Pro 433 EDACS issue

[FireDawgEMT22]

I am having problems scanning the EDACS TRS for Ottawa County Ohio. The database entries are here Ottawa County Public Safety Radio System Trunking System, Port Clinton, Ohio - Scanner Frequencies .

I selected bank 2 on the scanner, entered programming mode and trunk, selected the system as "Ed" and entered the frequencies in the order listed in the database. I then entered the TG Id's I want to scan in the first scan list (1-1 - 1-0) and deselected the other 9 scan lists. I then start scanning and make sure it is in trunking mode (in conventional mode I can hear the control channel sound just fine).

The problem is I cannot get any traffic while scanning. Maybe I am mistaken, but from what I read and understand the rebanding issues only applied to Motorola systems and not EDACS. Is there something I am missing. I receive the VHF pager frequency just fine and since I can receive the control channel I am assuming I am not too far away...any advice????

 

[puzzleriddle]

rebanding applies to the whole 800Mhz band regardless of the type of System. READ HERE http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Rebanding

 

[FireDawgEMT22]

Ok so according to that, I do not need to worry about the fact that my 433 does not have a firmware or software upgrade since that system is not a Moto system and all i have to do is subtract 15mhz from each of the frequencies???

"What about EDACS and LTR systems?
Everything that has been discussed insofar as new channel allocations and firmware fixes have to do with Motorola systems only. EDACS and LTR use a completely different framework, and as such, scanners don't need firmware fixes to continue to track these systems. All that would be required is to reprogram all the frequencies subtracting 15 mhz from the current values, and make sure that the same LCN is maintained throughout. All the current trunktrackers that currently track EDACS or LTR systems will continue to do so after rebanding."

So which frequencies do I subtract 15 Mhz from? all 5, just the 1 that is not listed as a control frequency? According to the database 4 out of the 5 are listed as control channels....

 

[FireDawgEMT22]

Ok So the scanner will not accept the frequencies I got from subtracting 15Mhz. I took 854.2125 and got 839.2125, took 855.5375 and got 840.5375, took 856.0875 and got 841.0875, took 852.5125 and got 837.5125, and 853.1125 and got 838.1125, but the scanner does not accept those freq's keeps giving me an error. But according to the article that is all I have to do to get the scanner to scan rebanded EDACS...What am I missing


Edit...ok wait a minute...It looks like the frequencies listed in the RR database are the rebanded freq's. I do not subtract 15MHz from those...

So if those frequencies are already listed as rebanded why cant I get any traffic??? unless is there a chance the county has not reprogrammed their radios yet, and are still using the 860's???

 

[FireDawgEMT22]

Ottawa Co EDACS

I have done some searching, but everything seems to be a couple years old and I do not like to dig up old threads and hit them with a defibrillating post. So...I am having issues with programming the Ottawa County EDACS in my scanner. I know how to program it, and even though I have a pro 433 I understand that since it uses LCN it will still work with the rebanding. My problem is I cannot get any traffic on it. Are the frequencies in the database the new freq's after rebanding, or should I take those and subtract 15MHz from them, or only from some of them? I can get the control channel signal with no problem on 852.5125 so I know I should be getting something as far as radio traffic goes. Have there been frequencies added, changed, anything like that?

 

[W8RMH]

I don't know where you got the idea to subtract 15 Mhz. Just enter the frequencies, in order, as shown in the DB.

 

[FireDawgEMT22]

I don't know where you got the idea to subtract 15 Mhz. Just enter the frequencies, in order, as shown in the DB.

The rebanding fix to subtract 15Mhz from the frequencies for a EDACS system. I did not know if the Databse frequencies had been updated to the rebanding or not. I do not receive anything at all on this TRS system and I have them entered as is on the database.

 

[DickH]

So if those frequencies are already listed as rebanded why cant I get any traffic??? unless is there a chance the county has not reprogrammed their radios yet, and are still using the 860's???

