Pro-2096 / Colorado DTRS question

[SWCOScanner]

I know this has probably been answered a few hundred times already SOMEWHERE, but I'm not finding it after a bunch of forum browsing, so I'll just ask it anyway:

When trying to scan the Colorado State DTRS system with a 2096 (using Win96 to program):


Do I need all the frequencies for my local sites, or just the control channels? (not much difference around here anyway - usually only 1 or 2 non-control channels per site)


What kind of trunking system CC do I select (3600, 9600, rebanded, etc). I've tried a lot of options, and I'm still not getting much, if anything, most of the time. It would probably help if I had more traffic to follow, but knowing for certain what to program it as will allow me to make a correct program without all of the "wait and see if this works" time.


Is there a way to find out what talkgroups a site carries? How does the system know what groups to broadcast over a given site? (in retrospect, I probably already know these answers, but I'll ask anyway)


What is the BEST antenna (both base and mobile) for scanning VHF and 800? I monitor both in the trucks and at home, so a combination antenna for each would help a lot. Currently, my home antenna is a base antenna tuned for VHF - how is that going to do on the 800 side? The trucks have VHF (155 Mhz) tuned antennas currently...

Sorry for the barrage of questions, hopefully someone will be able to enlighten me relatively painlessly.

Brian

 

[04Z1V6]

Were is your home area, the DTRS is mostly MOT 9600 I think, and if I am wrong I will soon be corrected, I let win96 set this up automatically I have been using the RS800 and I like it. From Castle Rock I listen to all of Denver metro north to just south of Colorado Springs mostly because of how I am located from the towers. I listen on a 2096 base and a 106 mobile.

 

[SWCOScanner]

Well, duh... I completely forgot to put where I am in that one...

I'm in between Cortez and Dove Creek, in southwest Colorado. The only DTRS site that I'm getting the data channel on (so far) is 202 - Abajo Peak, located in Utah.

I'm currently running it in "Rebanded 800" mode, and not getting anything. For lack of better info, I'm going to try a test program with a few different modes on just that one site and see what works.

 

[fmon]

Did you set Wayne's custom tables?
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100208

 

[SWCOScanner]

Did you set Wayne's custom tables?
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100208

The 2 lines of that table that apply to completely rebanded systems are in the Win96 "3600 CC / 800 MHz Rebanded" CC selection, but I have yet to receive anything on that setting. One of the questions I should have asked was what CC (3600 or 9600) the Colorado DTRS has, I guess.

In my ongoing tests, I have only received transmissions on the Win96 Default settings (as imported from RR), and the 9600 CC / 800 MHz settings, which may well be one and the same. It would help considerably if I had more than a transmission an hour to check with... It's REALLY dead right now, at least on the site I'm monitoring. I wouldn't be doubting that I'm receiving everything, but I can hear the 800 system running in the background of one of the dispatch centers, and I'm NOT getting what they are. I have 7 sites within 50 miles of me, but I can't seem to get CC info on any of them but this one site with my current antenna. This is why I asked about antenna information as well...

Brian

 

[Warbirdhunter]

The 2 lines of that table that apply to completely rebanded systems are in the Win96 "3600 CC / 800 MHz Rebanded" CC selection, but I have yet to receive anything on that setting. One of the questions I should have asked was what CC (3600 or 9600) the Colorado DTRS has, I guess.

In my ongoing tests, I have only received transmissions on the Win96 Default settings (as imported from RR), and the 9600 CC / 800 MHz settings, which may well be one and the same. It would help considerably if I had more than a transmission an hour to check with... It's REALLY dead right now, at least on the site I'm monitoring. I have 7 sites within 50 miles of me, but I can't seem to get CC info on any of them but this one site with my current antenna. This is why I asked about antenna information as well...

Brian

Hello Brian, Welcome to the Colorado forum. An antenna that I have heard works well is the $25 outdoor antenna from Radio Shack. Mod Erik (abqscan) works at Radio Shack and can tell you more about how well it works, I personally use a mag mount NMO antenna attached to my balcony railing. I have a great HOA witch makes that about all I can run. But I have heard that the $25 dollar antenna works very well on the state system. I am sure some of the experts will chime in here and have better ideas, but I just thought I would pass that on. Again welcome!

 

[fmon]

The 2 lines of that table that apply to completely rebanded systems are in the Win96 "3600 CC / 800 MHz Rebanded" CC selection, but I have yet to receive anything on that setting. One of the questions I should have asked was what CC (3600 or 9600) the Colorado DTRS has, I guess.

