PRO-164 Scanner question

[gmclam]

... I have to push "search" but it is scanning on the 24 GMRS channels (or 23? I forgot)sorry about that!

If you are pressing SEARCH, then it is using th search function of the scanner, and not a SCAN function. I know it sounds like a minor difference, but here's my point. When using SEARCH, the scanner may not be tuned to the exact same frequency. So just make sure that when comparing the 2 radios, they are indeed on the same exact frequency.

when I use an AC adapter everything works great EXPECT for the CB radio bank. When I use batteries the squelch works delightfully, but when using the AC 9V adapter, the CB is always on, the squelch does not work, that happens on the 40 CB channels. When I take the AC adapter off and try batteries again, it works perfect. Any ideas on why?

This should not be the situation. It could be a problem with the AC adapter and/or the scanner. When you run from the AC adapter, are the batteries installed (in a yellow holder)? Perhaps the adapter can not handle running the radio correctly and charging batteries at the same time.

Now I am thinking about getting an antenna, indoor or outdoor. I really do want an outdoors, but I have the feeling the neighbors will be all weird about it.

This is not the hobby to have if you're concerned about what the neighbors think when you put up an antenna.

So I was thinking about getting an active antenna and see what happens...

Antennas are not magic. They need to "see" the antenna of the transmitter. Adding an amplifier does not help if there is no signal from the antenna to amplify.

I live at a 2 story house, and boy, the difference from downstairs and upstairs is significant.

That's true. One of the most significant factors to determine how far you can receive is based on the height of your antenna.

 

[michaelbookland]

Ok guys, thank you for your help. The thing is the scanner works pretty well with the rubber duck antenna, except for the CB radio thing with the AC adapter. Today I noticed it did get reception on GMRS. I still have time to try it more so I will see if I have to take it back or not. One thing is for certain, the PRO-164 is a battery sucker.

I know gmclam, don't take me wrong, I do not care about what the neighbors think, I care about what they CAN do legally. I do not own the house. Like I said, I am new to all this, but my dream is to have an antenna bigger than the house and higher than the Mt. Rushmore. In fact I talked to a neighbor today and asked him, he said it should be ok. I am about to get the all band discone, probably I will order it today. I am getting an RG6 cable 75 Ohm, but it will have to be longer than 50'....will that be bad? I have never setup an antenna, any suggestions before I start doing it? You guys have a lot of experience, so is there anything to keep in mind before I go on with my plans?
Besides safety and having someone else with you watching or helping (anytime you are on a roof you should have someone else, they same the same about fishing...hehe).

I am considering getting a PSR-300 for the house, although I am expecting a PRO-2006 to arrive very soon(just for the reputation). The PRO-164 receives great in the car BUT I have noticed it gets a lot of engine noise in some channels, is that normal? I know it is with some CB radios right?

Anyway, thank you so much for your help, as usual, and when i am all done I will post a picture to show you my final setup!!

 

[N8IAA]

The PRO-164 receives great in the car BUT I have noticed it gets a lot of engine noise in some channels, is that normal? I know it is with some CB radios right?Anyway, thank you so much for your help, as usual, and when i am all done I will post a picture to show you my final setup!!

Mike, it truly sounds like you have serious issues with the radio. I never got that kind of noise with my 97, and definitely not with my 106. I've run ham radios and scanners in all my vehicles with external antennas and ducks. Never have had that problem. Been scanning for 40 years and hamming for 25.
Larry

 

[michaelbookland]

Mike, it truly sounds like you have serious issues with the radio. I never got that kind of noise with my 97, and definitely not with my 106. I've run ham radios and scanners in all my vehicles with external antennas and ducks. Never have had that problem. Been scanning for 40 years and hamming for 25.
Larry

Aww man! I will have to return it then Maybe it is just me, I do not really know...I wish I had another PRO-164 with me to compare side by side. I am going to go for a ride later on again, and I will see if it was just noisy channels or just interferences with the engine of the car. I was thinking, it is true that computers and other electrical appliances do make noise in scanners right?

Thank you Larry!

 

[N8IAA]

Aww man! I will have to return it then Maybe it is just me, I do not really know...I wish I had another PRO-164 with me to compare side by side. I am going to go for a ride later on again, and I will see if it was just noisy channels or just interferences with the engine of the car. I was thinking, it is true that computers and other electrical appliances do make noise in scanners right? Thank you Larry!

