PRO96COM "Site Information" "flavor 2"

W4UVV

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
1,595
Location
Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
I finally got PRO96COM 11.7.1 to work on my computer no thanks to my USB controller which assigns something other than "COM1". "COM9" was the magic comm port. I installed the latest version which is several years old, but regardless, on the "Site Information" sub-link there is a new, to me, data element "Flavor "Phase 2" display. I am monitoring the Richmond VA VSP Div 1 STARS site. As of now the entire state comm system is Phase 1 only. Rumors are that the state system in the future will support both emission modes.

Am I to understand that this STARS radio system site has had some software enhancements for APCO Phase 2 support although no P2 signals now used? If not, what does it mean?

Does "flavor" represent the type of type emission mode able to support P2 now or when it is P1 and P2 what will "flavor" display?

If "flavor" means something else, what does it mean? Tnx.

A screen capture of the PRO96COM "Site Information" is attached.

John:)
W4UVV
 

Attachments

devicelab

Whacker Extraordinaire
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
556
Location
Bothell, WA
John that value has always been flakey and I'm not sure what data is being used to set that variable. It could be something he's reading on the control channel side. I never confirmed if it's possible but I would presume it's possible to have a control channel that's Phase 2 P25 but not actively using Phase 2 configuration data.

You can tell what the site is using by just looking at the frequencies. If you see 155.5375/0 and 155.5375/1 then you know it's TDMA which is Phase 2 P25. If you don't see that in the frequency list then it's not using Phase 2. Phase 1 P25 is FDMA.

Here's an informative overview of Phase 2 P25 that I'd highly recommend reading:

 

GTR8000

NYS Database Guy
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
8,131
Location
BEE00
I've seen it show Phase 2 w/o any TDMA activity.
Right, which is the expected behavior. The control channel spits out the IDEN_UP_TDMA (band plan) opcodes, and so if the system/site is configured with any TDMA band plan entries, the software is going to show it as a Phase II capable system. Unitrunker does the same thing. There's nothing flaky about it, it's simply reporting what the control channel is broadcasting.
 

devicelab

Whacker Extraordinaire
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
556
Location
Bothell, WA
Right, which is the expected behavior. The control channel spits out the IDEN_UP_TDMA (band plan) opcodes, and so if the system/site is configured with any TDMA band plan entries, the software is going to show it as a Phase II capable system. Unitrunker does the same thing. There's nothing flaky about it, it's simply reporting what the control channel is broadcasting.
And how does a typical user know this? They likely don't. So if there's no TDMA activity shown then it's at least confusing. I'm not saying the code is flakey -- just what the end result is...
 

W4UVV

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
1,595
Location
Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
John that value has always been flakey and I'm not sure what data is being used to set that variable. It could be something he's reading on the control channel side. I never confirmed if it's possible but I would presume it's possible to have a control channel that's Phase 2 P25 but not actively using Phase 2 configuration data.

You can tell what the site is using by just looking at the frequencies. If you see 155.5375/0 and 155.5375/1 then you know it's TDMA which is Phase 2 P25. If you don't see that in the frequency list then it's not using Phase 2. Phase 1 P25 is FDMA.

Here's an informative overview of Phase 2 P25 that I'd highly recommend reading:

-------------
Thanks devicelab for your response.

Here's a quick synopsis of the Virginia State Radio System. Installation began in 2000 and finished about 2010. There are 37 sites statewide which support talkgroups for the VSP, Fish & Game, Forestry, etc. All sites are Motorola Phase 1. There is no Phase 2 trs operation. That was what confusing me. Conversely, a Phase 1 & Phase 2 is in the near future plans. I am familiar with the difference in frequency construction of P1 and P2 frequencies. Although not a large of P2 trs dominate the state, via county and city trs and many upgrading to P1 & P2, and P2 only. One of the long goals of the FCC for using P2 was the TDMA feature, attempting to standardize interop comms, requiring digital emission modes, and where possible on 700 mhz. etc.

