Pro-96 occasionally goes deaf on certain TG's

[firescannerbob]

OK, this is going to take a while to explain, so bear with me...
One of the feeds I host on here uses a Pro-96 to feed a P25 9600 baud system. All the talk groups I scan for the feed are on the same radio system (same towers, etc), and the TG's I scan are a mix of city and county agencies. The feed is located where it can receive several towers with no problem (over 90%).
Periodically (and with out any ascertainable pattern), the scanner will just stop receiving a random TG. It may be the county fire dispatch TG, or the city fire dispatch TG, or a fireground TG, or whatever. After a while (again, no set pattern), it will start receiving the TG without any intervention from me.

The city and county TG's are in separate banks, but they are exact duplicates of each other, as far as tower CC's, etc. The only difference between the two banks is what TGs are assigned.

I am perplexed as to why this happens. When the scanner mysteriously goes deaf on a TG, it invariably generates a feed problem report, and by the time I check it, everything is working fine again.

I can sure use some help with this...I'm tired of getting the feed problem reports for a problem I have no idea how to remedy. Any ideas, suggestions, solutions, or questions are appreciated.

 

[JoeyC]

Do you have this site set up to receive only one trunking site? Or are you alternating sites?

 

[firescannerbob]

JoeyC: It is (and always has been) set up to scan several sites.
I have locked out sites that have only a marginal signal to keep the scanner from stopping on them and trying to decode them.

 

[JoeyC]

I don't listen to the DTRS, but you may find that some talkgroups are not carried across all sites either because the system was programmed that way, or there is no subscriber radio affiliated with a certain site at a particular moment. You may find that sites A,B and C carry all the CSP talkgroups you want to listen to, but only sites A and B carry Adams county SO (for example) on a regular basis. When and if an Adams county units radio wanders into site Cs range you may hear that on site C also, but only because he has driven his car into the next county to go to court.

In your situation, you aren't going to hear any Adams county traffic when the scanner is cycling through site C, thus giving what appears to be dead talkgroups at times, when if the scanner were cycling on sites A or B at the time, there would be radio traffic.

 

[firescannerbob]

Joey.
I am familiar with the way the DTRS works, and that is why I scan several sites.
But, from my location in Colorado Springs, the CSFD TG's should be active on one or all of the sites I am scanning.
I have verified this problem with another Pro-96 that is programmed identically to the feed scanner. The feed scanner will not be hearing anything, but the other one will be. I thing there is something weird with the feed scanner.
Sometime ago this happened (on another TG), and after trying to figure out the problem, I just reloaded the programming with Win96. It worked fine after that, but I don't know it that was due to reprogramming, or just coincidental.

 

[firescannerbob]

...and for whatever reason, the aforementioned Pro-96 has started receiving the TG's it would not pick up earlier.
Go figure.

 

[mikey60]

OK, this is going to take a while to explain, so bear with me...
One of the feeds I host on here uses a Pro-96 to feed a P25 9600 baud system. All the talk groups I scan for the feed are on the same radio system (same towers, etc), and the TG's I scan are a mix of city and county agencies. The feed is located where it can receive several towers with no problem (over 90%).
Periodically (and with out any ascertainable pattern), the scanner will just stop receiving a random TG. It may be the county fire dispatch TG, or the city fire dispatch TG, or a fireground TG, or whatever. After a while (again, no set pattern), it will start receiving the TG without any intervention from me.

The city and county TG's are in separate banks, but they are exact duplicates of each other, as far as tower CC's, etc. The only difference between the two banks is what TGs are assigned.

I am perplexed as to why this happens. When the scanner mysteriously goes deaf on a TG, it invariably generates a feed problem report, and by the time I check it, everything is working fine again.

I can sure use some help with this...I'm tired of getting the feed problem reports for a problem I have no idea how to remedy. Any ideas, suggestions, solutions, or questions are appreciated.

Is it possible those talkgroups are being patched to another talkgroup on the system for some reason? If you didn't have the talkgroup that the one you're trying to hear is patched to programmed in, you won't hear it in that instance...

It would fit with what you are describing, they would disappear while patched to another talkgroup, and reappear when the patch was removed...

Mike

 

[firescannerbob]

Hi, Mike...
Nope, that's not it (but I hadn't thought of that). The TG's that disappear are usually the dispatch TG's so they're not patched n from anywhere else.
Also, I have confirmed with a second scanner that when the first one goes "deaf", the TG that it is not hearing is indeed active. As I write this, the problem is still occurring...

 

[JoeyC]

When one goes deaf and the other scanner shows otherwise, are the scanners actively tracking different sites or the same? If I were you I would isolate one scanner to one site at a time and log the findings. This so sounds like what I was describing earlier where a talkgroup is only transiently carried over a site. In my area this phenomena occurs often with one particular talkgroup that is carried on the north, south and east sites. The talkgroup is always carried on the north site, and almost always on the east, but only occasionally on the south (which is my strongest signal). This can change from hour to hour or even more frequently as radios in fringe areas of the operational area affiliate to the south site. Now I know that this talkgroup is always carried on the north, I don't even bother programming it in the south site for my stationary at home setup.

