Pro-164 rebanding question

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mokpt

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I have been using a Pro-97. I live in Kingsport, TN. As of a couple days ago Sullivan county (where I live) went quiet when using trunking. I can still hear EVERYTHING if I turn trunking off. I assume it has been re-banded. Any way to confirm this? I got a Pro-164, updated it to firmware 1.07. I went thru Win97 and changed the trunked banks to "rebanded" and I'm still not getting anything. Some places I hear the Pro-164 does work and other places say it does not work for rebanded systems. Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks
 

ka3jjz

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My first thought: Do you have all of the control channels (CC) in the 164? If the system doesn't have any alternate CCs listed (they would be in blue, as opposed to the primary CC, which is red), then you really don't have much of a choice - you would need to program all channels, and note when another CC is in use (since the 164 doesn't support logging operations). You should, at least, have all the red (primary) frequencies programmed.

I'd post a question in the Tennessee forum and see what gives. 73 Mike
 
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KC5EIB

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If you go to the manual mode and step through the frequencies, do you hear the current control channel?

Are all 4 of the control channels programed in as MO and not locked out?
 

kcvanover

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Did it work before you updated the firmware? I had trouble with my 164 after I updated the firmware.
I had to add .025 to each frequency to make it track local EDACS.
 

mokpt

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First, thank you guys for the reply. I'm trying to learn about the rebanding, but I'm just now learning about it. I have a friend that works for the Sheriffs office and he's going to ask their radio guy exactly what they did. All three of my scanners are doing the same thing so that should rule out an accidental reprogramming error.

I will check, and find out from my friend if there are any new channels.

I just have the same frequencies and trunk codes programed in as before. There were 10 channels on the trunk system. They are not locked out, and I do hear transmissions on them in manual mode.

The Pro-164 did not work before the 1.07 update. Do you add the .025 on the Pro-164? Or will that work on my old Pro-95? What I'm reading says the 95 is now a paperweight except for listing to non rebanded systems.
 

DonS

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Looking at the RR DB page for the Sullivan County, TN system, the frequencies don't indicate that it's been "rebanded". That is, none of the 18 listed frequencies require the Motorola "rebanded" bandplan.

As asked above, when you step through the frequencies in MAN mode, do you hear a control channel?
 
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I have a PRO-164 also and as of this morning, my Sullivan County trunking was working okay. Make sure you have control channel 859.2625 - that seems to be the primary control - programmed and the bank set to type MOT.

I've attached (I hope) a pic of the settings from PSREdit300.
 

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mokpt

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ok I'll give that a try. I also have gotten nothing in Johnson City for several months. Is "Project 25" the same as "rebanding"?
 

mokpt

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DonS: I guess I don't understand "control channel" as I step threw in MAN mode I just hear transmissions from time to time.
 

ka3jjz

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ok I'll give that a try. I also have gotten nothing in Johnson City for several months. Is "Project 25" the same as "rebanding"?
No, they're quite different. One describes a type of trunk, the other a very important action on how a trunk system's frequencies are allocated and how it works internally.

These are entries from our glossary. All links are in blue. On the first link, just read the overview..

Project 25 - The RadioReference Wiki

Rebanding - The RadioReference Wiki

The PRO-164 is not capable of receiving Project 25 signals. You need a digital trunktracker for that.

73 Mike
 

DonS

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DonS: I guess I don't understand "control channel" as I step threw in MAN mode I just hear transmissions from time to time.
The control channel is a data channel that the scanner needs in order to "track" the trunked system. Without it, you'll get the behavior you describe: you hear voice traffic in MAN mode, but nothing while scanning.

A Motorola control channel would sound similar to this sample.

If, while stepping through all of the bank's channels in MAN mode, you don't hear such a sound (or, if you do hear it but the channel is either locked out or not set to MO), then the scanner won't track the system in SCAN mode. You'll need to ensure that you have the control channel programmed, set to MO, and not locked out.

According to the RR database, there are 4 control channels for the Sullivan County, TN system. Only one will be active at a time, but you should program all of the frequencies that are listed in red, in case the system cycles through the available CCs. One of the 4 listed frequencies (859.262500MHz) matches the frequency described by sprocketman927 above.
 

mokpt

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That got it! Thank you all so much. I did not have one of the control channels programed, like KA3jjz told me in the first reply, then sprocketman927, then DonS. You guy are on it! It seems the control channel is now 854.5625 which is not listed in RED. This may be what they changed last week. I must have stared at too many frequency lists last night and didn't see I was missing one. I can't thank you all enough for your help. It's like I lost one of my senses when my scanners weren't on.
 
