PRO-96 Reception Problems in Highlands Ranch

[LFRfreak]

I have a PRO-96 and I listen to various Douglas County agencies that are on the APCO-25 system. About seventy percent of the time I can hear whatever I am monitoring crystal clear. The other thirty percent of the time, its a jumbled mess. I have even tried the Radioshack 800 MHz antenna, but that doesn't seem to fix the problem. I monitor the system from Highlands Ranch. The control channel that I have been tuning into is 868.83750 MHz.
Does anyone else have a similar problem or know how I can go about fixing it? Could this problem involve any of the scanner's settings?

Thanks,

LFRfreak

 

[jimmnn]

I have a PRO-96 and I listen to various Douglas County agencies that are on the APCO-25 system. About seventy percent of the time I can hear whatever I am monitoring crystal clear. The other thirty percent of the time, its a jumbled mess. I have even tried the Radioshack 800 MHz antenna, but that doesn't seem to fix the problem. I monitor the system from Highlands Ranch. The control channel that I have been tuning into is 868.83750 MHz.
Does anyone else have a similar problem or know how I can go about fixing it? Could this problem involve any of the scanner's settings?

Thanks,

LFRfreak

Greenwood Village control channel should be ok but may not be your best, have you tried any of the others (Littleton T0101, Castle Rock T0103, Riley Peak T0102 or West Creek T0104) depending on where you are those should help and no where in the metro area should you be committed to a single control channel.

As I am mobile around the metro area I scan through about 10 and depending on where I am it will lock on different ones, often making no real sense why one is stronger over another.

Jim<

 

[LFRfreak]

I failed to mention in my first post that I also use West Creek, Golden, Riley Peak, and Castle Rock. However, my scanner will usually go to the Green Wood Control channel. What is the frequency for Littleton? Will the scanner always lock onto control channel that has the strongest signal?

Thanks,

LFRfreak

 

[scanlist]

However, my scanner will usually go to the Green Wood Control channel. What is the frequency for Littleton? Will the scanner always lock onto control channel that has the strongest signal?

I've had some time to look at some of the site behaviours, thanks to the win96com program, and would recommend locking out the Greenwood site as that site along with other sites that were part of the old Arapahoe 800 system allow only agencies that have ties to arapahoe county and deny just about everyone else including state.

If you can I would try for the Lookout Mountain site if possible. Castle Rock would definately be best if not the best for Douglas County TG's.

Problems I've noted with the 96 failing to acquire the control channel other than weak signal or having the squelch set too high has been close proximity to 800 MHz cell sites.

If that's the case use the stock duck as opposed to the 800 duck (some attenuation relief but not always the cure) and, if it does not have it already, get the version 1.2 DSP software upgrade for your scanner. If you can't upgrade it yourself get rad shack (Scary thought) to upgrade it in the store for you. They have the means to program it.

 

[LFRfreak]

Where can I download the 1.2 DSP software? Do I put it on the scanner the same way I would upload frequencies with the win96 program?

Thanks,

LFRfreak

 

[BobWeb]

@LFRfreak - you can get it off the Radio Shack site http://support.radioshack.com/Download/software/pro96u12.exe

@scanlist - good info re the Greenwood control channel. I never had much luck with it anyway.

 

[LFRfreak]

Are there any control channels for Douglas County other than Green Wood, Riley Peak, West Creek, Castle Rock, and Golden? If so, what is the frequency?

Thanks,

LFRfreak

 

[k0pwo]

Regarding scanlist comments made above in this thread. I have been monitoring the greenwood village site here recently and either things have been reprogrammed or it has always been the case, but I see all types of depts affiliating with the greenwood site. A northglen car was on it the other day. CSP is always on it as is DCSO, South metro etc.. I do not think that the site was preprogrammed to affiliate only with Arapahoe county units. I just think cause the location of the site it mainly only acquires signals from ACSO and DCSO the most since those are the cars in that area typically. Besides, you have several other CCs that are at much higher sites looking over that area such as Smoky hill

dave

 

[Steve2003]

It could be a possibility that the other agencies did not have the tower programmed into their radios.

 

[scanlist]

Regarding scanlist comments made above in this thread. I have been monitoring the greenwood village site here recently and either things have been reprogrammed or it has always been the case,

I will take a look at the Greenwood site behaviour this weekend and see if it has changed. At the time of that old post pro96 com was showing a boatload of radios denied with TG's not of Arapahoe agencies origin.