I agree with GRT8000's conclusion that "FLAVOR "Phase " signifies that the current P1 trs has enhanced capability now also to additionally support a Phase 2 trs. Translation: As soon as the money is funded, conversion to a P1 & P2 trs probably will begin when the new (700 mhz.?) I have not noticed any new VSP license applications yet. In 2000 when the new P1 installations began the state/big buck consultant screwed up and realized it did not have enough vhf licensed frequencies available for use at all 37 sites. That resulted in and emergency call to the FCC which issued a letter license for about 4 or 5 vhf additional frequencies in the 151 mhz. and 152 mhz. range. However that was not enough. It took almost 9 years, including using defunct Marine Operator frequencies in the lower portion of the Marine ship to shore 161 mhz. range finally to support enough frequencies to finish all sites..
--------------
P1= NNN.NNNN MHZ. (Currently STARS)
P2= NNN.NNNNN MHZ. (For existing state P2 city & county trs only).

I thank all of you who responded to me. The next time I can access the PRO96COM special link on Yahoo now administered by Verizon which has made one big mess of the various groups. Previously there were no problems then. Well, It does now. Anyway, I can ask the creator as he usually participates and answers questions.

John:)
W4UVV
.
 

MtnBiker2005

Member
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
2,865
Location
San Diego County, California
Pro96com yahoogroups moved to Groups.io
It's the 'Scanner' group under subgroup 'Pro96com'.

 

milf

Careful, I CAN hear you!
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
13,419
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Almost ALL Motorola P25 systems are updating to the newest Version of ASTRO-25. The new version is Phase II ready from the rip. The system has to be configured to allow TDMA data to be passed in the CC data stream. If this was done, it will pass TDMA data, even if there is not a single TDMA TG in a single codeplug anywhere. This will most likely cause confusion as Unitrunker, Pro96Com etc will show that and hence display it as a Phase II system. Although the ASTRO-25 version is Phase II TDMA capable, thus allowing the system to technically be capable, only the controllers are TDMA "ready". The whole system would still need a few tweaks, and radios upgraded or replaced with TDMA capable gear, and new codeplugs put in to make the whole network "ready". Though STARS might have the new ASTRO-25 version already installed, thus making it Phase II "Capable", it is like many others, by no means Phase II "Ready". Once they do get things completely lined up and radios set up, then the system will be put in Dual Dynamic Mode to allow both FDMA, and TDMA use until they decide to go pure TDMA. If anyone has contacts with the STARS administrative body, they will put out notifications when the first testing and initial transitioning will begin. If they are going to go all TDMA, they will also put out an official statement saying "No new FDMA TG's will be allowed on the system",.. And eventually put out a notice that all FDMA is to be discontinued by XXXX date. The "No New FDMA" notices are all out and in effect for AWIN, MSWIN, TACN. SAFE-T is upgrading to the new ASTRO-25 over this year, and IPSC has stated no TDMA on the system this year. Its pushed back until a few more sites are brought online, and they are giving another year for users to get newer radios. (Originally TDMA was to begin testing on select sites, but as usual, delays.) Close monitoring of a system's data stream will reveal if TDMA is allowed or is not. Both UT and Pro96Com do have a screen you can watch that data stream, and you can see if there is a TDMA "refusal or denial", or an acceptance of the system ack/query.
 

W4UVV

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
1,595
Location
Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
Pro96com yahoogroups moved to Groups.io
It's the 'Scanner' group under subgroup 'Pro96com'.

Tnx for the Yahoo groups info info but I am well aware of the PRO96COM group among others. When the move was made last year to the Yahoo groups our moderator for 996XLT group automatically transferred all the protocols for access and use on the new groups. They worked but I rarely use them. I get the daily summaries on what I'm subscribed to so it is just a matter catching a PRO96COM post and pivoting from there. Right now it is not a high priority with me. Tnx again.