 

[radiowatcher_06]

Hey Bob,

This whole thing brings back so many painful and frustrating memories with my old 96 v1.4. It all started when all the sudden I was unable to L/O Broomfield PD Ch1 while monitoring off of Lookout Mountain. Shortly after, all kinds of random TG started leaking through that weren't programed into the scanner when the bank was closed. There is a thread buried somewhere in the Radio Shack forum that goes over binary issues with the 96, which in cretin circumstances allows TG's to pass through. I'll try and find it and post later. I was able to reset the 96 and reload with Win96 which helped block all but Broomfield TG 16, maybe give that a try if it's an option.

Eventually, after breaking the LCD screen, then fixing the LCD screen I gave the scanner to a buddy that just loves listening to everything, even if the scanner leaked tg's that weren't programed into the bank. Of coarse, my old 96 used to motorboat contently while monitoring the old El Paso TRS and your feed has always seemed pretty constant.

Check this

http://forums.radioreference.com/colorado-radio-discussion-forum/52602-tgid-2151-csp.html
http://forums.radioreference.com/radio-shack-scanners/43698-radio-shack-repairs-pro-96-a-2.html
http://forums.radioreference.com/ra...-error-within-16-bit-tgid-field-pro-96-a.html

 

[firescannerbob]

Joey, both scanners are programmed identically (from the same Win96 profile), so I don't think it's a site issue. These two scanners are in the same room, with the same antennas (stock RS antenna), so things couldn't be much more identical.
I understand what you're saying about different TG's on different sites...my initial thinking was that it was exactly that type of issue, but I don't think so. I'm beginning to think this scanner may need service...But...I have reloaded the scanner (re-programmed it), and will see what happens. I'm pretty baffled.

 

[JoeyC]

Joey, both scanners are programmed identically (from the same Win96 profile), so I don't think it's a site issue. These two scanners are in the same room, with the same antennas (stock RS antenna), so things couldn't be much more identical.
I understand what you're saying about different TG's on different sites...my initial thinking was that it was exactly that type of issue, but I don't think so. I'm beginning to think this scanner may need service...But...I have reloaded the scanner (re-programmed it), and will see what happens. I'm pretty baffled.

Just because the 2 scanners are programmed identically, doesn't mean they will trunktrack in unison. One could be on site 1 while the other is on site 2 during the time it takes for the missed traffic to occur. Without stopping the multiple site scanning, it would be difficult to tell.

 

[firescannerbob]

Just because the 2 scanners are programmed identically, doesn't mean they will trunktrack in unison. One could be on site 1 while the other is on site 2 during the time it takes for the missed traffic to occur. Without stopping the multiple site scanning, it would be difficult to tell.

Understood, however, I was able to watch both scanners simultaneously. While sometimes one scanner was stopped on one TG, and the other stopped on another TG, in most cases the (working) scanner was stopped on the TG I wanted to listen to, and other (feed) scanner, just zipped right by it, usually several times.

 

[JoeyC]

Which DTRS sites do you have programmed?

 

[firescannerbob]

Which DTRS sites do you have programmed?

Stanley Canyon, Ski Summit, Austin Bluffs, Cedar Heights, Templeton Gap.

All give me a 95% or better signal.

 

[JoeyC]

What benefit do you get from listening to all those overlapping sites? (from a stationary position)

 

[firescannerbob]

What benefit do you get from listening to all those overlapping sites? (from a stationary position)

I consider it a "fail-safe" situation in case one goes down, or the traffic I want to listen to isn't on just the tower is closest to me.
I guess if the system designers put together a system with overlapping sites, monitoring them like that should work.

 

[rmiller818]

If I understand your first post, you said that in each bank, the frequencies for all the sites are programmed? The only difference from one bank to another is the talkgroups programmed?

I think that is the problem. If you are indeed putting all the sites in one bank, the scanner will only lock onto one of the sites control channels (thus not including the others in the scan) unless you include a random frequency between each of the sites. I think the best thing for your situation would be to program each site you want to monitor in a separate bank, put all of the talkgroups in each bank and then scan all the banks that you programmed with one of those sites.

That make sense or are you already doing that?

 

[firescannerbob]

If I understand your first post, you said that in each bank, the frequencies for all the sites are programmed? The only difference from one bank to another is the talkgroups programmed?

I think that is the problem. If you are indeed putting all the sites in one bank, the scanner will only lock onto one of the sites control channels (thus not including the others in the scan) unless you include a random frequency between each of the sites. I think the best thing for your situation would be to program each site you want to monitor in a separate bank, put all of the talkgroups in each bank and then scan all the banks that you programmed with one of those sites.

That make sense or are you already doing that?

You are correct. In fact, the scanner has 5 banks programmed with identical control channels, with the only difference being the talk groups. For my online feed, however, I just scan two of the banks (city fire and county fire)

I have never heard of doing what you suggest, and my experience with other scanners programmed identically to the one having the problem tells me that it's not an issue. I have two other scanners programmed identically to the one having the problem and none of them display this same problem.

But...it sure can't hurt to try it, I guess.

 

[JoeyC]

I consider it a "fail-safe" situation in case one goes down, or the traffic I want to listen to isn't on just the tower is closest to me.
I guess if the system designers put together a system with overlapping sites, monitoring them like that should work.

Failsafe to the subscriber radio as they affiliate guaranteeing coverage. To the scanner you have no control over what is carried where and are at the mercy of your programming. Always best to NOT program multiple sites in the same bank and expect consistency when the site trunked may change every few minutes. Program as 818 suggests above. One site per bank.