Thorodin also showed denied for Arapahoe county and Loveland FT Collins TG's as well. DRDC was showing denied for everyone except state agencies.

Maybe CCNC is making some site database adjustments.

 

[scanlist]

Still appears that Z1 Site 64 Greenwood Village is still rejecting non Arapahoe and Douglas Agencies with the exception of Auraria Police.

I ran pro96com for about an hour last night and TG's denied inculded:

Funct TG RadioID
Denied 6 38679
Denied 7 38700
Denied 8 38530
Denied 11 39401
Denied 17 40251
Denied 23 15543
Denied 26 15952
Denied 28 15592
Denied 29 39257
Denied 31 40380
Denied 33 39208
Denied 35 15846
Denied 1401 19310
Denied 1417 19844
Denied 1431 23008
Denied 1467 19096
Denied 1479 19150
Denied 1481 20129
Denied 1523 19154
Denied 1535 19753
Denied 2301 36932
Denied 2305 36276
Denied 2381 36978
Denied 2385 36736
Denied 2435 36920
Denied 2443 36873

Allowed included DCSO, Parker, Castle Rock, DCFIRE, Sheridan, Glendale, Greenwood Village, Auraria Police, Arapahoe County, Littleton.

Odd that CSP is generally allowed on every site but this one.

 

[Halfpint]

Still appears that Z1 Site 64 Greenwood Village is still rejecting non Arapahoe and Douglas Agencies with the exception of Auraria Police.

I ran pro96com for about an hour last night and TG's denied inculded:

Funct TG RadioID
Denied 6 38679
[.... Text Bobbited ....]
Denied 2443 36873

Allowed included DCSO, Parker, Castle Rock, DCFIRE, Sheridan, Glendale, Greenwood Village, Auraria Police, Arapahoe County, Littleton.

Odd that CSP is generally allowed on every site but this one.

Probably that old `bug-a-boo', `Poly-tics'? Who knows what ________ (Fill in the blank with whatever turns your crank.) lurks in the `minds?' of the `administrators' of that site? {WAN GRIN!} GW Village and a few other places down thata way have been known to be a tad bit `strange' in the past. After all the years I've lived here along the Front Range I'm not too surprised by just about anything anymore. (That *doesn't* mean that I don't get a tad bit `upset' every now and then, though. {CHORTLE!})

 

[scanlist]

GW Village and a few other places down thata way have been known to be a tad bit `strange' in the past.

Well you can't blame Greenwood or Arapahoe County for this situation. It is alleged that Mot screwed up when upgrading the Arapahoe 800 system that was supposed to a be mixed mode analog/digital ASTRO 25 system and that they programmed all county radios for digital only.

To make a long story short all that is left of the old 5420 Arapahoe system is an idle CC on 859.3125 at the Greenwood site. Everything else was assimillated by the borg err.. state.

Also while I'm on the subject of state acquisitions the 9600 baud P25 upgrade for the Colorado Springs/El Paso system in the next year or so sounds like they too will be at the mercy of the state once it's said and done. Sad that they will probably have the same fate that the former NCCA (Loveland/Ft Collins) system as in losing control on how they use the system.


I'm surprised they haven't tried to take over the Xcel Energy ASTRO system in Boulder.

 

[Halfpint]

GW Village and a few other places down thata way have been known to be a tad bit `strange' in the past.

Well you can't blame Greenwood or Arapahoe County for this situation. It is alleged that Mot screwed up when upgrading the Arapahoe 800 system that was supposed to a be mixed mode analog/digital ASTRO 25 system and that they programmed all county radios for digital only.

I didn't even want to throw in *that* particular `can-of-worms'. {WAN GRIN!} Figured that if it wasn't GWV or one of the others then `BatWings' was the remaining `problem' and didn't need any more `disCUSSion' here as it's well covered in other threads.

To make a long story short all that is left of the old 5420 Arapahoe system is an idle CC on 859.3125 at the Greenwood site. Everything else was assimillated by the borg err.. state.

I ran across that one when we were down that way for Channaukah and after digging through the lists kinda figured that it was `a borg dropping' (Great, RE: Borg / State, description, BTW. {VB GRIN!} [Was `The Great Bird of the Galaxy' AKA Gene Roddenberry a `seer'?])