In my ongoing tests, I have only received transmissions on the Win96 Default settings (as imported from RR), and the 9600 CC / 800 MHz settings, which may well be one and the same. It would help considerably if I had more than a transmission an hour to check with... It's REALLY dead right now, at least on the site I'm monitoring. I wouldn't be doubting that I'm receiving everything, but I can hear the 800 system running in the background of one of the dispatch centers, and I'm NOT getting what they are. I have 7 sites within 50 miles of me, but I can't seem to get CC info on any of them but this one site with my current antenna. This is why I asked about antenna information as well...

Brian

DTRS is 9600 CC.

And come to think of it...you don't need tables for 9600 CC. Just program the new CC's and go.

 

[SWCOScanner]

DTRS is 9600 CC.

And come to think of it...you don't need tables for 9600 CC. Just program the new CC's and go.

Now THAT'S (one) of the answers I was looking for. Thank You. I wouldn't have been doubting of it being 9600 originally, but I read somewhere (and it might have been out of date) that the DTRS was not 9600. But I think I can go with that, just leaving the other questions...

 

[jimmnn]

Brian, Believe most of your questions have been addressed but for DTRS monitoring it's control channel trunking so you only need the individual control channel programmed in not all the frequencies and if you would like to share your win96 programming file I'd be happy to provide some feedback.

No tables are needed when programming the 9600 baud trunked system.

Antenna wise you are best off with a scanner and antenna dedicated to the VHF systems and another scanner and antenna for the 800MHz systems but if needed a dual band will do fairly well but now where near as good receiving distant systems like you have many of in the 4 corners.

We also have a SW Colo feed available at: http://montezuma.co.scanamerica.us/index.php if you want to check that out sometime.

Welcome to the group.

Jim<

 

[04Z1V6]

Montezuma SO, Cortez PD, and Mancos PD, are using both Conventional and DTRS. I would try installing both systems.

 

[SWCOScanner]

Brian, Believe most of your questions have been addressed but for DTRS monitoring it's control channel trunking so you only need the individual control channel programmed in not all the frequencies and if you would like to share your win96 programming file I'd be happy to provide some feedback.

No tables are needed when programming the 9600 baud trunked system.

Antenna wise you are best off with a scanner and antenna dedicated to the VHF systems and another scanner and antenna for the 800MHz systems but if needed a dual band will do fairly well but now where near as good receiving distant systems like you have many of in the 4 corners.

We also have a SW Colo feed available at: http://montezuma.co.scanamerica.us/index.php if you want to check that out sometime.

Welcome to the group.

Jim<

Thank you one and all for the information! I have got one site (202 - Abajo Peak) working, but not a lot of traffic on it, unfortunately. I get some things, but nowhere near everything. I tried the webscanner for Montezuma County SO, and it gets things I don't get, but it also doesn't receive Dolores County SO, which I do. I'm still a bit confused as to what traffic a individual site carries... I'm currently getting traffic for Dolores County SO, CSP Troop 5A , and Mancos PD, but NOT anything for Montezuma County SO? I'd say it was a lack of talkgroups, but I'm running in open mode, so I should get everything on my site, right?

So, What antenna would you recommend for 800 MHz DTRS receiving at home? We get VHF well enough here that I suspect I'd be fine running an 800 antenna and just pulling the VHF through it as well, at least for that setup. The other setup is more involved and techie-oriented, and could definitely run 2 antennas and radios, so recommendations for antenna for 800, VHF, and both would be in order. In case you didn't get my introduction speech, I run a towing service, and both trucks have radios in them as well, both with NMO mounts in the roof, so I will eventually have to come up with an NMO mount antenna that will provide the best possible reception on both 800 and VHF for these as well, although I guess it's possible that I could leave the existing (2 way) VHF's in the trucks and add an 800 APCO scanner as well... which would then only necessitate adding a good 800 scanner antenna.

Jim, how do I go about sending you my current p96 file? It's VERY basic, just 7 banks, one DTRS site per bank, with about 120 talkgroups listed in each (same 120 for each bank). 4 channels per bank is kind of a waste to me, but it's the best way I could find that the radio liked (avoiding the multiple site bug), and that would allow me to easily change which site I was scanning if I need to.

As I said before, I'm within 50 miles (the supposed range of each tower) of 7 or more sites, and I can only get CC data on 1, so it would appear that I need a better antenna at the very least.

Thanks all!