I have two computers running with wifi right next to where the scanners are, one runs milair and other conventional frequencies, the other all my digital stuff. Once in a great while there is some interference from a paging tower near me. The only thing I can guess on scanning CB on a scanner, is that it doesn't do well. Have tried it with all my scanners. I would rather use a cb that scans than a scanner that scans cb
Larry

 

[michaelbookland]

I have two computers running with wifi right next to where the scanners are, one runs milair and other conventional frequencies, the other all my digital stuff. Once in a great while there is some interference from a paging tower near me. The only thing I can guess on scanning CB on a scanner, is that it doesn't do well. Have tried it with all my scanners. I would rather use a cb that scans than a scanner that scans cb
Larry

So you are not getting instantaneous interferences with the handhelds when next to the computer and a rubber duck on it? I am guessing external antennas won't pick on the scanners even if they are next to the computer, but when the case is the opposite it should pick some interferences from the computer right? Man I am just trying to make myself feel better with my scanner hahah. Either way I think I read it even in the manual, that thing about computers, but I am not sure now. What i know is that all of my CB radios do get interferences from the electrical appliances such as computers.
About the CB that scans, I agree, I have a couple of CBs none of them scan...but I will get myself one pretty soon. I never knew scanners did not work that well with CB frequencies, hey gmclam I believe he commented on that one, he mentioned if you attach a CB antenna to a scanner, it will pick up. I think it was him, I am not sure now.

 

[jamesa53]

I was thinking, it is true that computers and other electrical appliances do make noise in scanners right?

Just set an iPhone next to a scanner and see what happens LOL.

 

[N8IAA]

You can return it, can't you?? Have you tried the ATTenuator feature?
Larry

 

[gmclam]

I have two computers running with wifi right next to where the scanners are, one runs milair and other conventional frequencies, the other all my digital stuff.

If someone gets interference from electronics next to a scanner it does not mean there is something wrong with the scanner. I too run scanners next to my computers, but depending on the scanner, computer and specific frequencies I am tuned to, I will get interference.

I was able to mitigate interference on conventional channels by connecting those scanners to an outside antenna. I am able to run scanners with RS800 antennas on trunked systems next to most computers. But my HP laptop still causes interference on scanners with a rubber antenna.

hey gmclam I believe he commented on that one, he mentioned if you attach a CB antenna to a scanner, it will pick up. I think it was him, I am not sure now.

Try putting your scanner antenna on your CB and see how well it picks up. If you are going to compare RADIOS, then compare them with the same situations.

 

[N8IAA]

I too run scanners next to my computers, but depending on the scanner, computer and specific frequencies I am tuned to, I will get interference.

I'm not saying that there are not freuencies on my scanners or ham radios that don't get interference, but, he's getting the same interference whether he is at home, or, mobile. It doesn't seem to be band specific either by what he is describing. I respect the fact that you have a bit more electronics knowledge than me, but, from a layman's point of view, he has a radio that has problems different than others that have posted on the 164. I don't own a 164, but have the 163. With the exception of a very few frequencies, there is not a lot of interference from localized electronics, or, outside tower interference. He may want to take it to a local RS and put a few of the frequencies into their radio to see if there is a difference.
Larry

 

[gmclam]

My only point was/is that if you operate a scanner with an antenna attached directly on it (not outside), then you are very likely to pick up all kinds of interference. It can come from routers, computers or anything electronic. By "remoting" the antenna, you distant if from the source of the interference.

And interference can "de-sensitize" a receiver making it appear to have poor(er) reception. The GMRS receivers likely only allow in a very narrow band of signals, while scanners typically allow in a much wider band. So a strong signal that is not being paid attention to can reduce signal reception of signals close to it in frequency.

 

[michaelbookland]

Thank you guys, I appreciate all your help. Yeah I may do that Larry and see if there is a difference. I tried the scanner in the car again today, and I think (obviously I am not used to scanners and I do not even have a CB radio installed in my car) the "interferences" I was getting is the fact that I am MOVING and not staying, I mean, when you go through a city, and move fast, I am just guessing, it can't be the same reception as when you are still at a specific spot. For instance, I noticed today, when I am parked, the reception is great, even with the car on. I gotta tell you, the sound is very clear when still, really. If I move fast the signals get weaker, but then again, I think it is normal, using a rubber duck and not an external antenna in the car. I am also going to try a CB antenna like gmclam said, just out of curiousity.
About the computer noise, I was able to listen to everything next to the computer, no noise whatsoever, so maybe it is something else around. I know sometimes some repeaters give me noise at different spots in the house.

Either way, Larry, yeah I can still return it, I have a couple of days to make sure it is defective, but let me tell you, for $80(including shipping), looking like new out of the box, and all the features of the radio, I do not know if it is worth it sending it back, honestly. I bought it online, so the shipping alone would make 1 quarter of what the radio cost. However, I am testing it really hard now, and I keep it on for longer periods of time. I am loving it, this thing is great, I wish I had started earlier in the world of scanning and radios in general.

Again, thank you guys, I am going to order an all band discone antenna today, RG6 (100ft), and the mounting bracket and mast. It is going to be tall, since I am at a 2 story house (basically my roof is the tallest in the neighborhood). I am having trouble with finding a mast a bit thinner than 1 1/2 "...but I guess I will find it. You guys recommend aluminum or fiberglass?