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DonS

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That got it! Thank you all so much. I did not have one of the control channels programed, like KA3jjz told me in the first reply, then sprocketman927, then DonS. You guy are on it! It seems the control channel is now 854.2625 which is not listed in RED. This may be what they changed last week. I must have stared at too many frequency lists last night and didn't see I was missing one. I can't thank you all enough for your help. It's like I lost one of my senses when my scanners weren't on.
According to sprocketman927's 07:47 (PST) post, the control channel was 859.2625 MHz this morning. That frequency is definitely listed in red on the RR DB page linked to above.

The RR DB doesn't have 854.2625 listed as a system frequency, at all.
 

mokpt

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I'm on 854.56250 right now in MAN. The bottom line on my scanner screen says "MOT:Sys-6E0E 55%" the % number varies. I have a slightly different setup than sprocketman927. In the Fleetmap on "B0" I have "S04" which is preset E1P11. I use Win97. I tried his set up and was receiving all transmissions from the trunk system, not just what I wanted. Granted I may have not had everything the same. I also have all my trunked frequencies in the "MO" mode.
 
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I'm on 854.56250 right now in MAN. The bottom line on my scanner screen says "MOT:Sys-6E0E 55%" the % number varies. I have a slightly different setup than sprocketman927. In the Fleetmap on "B0" I have "S04" which is preset E1P11. I use Win97. I tried his set up and was receiving all transmissions from the trunk system, not just what I wanted. Granted I may have not had everything the same. I also have all my trunked frequencies in the "MO" mode.
LOL.. maybe I should change the mode on my Sullivan trunked frequencies to 'MO' and see if there's anything new to be heard. I know I've seen transmissions from all the talkgroups I've entered but it would be interesting to see if that change makes a difference.

Thanks for the heads up.
 

mokpt

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I also just spoke to my friend at the Sheriff's office and he just talked to the radio guy. He said they just added 854.7375 and 854.0875 The also removed 860.2625 and 860.7375. He said the last 2 channels went back to Nextel. He also said that if there is a problem with a control frequency that the system will switch to the backup control frequency.

I almost always listen to Kingsport and Sullivan Co. I have bands set up for Kingsport PD, Sullivan Co PD, Sullivan Co Fire/EMS, and Bristol PD. I'm more than happy to send you my set ups if would be of any help. I wondered the same thing about the MO/FM setting.
 
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I'll make those changes in my configuration file and push it to the scanner tonite. I'll also change the mode on those Sullivan trunk frequencies to 'MO' and see if anything different happens.

I'll let you know - thanks again!
 

KC5EIB

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I also just spoke to my friend at the Sheriff's office and he just talked to the radio guy. He said they just added 854.7375 and 854.0875 The also removed 860.2625 and 860.7375. He said the last 2 channels went back to Nextel. He also said that if there is a problem with a control frequency that the system will switch to the backup control frequency.

I almost always listen to Kingsport and Sullivan Co. I have bands set up for Kingsport PD, Sullivan Co PD, Sullivan Co Fire/EMS, and Bristol PD. I'm more than happy to send you my set ups if would be of any help. I wondered the same thing about the MO/FM setting.
After you confirm the frequency changes, be sure to get them entered into the RR database.
 
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I also just spoke to my friend at the Sheriff's office and he just talked to the radio guy. He said they just added 854.7375 and 854.0875 The also removed 860.2625 and 860.7375. He said the last 2 channels went back to Nextel. He also said that if there is a problem with a control frequency that the system will switch to the backup control frequency.

I almost always listen to Kingsport and Sullivan Co. I have bands set up for Kingsport PD, Sullivan Co PD, Sullivan Co Fire/EMS, and Bristol PD. I'm more than happy to send you my set ups if would be of any help. I wondered the same thing about the MO/FM setting.
I made the changes - adding 854.7375 and 854.0875 and removing 860.2625 and 860.7375 - and all appears to be working well. I changed the type on all Sullivan trunk frequencies to 'MO' from 'FM' but can't tell any difference in operability.

Thanks again and don't forget to update the RR DB.

Chris
KF4FMK
 
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