Brian

 

[firescannerbob]

Hi, Brian and welcome...
The last time I was out your way (early October) the Sleeping Ute site (#274) had a HUGE footprint, being clearly audible as far west as Kayenta, and through Monument Valley and Mexican Hat. It's control channel is 853.0500.
It also shows 202,208,209,218,248,279 as neighbors, so you may want to enter them into your scanner, too.
When I was there last month, the majority of DTRS traffic was CSP and other state agencies, so as others have suggested, you may want to also monitor conventional traffic for a while, too.

 

[jimmnn]

Thank you one and all for the information! I have got one site (202 - Abajo Peak) working, but not a lot of traffic on it, unfortunately. I get some things, but nowhere near everything. I tried the webscanner for Montezuma County SO, and it gets things I don't get, but it also doesn't receive Dolores County SO, which I do. I'm still a bit confused as to what traffic a individual site carries... I'm currently getting traffic for Dolores County SO, CSP Troop 5A , and Mancos PD, but NOT anything for Montezuma County SO? I'd say it was a lack of talkgroups, but I'm running in open mode, so I should get everything on my site, right?

Everything on the site yes, but what if Montezuma County SO units are not affiliating with Abajo, that's a little outside there area and they may be affiliating with closer Cortez area CC's.

So, What antenna would you recommend for 800 MHz DTRS receiving at home? We get VHF well enough here that I suspect I'd be fine running an 800 antenna and just pulling the VHF through it as well, at least for that setup.

I have found 800MHz yagi's designed and aimed properly using low loss coax to be the best for base installations.

The other setup is more involved and techie-oriented, and could definitely run 2 antennas and radios, so recommendations for antenna for 800, VHF, and both would be in order. In case you didn't get my introduction speech, I run a towing service, and both trucks have radios in them as well, both with NMO mounts in the roof, so I will eventually have to come up with an NMO mount antenna that will provide the best possible reception on both 800 and VHF for these as well, although I guess it's possible that I could leave the existing (2 way) VHF's in the trucks and add an 800 APCO scanner as well... which would then only necessitate adding a good 800 scanner antenna.

Good 3 or 5db gain NMO mount 800MHz work great, there are many brands.

Jim, how do I go about sending you my current p96 file? It's VERY basic, just 7 banks, one DTRS site per bank, with about 120 talkgroups listed in each (same 120 for each bank). 4 channels per bank is kind of a waste to me, but it's the best way I could find that the radio liked (avoiding the multiple site bug), and that would allow me to easily change which site I was scanning if I need to.

Feel free to email it too me anytime; jimmnn@comcast.net

As I said before, I'm within 50 miles (the supposed range of each tower) of 7 or more sites, and I can only get CC data on 1, so it would appear that I need a better antenna at the very least.

Have you searched the 800MHz control channel range, Bob found Sleeping Ute site had wide area coverage well into Utah last time he passed through.

Jim<

 

[SWCOScanner]

Hi, Brian and welcome...
The last time I was out your way (early October) the Sleeping Ute site (#274) had a HUGE footprint, being clearly audible as far west as Kayenta, and through Monument Valley and Mexican Hat. It's control channel is 853.0500.
It also shows 202,208,209,218,248,279 as neighbors, so you may want to enter them into your scanner, too.
When I was there last month, the majority of DTRS traffic was CSP and other state agencies, so as others have suggested, you may want to also monitor conventional traffic for a while, too.

Hi Bob, and thanks for the reply! (This info is also for you too, Jim)

I have 274's CC in my scanner, and I am not able to get anything, although it's only 33 miles from here. The same for 208 (Dolores) (21 miles), 209 (LaMonte) (40 miles), 218 (North Mt.) (25 miles), 246 (Gobbler's Knob (!!!)), 248 (Rico), and 279 (Egnar) (18 miles). I'm receiving on 202 (Abajo Peak), but it's the only one I can get, and I show 90 to 94% strength on it's CC. As the crow flies, I'm about 35 miles from 202, but DIRECT line of sight. All of the other CC's I get absolutely, completely NOTHING on. Take note, however, that I am using a 9DB gain base transmitter antenna tuned for 155 MHz right now.

The geography of this area is difficult for radios, to say the least. I believe (by RR's maps) that site 274 is on the south side of the peak, which would mean it's DIRECTLY on the other side of it from me. Abajo Peak is a very common repeater location for this area, since it covers both Montezuma and Dolores counties well - it's where a lot of the VHF repeaters are already. The Egnar site should be working for me, and isn't, and the same for LaMonte. LaMonte is very close to Cortez/Montezuma's Menafee repeater, which I am able to receive here. I also receive Montezuma County's Dolores repeater, but NOT the DTRS Dolores site. You tell me...