 

[N8IAA]

Movement doesn't cause 'interference'. It's a different phenomenon called 'picketfencing'. Driving between buildings is the cause. Signal is good, then poor, then good again. When you stop, it's great. Have experienced it many times on ham radio. Most public service is at much higher power than ham repeaters, so it won't be as noticable until you get in a really bad area of reception. CB is always a challenge because of the mode it operates in--AM--not FM. But this can be seen in the difference between broadcast AM and FM radio.
Gmclam, you are absolutely correct about the rubber duck in the shack. Noise is present on many frequencies. That is why I use magmount antennas on a 4 drawer metal cabinet for the radios. Ham and scanners. I wish I had my house from back in Ohio. I had two chimneys and a metal stink pipe. All my low band antennas were on the stink pipe. Shack was in the finished room in the attic. Never a run longer than 30'. Always ran RG8 quad shielded and RG mini 8 quad shielded. I used a radio shack modified discone with the center drilled out and tapped to 3/8-24. Used my 11m steel 1/4 antenna for cb and low band monitoring. Had a 40m dipole hooked to a tuner for shortwave and hamming on hf. 2m/440Mhz gain antenna for ham and scanning. Outside and high is always a deal breaker Not that I have a HOA in my subdivision, I have a greater law to deal with----my wife Attic will eventually be the place for my permanent antennas.
Larry

 

[michaelbookland]

Movement doesn't cause 'interference'. It's a different phenomenon called 'picketfencing'. Driving between buildings is the cause. Signal is good, then poor, then good again. When you stop, it's great. Have experienced it many times on ham radio. Most public service is at much higher power than ham repeaters, so it won't be as noticable until you get in a really bad area of reception. CB is always a challenge because of the mode it operates in--AM--not FM. But this can be seen in the difference between broadcast AM and FM radio.
Gmclam, you are absolutely correct about the rubber duck in the shack. Noise is present on many frequencies. That is why I use magmount antennas on a 4 drawer metal cabinet for the radios. Ham and scanners. I wish I had my house from back in Ohio. I had two chimneys and a metal stink pipe. All my low band antennas were on the stink pipe. Shack was in the finished room in the attic. Never a run longer than 30'. Always ran RG8 quad shielded and RG mini 8 quad shielded. I used a radio shack modified discone with the center drilled out and tapped to 3/8-24. Used my 11m steel 1/4 antenna for cb and low band monitoring. Had a 40m dipole hooked to a tuner for shortwave and hamming on hf. 2m/440Mhz gain antenna for ham and scanning. Outside and high is always a deal breaker Not that I have a HOA in my subdivision, I have a greater law to deal with----my wife Attic will eventually be the place for my permanent antennas.
Larry

Hi Larry, yeah! the reception was great while stopped. I guess I should not worry about that one. Anyway, I just got a discone, but I am afraid I am going to have to run a 100' to put it up in my roof. Will it lose a lot that way? I have heard RG6 is good for this. I will use the 75 Ohm one. I swear I have been looking for wall mounts online and it is the MOST difficult thing I have ever done, seriously. Additionally, I can not find a mast to fit my discone (Maximum Mast Diameter: 33 mm or up to 1 3/8"). I have tried to find masts, tent poles, flag poles, fiberglass, aluminum, anything you can think of, but NONE is thinner in diameter than 1 1/2"!! any ideas to find a mast with that OD or less (I do not really want less)? Same with the mounting wall bracket, where to get them? I mean, some Home Depo, or some other store?

Thanks guys

 

[gmclam]

I just got a discone, but I am afraid I am going to have to run a 100' to put it up in my roof. Will it lose a lot that way?

At 800 MHz, your loss will be about 8.6dB. Since the discone has no gain, you are most likely going to end up with less signal on the other end of the coax than you would with an 800 MHz rubber type antenna right on the scanner. Here is a site to help you with the calculations. Compare that to LMR-400 which has a loss of about 3.7dB.

 

[michaelbookland]

At 800 MHz, your loss will be about 8.6dB. Since the discone has no gain, you are most likely going to end up with less signal on the other end of the coax than you would with an 800 MHz rubber type antenna right on the scanner. Here is a site to help you with the calculations. Compare that to LMR-400 which has a loss of about 3.7dB.

Thanks, I'll check it now.

