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PRO 97 Closed Group Operation

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GeoffJ

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Nov 6, 2005
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I am a novice's novice when it comes to scanning please help - I have a Radioshack PRO 97 but it appears I do not understand the "Closed" group option.

If I set the bank to mode "MO" and channels to mode "MO" I receive no transmissions.
If I set the bank to mode "MO" and channels to mode "FM" I receive all talkgroups but no talkgroup display.
If I set the bank to mode "??" and channels to mode "MO" I receive all talkgroups.
If I set the bank to mode "??" and channels to mode "FM" I do not see talkgroup display but I still appear to receive all talkgroups.

I think I have described the issue correctly but as a novice I am easily confused.
Any assistance would be appreciated - thanks!, Geoff.
 

YFZBOB

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Messages
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Location
Hesperia, SoCal
In open mode the scanner will receive:
(1) all channels in AM, FM, CT and DC modes, that are not locked out.
(2) all IDs in MO and ED modes, even if they are locked out in the ID list.

In closed mode the scanner will receive:
(1) all channels in AM, FM, CT and DC modes, that are not locked out.
(2) only IDs in MO, ED, and LT modes that are programmed into the ID list, and not locked out in the ID list
 

GeoffJ

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Understood - unfortunately your item 2 under closed mode does not seem to be true, unless I have the modes messed up. I have all talkgroups I want programmed and some others programmed but locked out. However, based on the bank mode/channel mode I posted previously, I receive talkgroups which I do not want and do not have programmed and also some I have locked out.
Do I need the bank or the channels in "MO" or both or neither for closed to function? The book says (paraphrased) "if you want to listen in closed mode you may have to change the receive mode" and that is fine except the book does not state "how" to set the modes correctly it simply reitterates the descriptions of each of the modes.
 

W4KRR

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If you are programming a Motorola trunked system, both the bank and the frequencies must be set to "MO". If you are programming an EDACS system, both the frequencies and bank must be set to "ED". In both of these cases, setting the banks to "open" mode allows you to receive all talkgroups in the system while scanning. Setting the bank to "Closed" mode means you must have at least one or more talkgroups programmed into the memory in order to pick up anything.

"FM" just means receiving in FM mode. "CT" is used when you want to make use of CTCSS tones, sometimes called "PL tones. "DC" is for digital CTCSS. FM, CT, and DC are not used in conjunction with trunked systems.
 

GeoffJ

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Thanks anyway folks - I set the mode on both the banks and channels and, as I stated in my original post, have not received any transmissions in 6 minutes. Since I am monitoring police, and regularly hear transmissions every minute, I assume this is not correct. I guess I have a defective unit (it is out of warranty but this is the first time I tried to set "Closed Mode"), I should not have bought a "toy" from Radioshack or I am not destined to be a scanner listener.

Thanks to all for trying but I probably should give up on closed mode.
 

W4KRR

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GeoffJ said:
Thanks anyway folks - I set the mode on both the banks and channels and, as I stated in my original post, have not received any transmissions in 6 minutes. Since I am monitoring police, and regularly hear transmissions every minute, I assume this is not correct. I guess I have a defective unit (it is out of warranty but this is the first time I tried to set "Closed Mode"), I should not have bought a "toy" from Radioshack or I am not destined to be a scanner listener.

Thanks to all for trying but I probably should give up on closed mode.
Do you have talkgroups programmed in? If not, then you'll never hear anything in closed mode. Do you hear anything if you switch to open mode? If you do, then the problem is likely the mode settings. If this is a Motorola system, are you sure that the bank and all the frequencies are set to "MO"? If you hear nothing in open or closed mode, then maybe you're missing the control channel. That's about all that could be wrong.
 