Be sure you put the first freq. in channel 01 - NOT 00.
The small number in front of each freq. is the number of the channel in your scanner where you put the freq.

 

[FireDawgEMT22]

Be sure you put the first freq. in channel 01 - NOT 00.
The small number in front of each freq. is the number of the channel in your scanner where you put the freq.

Yeah I got them 101-105 and I set up the scan lists using the entire 02 and 04 agencies (using the AFS codes) and I get no traffic at all.

 

[mtindor]

The rebanding fix to subtract 15Mhz from the frequencies for a EDACS system. I did not know if the Databse frequencies had been updated to the rebanding or not. I do not receive anything at all on this TRS system and I have them entered as is on the database.

That would only work if it was a system that was truly rebanded AND the database was still showing the old 86x Mhz frequencies - an example would have been 867.5125 - 15 Mhz = 852.5125. The site you're listening to is already in the 850 Mhz, so it was either rebanded already or always used 85x frequencies and never needed rebanded. So forget the 15 Mhz thing.

At some point the LCN order of the system may have changed. You'll need to ascertain if the LCN order listed in the DB is correct or not. If it isn't, you definitely won't get proper tracking.

Also make sure that when you programmed that bank for trunking, that you set the system type for ED (EDACS).

I don't know if that scanner has an ID SEARCH / Group Wildcard mode. If so, you probably should set it so that it will play the audio for any active talkgroup -- at least while troubleshooting.

If you have a second scanner, program the EDACS system frequencies in conventionally and lock out the active control channel. Then let that scanner continue to scan conventionally, and when you hear activity you can try and see what's happening on the PRO-433 -- You'll want to see if the PRO-433 is even attempting to move to a voice frequency. If it is, it's probably moving to the wrong one and you can use the other scanner to attempt to figure out which one it should be moving to.

Mike

 

[FireDawgEMT22]

That would only work if it was a system that was truly rebanded AND the database was still showing the old 86x Mhz frequencies - an example would have been 867.5125 - 15 Mhz = 852.5125. The site you're listening to is already in the 850 Mhz, so it was either rebanded already or always used 85x frequencies and never needed rebanded. So forget the 15 Mhz thing.

At some point the LCN order of the system may have changed. You'll need to ascertain if the LCN order listed in the DB is correct or not. If it isn't, you definitely won't get proper tracking.

Also make sure that when you programmed that bank for trunking, that you set the system type for ED (EDACS).

I don't know if that scanner has an ID SEARCH / Group Wildcard mode. If so, you probably should set it so that it will play the audio for any active talkgroup -- at least while troubleshooting.

If you have a second scanner, program the EDACS system frequencies in conventionally and lock out the active control channel. Then let that scanner continue to scan conventionally, and when you hear activity you can try and see what's happening on the PRO-433 -- You'll want to see if the PRO-433 is even attempting to move to a voice frequency. If it is, it's probably moving to the wrong one and you can use the other scanner to attempt to figure out which one it should be moving to.

Mike

gotcha. That all makes perfect sense. I do have ED set for system type. And last night I was able to get the Sheriff dispatch on 04-121, which I think is odd because the control channel is so strong. I havent been able to get any fire dept traffic at all on it, I couldnt tell if the LE traffic I got was complete conversations or if the LCN might be off. The other thing I might do is when I go to work out in that county I will bring my scanner with me and see if it picks it up. If it does that I am just too far away i guess, even though the control channel is so strong.

 

[Intellifax]

Listening to Ottawa Co TRS now, everything seems to be OK. Using the freqs in the LCN order listed, on a RS PRO-197. I'm 40 miles from Port Clinton, getting a huge signal east of Sunshine Corners.

 

[mtindor]

One thing that might help you.

1. Make note of the active control channel and the LCN (I think it probably shows the actual LCN in the display when trunking that system).

2. When you do get a conversation, try to make note of the frequency the voice activity is on and the LCN associated with it.