 

[michaelbookland]

Ok, I checked it. Now I think I am going to get LMR400, but I am afraid the total length will have to be 75'(which is not that bad, at least it is not 100' ), the most, since before I was just estimating and not thinking right. Now I am going to measure better because it may be around 60'-65' instead.
What I would love you guys to help me with is with the connectors. If the cable comes with PL259 connectors, I would still need an adapter. Why? Because I obviously must add a grounding block to it. Now are there grounding blocks with SO239 connectors? I can not find any around. All I can find is F type grounding blocks. So, this is the thing,

1- If I get an adapter from PL259 to F male (for the first 50') and an F male to SO239 for the next section of the cable (namely the remaining aprox. 15' or less), will there be any noticeable loss? I mean I do not want to spend that much on LMR400 to just use crappy adapters that will result in the same loss as if I was using a lesser quality cable.

2- Any other way to ground it besides using 2 joined cables and a grounding coax block? Again excuse my ignorance, but that's why I am here asking, and grounding correctly is a MUST.

3- Another thing I have noticed is that I can only find these adapters rated for RG6 and not for RG8 or equivalent to LMR400. Will that be a big thing too?

4- Finally if I want to add a splitter at the end to attach the antenna to 2 scanners, what should I be cautious about?

I would appreciate all your input on this one and any advice is welcome. This is my first time doing this so I want to do it the right way. Thank you guys.

 

[michaelbookland]

Surge Arrester

I wanted to add something to my last message but I could not edit it. Should I use a surge arrester instead of a grounding coaxial block? Or both? Or once I install the surge protector and ground it, that's it? Or do I still need to throw a wire from the mount or mast to the surge protector grounding section?

Thanks again

 

[gmclam]

Now I think I am going to get LMR400, but I am afraid the total length will have to be 75'... I am going to measure better because it may be around 60'-65' instead.

If you plan to monitor UHF frequencies, the shorter the better. The signal loss at 100' will be twice as much as 50'. But keep the length practical.

If the cable comes with PL259 connectors, I would still need an adapter. Why? Because I obviously must add a grounding block to it. Now are there grounding blocks with SO239 connectors? I can not find any around. All I can find is F type grounding blocks.

Ive put both N and PL-259s on the end of this coax, depending on the antenna. For me, buying coax with connectors on it does not work because you can't get the coax through the walls. One scenario is to get it with a connector on one end, and then put it on the other end yourself (or have someone do it that knows how and has the tools).

Note that because of the size of LMR-400, you can not put F connectors on it directly. Also, you are better off running a solid copper wire from the antenna to a ground, than you are putting in adapters and a "F grounding block".

If I get an adapter from PL259 to F male (for the first 50') and an F male to SO239 for the next section of the cable (namely the remaining aprox. 15' or less), will there be any noticeable loss? I mean I do not want to spend that much on LMR400 to just use crappy adapters that will result in the same loss as if I was using a lesser quality cable.

As far as loss is concerned, you'd have to do the math. All adapters and connectors are not created equal. Will you notice it? Probably not unless the signal you are trying to get is on the edge of reception. I will note that I would not do this. Run the ground from the antenna, and run the LMR-400 directly (without other elements) as far as you can.

Any other way to ground it?

The typical reason for grounding is to protect against lightning. Lightning is going to take the most direct route to ground. Running xx feet of cable and then connecting a ground is not nearly as good as a direct connection to ground from the antenna.

If I want to add a splitter at the end to attach the antenna to 2 scanners, what should I be cautious about?

LOL. Everything. In my installation, I run a discone, which as an SO-239 connector on it, with LMR-400 cable to a filter. The filter has BNC connectors, so I used adapters because the LMR-400 has PL-259s on it. At the termination end of the LMR-400 (inside) I put a pair of adapters to get to an F connector and connected a high quality cable TV splitter. Then I run short lengths of flexible coax from the splitter to the receivers. It works for me.

I think that one issue people don't consider is the actual frequencies they plan to receive. My interests are from about 39 MHz to 870 MHz. Older cable TV splitters do not go that high in frequency. I have some here that stop at 300, 400 and 500 MHz. If you plan to run only 2 scanners, do NOT use a 4 way splitter, or even a 3 way. A 2 way splitter cuts each signal by just over 50%, and a 3 or 4 way cuts those signals in half again.

There are other splitters out there, and you don't have to use the cable TV versions with F connectors. Of course there are also the active multicouplers which use BNC connectors. There is no exact list of devices that will work for everyone. Not only are our needs different, but so are the signal levels and frequencies of the signals we want at each of our receive locations.

 

[michaelbookland]

Thanks for your detailed answer gmclam, it helps a lot.

Run the ground from the antenna, and run the LMR-400 directly (without other elements) as far as you can.

The typical reason for grounding is to protect against lightning. Lightning is going to take the most direct route to ground. Running xx feet of cable and then connecting a ground is not nearly as good as a direct connection to ground from the antenna.

Now, about the grounding, when you say "run the ground from the antenna" you mean from the discone itself or the mast/mount? I am assuming it makes sense from the discone itself, but wouldn't that cause some signal loss or some type of effect in the antenna?