I also cannot fathom (aside from governmental logic being factored in somewhere) WHY I would get Mancos, but not Montezuma County, on 202. Makes absolutely no sense to me.

Anyways, keep the ideas and suggestions coming - I'm greatly appreciative of it all!

Brian

 

[Warbirdhunter]

Jims bat cave

Thank you one and all for the information! I have got one site (202 - Abajo Peak) working, but not a lot of traffic on it, unfortunately. I get some things, but nowhere near everything. I tried the webscanner for Montezuma County SO, and it gets things I don't get, but it also doesn't receive Dolores County SO, which I do. I'm still a bit confused as to what traffic a individual site carries... I'm currently getting traffic for Dolores County SO, CSP Troop 5A , and Mancos PD, but NOT anything for Montezuma County SO? I'd say it was a lack of talkgroups, but I'm running in open mode, so I should get everything on my site, right?

Everything on the site yes, but what if Montezuma County SO units are not affiliating with Abajo, that's a little outside there area and they may be affiliating with closer Cortez area CC's.

So, What antenna would you recommend for 800 MHz DTRS receiving at home? We get VHF well enough here that I suspect I'd be fine running an 800 antenna and just pulling the VHF through it as well, at least for that setup.

I have found 800MHz yagi's designed and aimed properly using low loss coax to be the best for base installations.

The other setup is more involved and techie-oriented, and could definitely run 2 antennas and radios, so recommendations for antenna for 800, VHF, and both would be in order. In case you didn't get my introduction speech, I run a towing service, and both trucks have radios in them as well, both with NMO mounts in the roof, so I will eventually have to come up with an NMO mount antenna that will provide the best possible reception on both 800 and VHF for these as well, although I guess it's possible that I could leave the existing (2 way) VHF's in the trucks and add an 800 APCO scanner as well... which would then only necessitate adding a good 800 scanner antenna.

Good 3 or 5db gain NMO mount 800MHz work great, there are many brands.

Jim, how do I go about sending you my current p96 file? It's VERY basic, just 7 banks, one DTRS site per bank, with about 120 talkgroups listed in each (same 120 for each bank). 4 channels per bank is kind of a waste to me, but it's the best way I could find that the radio liked (avoiding the multiple site bug), and that would allow me to easily change which site I was scanning if I need to.

Feel free to email it too me anytime; jimmnn@comcast.net

As I said before, I'm within 50 miles (the supposed range of each tower) of 7 or more sites, and I can only get CC data on 1, so it would appear that I need a better antenna at the very least.

Have you searched the 800MHz control channel range, Bob found Sleeping Ute site had wide area coverage well into Utah last time he passed through.

Jim<

Are thoes all your antenna's Jim??? Holy antenna farm. So just so we are all on the same page. you have like 8 scanners, and all thoes antenna's? Serousy Jim we need to see a picture of your bat cave

 

[firescannerbob]

Brian,
The Sleeping Utes site location is definitely working against you. Try as you might, radio signals don't go through mountains very well .
The other issue is your antenna. You REALLY need a 800mhz antenna of some type. I'd be willing to bet you'll hear most or all those sites you listed with the proper antenna.

 

[SWCOScanner]

Brian,
The Sleeping Utes site location is definitely working against you. Try as you might, radio signals don't go through mountains very well .
The other issue is your antenna. You REALLY need a 800mhz antenna of some type. I'd be willing to bet you'll hear most or all those sites you listed with the proper antenna.

Yup. The antenna is DEFINITELY an issue. I'm gonna have to get one on the way ASAP and see what happens. I'll definitely keep you guys posted on what happens. At this point, a high-gain 800 MHz discone is looking to be about the best option for this scanner/base setup. With the wide range of areas that I'm trying to receive, and the mobile units as well, a fixed directional doesn't seem to me like a good bet. Suggestions?

Bob - that's a heckuva antenna lineup you got there! Very impressive... I'll bet you have one antenna there for each band known...

 

[jimmnn]

Remember 800MHz propagation is much more line of site than VHF so you really can't compare sites that you hear 155.xxx on versus DTRS.

Jim<

 

[firescannerbob]

Bob - that's a heckuva antenna lineup you got there! Very impressive... I'll bet you have one antenna there for each band known...

Those aren't mine, they're Jims, and I can't compete with him at all!

 

[SWCOScanner]

Lol. I can't even remember who I'm typing to... jeez.