GeoffJ

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Nov 6, 2005
Messages
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PRO 97 Closed Group Option

W4KRR said:
Do you have talkgroups programmed in? If not, then you'll never hear anything in closed mode. Do you hear anything if you switch to open mode? If you do, then the problem is likely the mode settings. If this is a Motorola system, are you sure that the bank and all the frequencies are set to "MO"? If you hear nothing in open or closed mode, then maybe you're missing the control channel. That's about all that could be wrong.
Well I appreciate your efforts but I tried to explain things in more detail and the "darn" page appears to have timed out so all my input was lost. Since I am already frustrated with the scanner I am reluctant to re type all the data I lost in my last reply/post. But I will type my detail description in to a ".txt" file and cut and paste it here for my next post.

I must say though that some of the points raised in the replies so far were I thought addressed in the original post. I will try to post again as soon as I have typed the situation in more detail.
 

GeoffJ

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Nov 6, 2005
Messages
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Quoted from last but one reply

Originally Posted by W4KRR
Do you have talkgroups programmed in? If not, then you'll never hear anything in closed mode. Do you hear anything if you switch to open mode? If you do, then the problem is likely the mode settings. If this is a Motorola system, are you sure that the bank and all the frequencies are set to "MO"? If you hear nothing in open or closed mode, then maybe you're missing the control channel. That's about all that could be wrong.

Quoted from last but one reply


I hope I do not offend anyone with anything I say or have said - it is only my frustration showing through.
I really do appreciate your efforts so here is my try at explaining the situation in more detail. I have used cut and paste to avoid "webpage time out" while typing my reply.

Bank mode to "MO" channels mode to "MO" no transmissions and the scanner jumps from bank to bank but never stops on any transmission.
OPEN/CLOSED has no effect on what I see or hear

Bank to mode "MO" channels mode to "FM" I receive all transmissions from all talkgroups in or out of my list but no talkgroup ID display.
OPEN/CLOSED has no effect on what I see or hear

Bank mode to "??" and channels to mode "FM" I do not see talkgroup display but I still appear to receive all talkgroups.
OPEN/CLOSED has no effect on what I see or hear

Bank mode to "??" channels mode to "MO" I receive all talkgroups with ID display whther they are in my list or not.
OPEN/CLOSED has no effect on what I see or hear


In each of the above being in open or closed mode makes no difference to what I see or hear.

Yes this is a Motorola Type II 800mhz system and yes I do have the control frequency (which changes on a daily basis) I know I have this because in "MO" mode there is always one channel which alternates between "Control" and "Sys - talkgroup(s).

Yes I check each channel whenever I change the channel modes and I check the display whenever I change the bank mode. I can only rely on the display since I know of no simple method of checking exactly what the scanner is set to outside of what the "darn" thing displays to me.

As I said I am a scanner novice so perhaps I have not clearly explained the problem. Therefore, I will use some examples.

Bank = "??" channels = "FM" all transmissions received as one would expect. But there is no talkgroup ID display also as one would expect.

Bank ="??" channels = "MO" all transmissions received and the talkgroup display appears functional. But it matters not if I have the ID programmed in the list or not it gets them all police/fire/water/streets when all I want is police and fire.

Bank ="MO" channels = "FM" all transmissions received but no talkgroup ID display. Again it matters not if I have the ID programmed in the list or not nor if the ID is locked out (according to the display) it gets them all police/fire/water/streets when all I want is police and fire.

Bank ="MO" channels = "MO" no transmissions received and the scanner jumps from bank to bank without ever stopping on any transmission.

Examples that I hope are even more detailed

Bank ="MO" channels = "FM" police/fire/water/streets all received but no talkgroup ID display, Whether or not I have that particular ID programmed in the list nor if the ID is programmed but locked out.
I. E. police ID XXXXX received - fire ID YYYYY received - water "WWWWW" received even though that ID is not in my ID list - streets "SSSSS" received even though that ID is in my list but shows to be locked out.

Bank ="??" channels = "MO" police/fire/water/streets all received with the talkgroup ID display apparently functional, Whether or not I have that particular ID programmed in the list nor if the ID is programmed but locked out.
I. E. police ID XXXXX received - fire ID YYYYY received - water "WWWWW" received even though that ID is not in my ID list - streets "SSSSS" received even though that ID is in my list but shows to be locked out.

