant on what is or was in the current memory image before you started. The scanner will attempt to not re-use an object ID until all previously unused object IDs have been used, at which point it will start to reuse them as needed until all are gone.
Well... sorta...

When the scanner creates a new object in memory (PGM NEW, PGM EDIT DUPE, etc.), it searches for an ObjectID to use for that new object. It starts searching at the last ObjectID used for creating a new object, looks from there up to 1851 (maximum ObjectID value), then wraps to zero (minimum ObjectID value).

So... if you had already used up ObjectIDs 0-9 for a Mot TSYS, plus 10-59 for 50 TGRP objects, the radio would start "new object" assignment starting at ObjectID 60 - presuming you'd either a) done a 0-1 Init as described by Mike above and uploaded from software or b) started with an "empty" scanner (0-1 init or factory state) and programmed all the existing objects by hand (those would both "reset" the "last used" ObjectID to 0, so the next available ID would be 60).

Continuing the above example... presume you created a new CONV object and it was assigned ObjectID 60 as described above. Then you go and delete the TSYS at ObjectID 0 (along with all of its TGRPs 10-59). If you now create a new object, it will be assigned ObjectID 61 - not 0. This is because the scanner remembers that the last assigned ID was 60, and starts looking for new, free IDs from that point.

The scanner does this to "spread out" writes to its internal memory. Flash memory devices have a finite number of write cycles before they start failing, and cycling through all possible ObjectID values helps minimize this effect.
 

DonS

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I'm lost... Object ID's don't matter. Don't worry about why they are where they are. If you want to set a specific ID, use software.

Yes, you can use external software to assign each object a specific ID.

However, I disagree that the assigned ObjectIDs "don't matter". I've suggested a few times that people can use software to assign all of their trunked system (TSYS) objects specific 2-digit IDs. They can then lock/unlock entire trunking systems via a relatively short key sequence: MAN x y ENTER L/OUT, where <x> and <y> are the 00-99 ID of the TSYS. This is one way to get around the "limitation" of only 20 Scan Lists... the Scan Lists can represent "types" of agencies (e.g. Fire, Police, Aircraft, Military, etc.), while enabling/disabling entire agencies can be done by unlocking/locking a TSYS. (Yes, this only works for trunked systems, not conventional frequencies).
 

MStep

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I have to agree Don that I think that object IDs can play an important role in setting up the radio for maximum flexibility. When I jump to a particular object number, it would be nice to have similar objects placed sequentially above or below so that you can just manually "step through" a group of local police or fire frequencies (or whatever), rather than having to hunt around for them. Of course there are several ways to accomplish the same end, but it is always nice to have a radio which is more "user-friendly".
 

StinkyB

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I used Win500 to reassign all my object ID's, just highlighted all objects in the all objects tab, and clicked on Edit-Reassign Object IDs,(leave default, and click OK) BAM! all nice and neat in numerical order. BUT you must put all of your oblects in order you want them before doing this, don't worry about the object#, just the order you want your objects in, I kept all my scan lists together. It will put all your TSYS at the top of the list.
 
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MStep

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Right on the money StinkyB-- your suggestion for renumbering with Win500 really kicks butt !!!!!
 

ion_op

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Pre-programmed V-folders

I was wondering the same thing, when my 106 started numbering at 892. It is due to the V-folder programming. I have "deleted" most all of my "pre-programmed" V-folder information. Once you do then you can go in and "renumber" your objects. I have not setup any additional TSYS objects, so I can do that. I'm not sure if this can be done if you have used any of the objects in other "lists"!

If you delete the pre-programmed V-folders can they be recovered or are the gone forever? Does it really matter if they are in numerical order or not?

Mike
 

pratzert

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If you delete the pre-programmed V-folders can they be recovered or are the gone forever? Does it really matter if they are in numerical order or not?

Mike

I don't know if they would be gone forever.... I backed them up by loading them into my working memory and uploading them to the Win500 program and then saving them as Factory V-Scanner folders with the same numbering convention... ie VS-1, VS-2, VS-3 etc.

I had actually done a "Hard Reset" of the 106 too, but the V-Scanner folders were still there even after a master reset.

I guess they must be stored in some sort of PROM chip and "may" be permament, or at least a hard/master reset does not wipe them out.

Perhaps if you tried to load your own V-Scanner folders into the place they are stored, it would overwrite them... but I am not experienced enough or knowledgable enough to know this... yet.

Perhaps somehone like DonS can offer up some knowledge of how and where the Factory V-Scanner folders are and "if" they can be overwritten... which is what I suspect can be done.

Tim
 

Forts

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Object ID's are nice to know if you are in a hurry too. For example with my Pro-96 I could be scanning several banks of frequencies but I always knew the local PD was channel 100. If something was going on, MAN 100 E and I was there. With my new Pro-106 I need to know the specific Object ID so I can hop to it in a hurry if I want to. I've also programmed a few high priority channels (local PD, FD etc) into the FAV scanlist.
 

RoninJoliet

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Saving your "Workpad" to a unused "V-Folder is just like the PRO96....You program all your "Objects" into the "Workpad" (original part of the scanner), then you pick out a V-Folder that you may never use or need....Then go into the V-Folder operation, "stor" your "Workpad" (its "00")into the V-Folder you picked ex:VF-17, then "load" your "Workpad" (00) back into the working memory....Your "Workpad" is still un-disturbed and is now in (2) places, "working memory of the scanner and in "VF-17"...Now if you make changes or add to your working memory you can do the same procedure and it will add your changes to the "VF-17 in the future....In case your scanner working memory is ever "erased", your VF-17 is ALWAYS in tact....What a neat scanner....Ron in Joliet....PS: Thank You "poster "FMON" for teaching me this along time ago for my PRO96....
 

hcpholder

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Ok, I i setup a system in "scan list 1" that contains every known TGID in the system (207 of them). Now if I understand this correctly, if I wish to use one of these TGID's in another "scan list" all I have to do is "click" tne additional "scan list" checkbox" and the TGID is available in that "scan list" also.

However, if I "lock out" the TGID in "scan list 1" it also "locks out" the TGID in the additional "scan lists". How is this beneficial to having an object only listed "once" in the scanner? The only way aroudn this is to "create the same TGID" with a different "object ID". Is this not correct?
 

rdale

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However, if I "lock out" the TGID in "scan list 1" it also "locks out" the TGID in the additional "scan lists". How is this beneficial to having an object only listed "once" in the scanner?

Why are you locking it out of SL1? You clearly want to hear it, so don't lock it out and you're okay? Maybe an explainer of how you want to use would help.

I have all my fire dispatch talkgroups in SL1, then duplicate them in SL2 and add all fire tac channels to SL2. So if I just want to hear dispatch, I turn off SL2, if I want dispatch and TAC, I turn off SL1.
 
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