In that fashion, you'll at least be able to have relative confidence that the LCN numbering for at least the active control channel and the voice frequencies you heard traffic on are accurate. Fortunately there are only five frequencies [according to the DB] in use on that system. One of them will always be the CC.

Incidentally, according to the DB there are multiple control channels noted, which means that whomever submitted data way back had made note that the control channel rotates [which is common in every EDACS system I listen to]. It may change once a day, once a week, once a month, etc. But it will help you to note when the control channel changes [and then log the LCN announced by that particular control channel frequency].

The key is to try and get used to what the scanner actually tells you about the trunked system you are monitoring. I am not at all familiar with the PRO-433, but am familar with radio shack scanner sin general. And depending upon how you program the frequencies in, when you are sitting on the control channel it will give information such as the LCN and the Site number. If the active control channel is on frequency 1 today, note the LCn reported. When the active control channel changes to be frequency 2, 3, 4 or 5, make note of the LCN the scanner shows. If you are able to monitor the rotating control channels over time, eventually you'll accurately know at least the LCNs associated with all frequencies that have actively been a control channel.

Mike

 

[FireDawgEMT22]

I am in East Toledo, so that puts me about 40 miles driving away from port clinton and I cannot get anything at all on a Pro 433. I did find out that either the frequencies in the DB are already the rebanded ones or Ottawa County never had to move frequencies, so I know that is not an issue. I have the frequencies programmed in LCN 101-105 based on the DB listings for the LCN. I have not gotten a single blurb on the system.

 

[DickH]

I'm sure you've done this, but try SEARCH mode. You should hear all active Talk Groups.

 

[FireDawgEMT22]

I'm sure you've done this, but try SEARCH mode. You should hear all active Talk Groups.

Yeah I tried and havent gotten anything at all...

I get all of the VHF dispatch and the UHF dispatch just cannot get the 800 TRS traffic...I am about 40 miles (driving) away from the transmiter and get a strong signal on the control channel. I think it has to be something with the LCN like he said up there, but his method doesnt seem to work on the pro 433, because it doesnt show me the LCN on the scanner ever...

 

[jerk]

I am in East Toledo, so that puts me about 40 miles driving away from port clinton and I cannot get anything at all on a Pro 433. I did find out that either the frequencies in the DB are already the rebanded ones or Ottawa County never had to move frequencies, so I know that is not an issue. I have the frequencies programmed in LCN 101-105 based on the DB listings for the LCN. I have not gotten a single blurb on the system.

It sounds like you are out of range; system is 100 watts... try an outside antenna up high and/or moving your scanner around. EDACS is my experiences are difficult to receive at a distance.

Can you hear the control channel noise as you manually step through each frequency?

 

[ctpd845]

I am in East Toledo, so that puts me about 40 miles driving away from port clinton and I cannot get anything at all on a Pro 433. I did find out that either the frequencies in the DB are already the rebanded ones or Ottawa County never had to move frequencies, so I know that is not an issue. I have the frequencies programmed in LCN 101-105 based on the DB listings for the LCN. I have not gotten a single blurb on the system.

What type of antena are you using. Your best chance is using a yagi antenna pointed towards Oak Harbor. That's where the main transmit tower is. I have a radio for the system and it will not work at my house so I would have to guess your programming is fine you are just out of range.

Also I would not look for rebanded frequencies in Ottawa County until the end of this year at the earliest, most likely sometime next year.

 

[KC5EIB]

I selected bank 2 on the scanner, entered programming mode and trunk, selected the system as "Ed" and entered the frequencies in the order listed in the database.

Did you start at channel 0 or channel 1? Channel 0 should be blank, LCN1 in channel 1, LCN2 in channel 2, and on to the end

Each channel is also set to ED?

None of the channels are locked out?

 

[FireDawgEMT22]

Did you start at channel 0 or channel 1? Channel 0 should be blank, LCN1 in channel 1, LCN2 in channel 2, and on to the end

Each channel is also set to ED?

None of the channels are locked out?

started at 101 and went to 105, and that bank is set to ED for trunking mode. and nothing is locked out