Again the OPEN or CLOSED mode has no effect on what I see or hear.

I am not trying to be offensive - I am just frustrated that I did not feel confident enough to try the OPEN/CLOSED mode before the warranty expired.
 

jeffrey420

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May 30, 2006
Messages
357
What system is it?( State/County/System?) How many differant freqs. do the use as control channels? What channels do you have programed in the scanner?

Most of all, need system info......
 

GeoffJ

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Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
10
PRO 97 Closed Group Option

jeffrey420 said:
What system is it?( State/County/System?) How many differant freqs. do the use as control channels? What channels do you have programed in the scanner?

Most of all, need system info......
The system is Sys ID #3004 Motorola Type II 800mhz for Plano Safety Communications in the City of Plano, Texas. I have channels 00 - 14 in bank 0 and, since I started trying to this beast to work, I now have the same frequencies programmed into channels 00-14 in bank 1. Not all of the available talkgroups are programmed into the ID list opf either bank.

The control channel changes on a daily basis so I am unsure how to answer that part of your qestion.

Again thanks to all who are trying to help me.
 

KE5BCP

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Messages
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Location
Lewisville, TX
Program in only the control channels (the red ones) listed here:
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&sid=63
The Pro-97 does not need the rest of the frequencies, only the control channels.
As others have stated, make sure the bank is set to MOT and make sure each freq channel is set to MOT.
The scanner will determine the voice channel.
Toggle between "open" (+) and "closed" (-) mode by pressing MAN FUNC ".".
Your programming will be much more simple using Win97:
http://www.starrsoft.com
 

YFZBOB

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Jun 22, 2006
Messages
52
Location
Hesperia, SoCal
See if this will work...
Reset your fleet-map to Type II

Press pgm - then the T button
next press Function ( F) BUTTON and 8
this takes you to the size code settings
enter 15 then press enter, that will make that bank a type 2 system
 

GeoffJ

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Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
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PRO 97 Closed Group Operation - Thanks To All

Thanks to everyone for a) the help and b) your patience with a real novice who perhaps became a little too frustrated with this whole process.

I am now a "happy camper"! And it is all thanks to your assitance and experience thanks!
Now I can say I love scanning again.

Believe it or not I learned something from each of your reply postings but the two that seem to have had a correcting effect on my issue are the last two - but in reverse order.
I performed the actions in the order they were posted without success but then I tried them in reverse order - in other words first I did this

YFZBOB ***
See if this will work...
Reset your fleet-map to Type II

Press pgm - then the T button
next press Function ( F) BUTTON and 8
this takes you to the size code settings
enter 15 then press enter, that will make that bank a type 2 system

then I did this

W5JSS ***
Program in only the control channels (the red ones) listed here:
http://www.radioreference.com/module...name=RR&sid=63
The Pro-97 does not need the rest of the frequencies, only the control channels.
As others have stated, make sure the bank is set to MOT and make sure each freq channel is set to MOT.
The scanner will determine the voice channel.
Toggle between "open" (+) and "closed" (-) mode by pressing MAN FUNC ".".
Your programming will be much more simple using Win97:
http://www.starrsoft.com

I am confident that everything I did, based on each of your replies (yes I did something after each of your replies even if it was only to recheck or redo what I had done before), while trying to make this feature work contributed to the final successful outcome - thanks to you all!
Special thanks to W5JSS *** and YFZBOB *** and even "more specialler" thanks to all of you for your pateience and understanding.

Did I forget to say "Thank You All"? No I guess not - but just in case thank you all.
 

GeoffJ

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
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YFZBOB said:
Glad we could be of some help!
There are items covered in this site, that the manual doesn't cover.
ONLINE Pro-97 Manual
Some say "tom a to" and some say "tom ar to" - you say "some help" and I say "collectively you saved my sanity". Thanks for the additional information I will check it out "asap".
I now know the "manual" supplied with the scanner would not be detailed enough for my customers. It seems to omit things which are vital. Perhaps a technical writer or two would not go amiss. (Now Geoff, do not be nasty.)

Bye till next time.
 
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