John:)
W4UVV
 

W4UVV

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
1,595
Location
Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
Almost ALL Motorola P25 systems are updating to the newest Version of ASTRO-25. The new version is Phase II ready from the rip. The system has to be configured to allow TDMA data to be passed in the CC data stream. If this was done, it will pass TDMA data, even if there is not a single TDMA TG in a single codeplug anywhere. This will most likely cause confusion as Unitrunker, Pro96Com etc will show that and hence display it as a Phase II system. Although the ASTRO-25 version is Phase II TDMA capable, thus allowing the system to technically be capable, only the controllers are TDMA "ready". The whole system would still need a few tweaks, and radios upgraded or replaced with TDMA capable gear, and new codeplugs put in to make the whole network "ready". Though STARS might have the new ASTRO-25 version already installed, thus making it Phase II "Capable", it is like many others, by no means Phase II "Ready". Once they do get things completely lined up and radios set up, then the system will be put in Dual Dynamic Mode to allow both FDMA, and TDMA use until they decide to go pure TDMA. If anyone has contacts with the STARS administrative body, they will put out notifications when the first testing and initial transitioning will begin. If they are going to go all TDMA, they will also put out an official statement saying "No new FDMA TG's will be allowed on the system",.. And eventually put out a notice that all FDMA is to be discontinued by XXXX date. The "No New FDMA" notices are all out and in effect for AWIN, MSWIN, TACN. SAFE-T is upgrading to the new ASTRO-25 over this year, and IPSC has stated no TDMA on the system this year. Its pushed back until a few more sites are brought online, and they are giving another year for users to get newer radios. (Originally TDMA was to begin testing on select sites, but as usual, delays.) Close monitoring of a system's data stream will reveal if TDMA is allowed or is not. Both UT and Pro96Com do have a screen you can watch that data stream, and you can see if there is a TDMA "refusal or denial", or an acceptance of the system ack/query.
------------
MILF: Tnx very much taking the time to discuss the aspects of FDMA vice TDMA and impacts resulting from the decisions made, etc. It appears that the state of Virginia will have some technical decisions to make. No matter. Whatever is decided no doubt it will require more tax payers funding.

Uh Oh! Shame on me!
I just remembered a unique P1 & P2 state/county trs that was installed about 18 months ago. There are two high security prisons in VA. Sussex 1 & Sussex 2 are located in Sussex Co. and designed similar to the Colorado federal prison...no windows just vertical slits with a view of ony the sky for most of the prison. They house the higher risk prisoners. The second state prison is dedicated in part for executions. It is located in Greensville Co. about 25 air miles south of Sussex 1 & 2 prisons in Sussex Co. Sussex Co. also needed a new radio system. There also is a VSP area office located in Sussex Co.

The state needed also needed a trs for Sussex 1 & 2 prisons and Greensville state prison. The decision was made to include Sussex Co. A P1 & P2 trs was built with a 3 tower configuration. Sussex Co. Law enforcement P1 is encrypted as is all jail/comms. The county VFD/EMS and a few other talkroups are unencrypted. It is known as the "Sussex Co./VSP/Prisons" trs. That's where the "P2" is sourced. Both Sussex 1 & 2 and the Greensville prison soley are using P2 only encrypted comms with a few unencrypted voice comms. This trs is not affiliated with STARS but is a separate trs. A STARS site tower is located in Sussex Co. also. The VSP mobile's comms MUST use a separate radio in the car for prison comms trs only. The VSP mobile's comms must use their STARS radio for VSP comms.

Using PRO96COM on a few VSP divisions I can monitor a few other STARS sites, “flavor Phase 2” displays on every site's cc. I selected Most likely it will display the same for all 7 VSP STARS divisions. The reason I had not thought of it previously was all comms, except for a few Sussex co. comms, were encrypted. It is a unique county/trs trs involving a single county and two prisons.


Thanks to everyone who responded!

John
:oops:
W4UVV



 
Top