Also while I'm on the subject of state acquisitions the 9600 baud P25 upgrade for the Colorado Springs/El Paso system in the next year or so sounds like they too will be at the mercy of the state once it's said and done. Sad that they will probably have the same fate that the former NCCA (Loveland/Ft Collins) system as in losing control on how they use the system.

Well... {WAN GRIN!} There can only be one `chief' everyone else *has* to be just `indians' don'tcha know. Even though it's the `indians' who probably know more about their `area(s)' / `business' than `The Chief'. {FROWN!}

I'm surprised they haven't tried to take over the Xcel Energy ASTRO system in Boulder.

Ye Gads! *Don't* give them any ideas! (As much as I may carp about Xcell Energy / Pubic... err... Public Service Co I wouldn't want to wish *that* upon them! {CHORTLE!})

 

[Thayne]

My WAN never grins, and the LAN is working good now, but sometimes it does sound like the CAT chortles . . . :?

 

[Steve2003]

Still having problems in Highlands Ranch? My scanner is working fine from my house near Highlands Ranch Parkway & Wildcat Reserve. If you are still having problems, I would be glad to send my win96 file.


-Steve

 

[k0pwo]

Phil,

I have been monitoring the Greenwood site this weekend and CSP units come up on the greewood site as do some of the north city units. I noticed that you mentioned that thordon denies some depts also. I see this as a major liability issue. So this makes me wonder. I know nothing about the software and programming parameters of the apco 25 digital stuff so this is a guess.

Do you think that it is possible for the controller at each tower site to be programmed to reject weak signals thinking that the radio sending the signal to affiliate should be able to find a closer tower site to its position? it would make sense to program these radios and controllers to do just that. To reject the affiliating radio until its signal levels is at a preset level so that the site does not get overloaded. I would also imagine that if the controller continues to see the same request from that radio for affiliation that it means that the radio cannot affiliate with any other towere and after several attemps that controller will allow the weak signal to affiliate.

My thinking is otherwise the liability of not letting a radio affiliate could be cause of a deadly situation some day and the public and the dept finding out that the officer could not call for help because he was denied on that tower would be astronomical.

I am thinking that something like this is what you are seeing on the greenwood site and the thordon site. Just my thoughts sense I see CSP units using the greenwood site down here.

Dave

 

[scanlist]

I have been monitoring the Greenwood site this weekend and CSP units come up on the greewood site as do some of the north city units.

Which CC frequency are you using by chance?

I noticed that you mentioned that thordon denies some depts also. I see this as a major liability issue. So this makes me wonder. I know nothing about the software and programming parameters of the apco 25 digital stuff so this is a guess.

This is something that you would need to ask the CCNC folks about. I kind of see what is behind this as the TG's that are denied are not in the sites intended target area. Then again sites at greater distances allow TG's that are nowhere near them as well. I've seen this with Westcreek.

My thinking is otherwise the liability of not letting a radio affiliate could be cause of a deadly situation some day and the public and the dept finding out that the officer could not call for help because he was denied on that tower would be astronomical.

I would hope that in the case of an emergency declaration (Pushing the orange button) that it would override default site behaviour in the case of normally disallowing the user's TG.

 

[SCPD]

Phil is right, the Greenwood Village site denies affiliations for certain talk groups. They do this because they simply don't have enough channels in that site. They only do this on a few sites.

When a radio receives a deny, it simply moves on to the next strongest CC in it's list. This is based on pre-programmed frequencies as well as the neighbor list that is transmitted from the site. The idea is that there is overlapping coverage from other sites. Remember that the Greenwood Village site was not there originally and CSP and others just used other sites while they were in that area.

It's not the ideal solution to a channel shortage, but it can work. If/when they add more channels (maybe 700 MHz), they can open it up to more talk groups. But 700 adds a new level of complication. The controller has to keep track of which radios are 700 capable and which ones aren't.

BTW, just to clear something up again, assuming DTRS does use 700 MHz for voice and not just data, your Pro-96 will not work. Not only will it not work properly in trunking mode, I checked the sensitivity of the Pro-96 in the 700 band and it is terrible. Also, it has a low IF freq. which brings in a bunch of images from the 800 band into the 700 band.

So, just because the Win 96 program opens up the synthesizer for 700, it doesn't mean the Pro-96 was designed for 700 MHz. It wasn't.

 

[tracker1]

Greenwood Village Coverage Plot

I entered the FCC License coordinates, transmit power, and antenna height for the DTRS Greenwood Village site into Radio Manager and came up with this plot. It gives a rough idea of what coverage area you can expect.