problem activating pl operated quantar rptr with narrow band radio

[ronenp]

Hi there
Is there any solution to allow pl activated wide band configured Quantar Repeater do be able to key up with narrow band radios ?
The problem is that the PL deviation of the narrow band radio is too low to be detected by the quantar (that is configured to wide band)
We can not move the quantar to narrow band because there are a lot of radios that are Wideband (such as MaxTRAC that it is impossible to convert them to narrow band ...
the last repeater that was MSR2000 which used external PL decoder (of ComSpec or Selectone) was more sensitive and decoded the PL but since the quantar have a Built in PL decoder we dont want to modify the hardware ...
Any help would be welcome
Thanks Forward
Ronen - 4Z4ZQ
Ronen Pinchooks (4Z4ZQ) WebSite

 

[jim202]

It would help to understand just how this repeater is being used and for what service.

Is this repeater being used for commercial or ham operation? If in ham service, then why use it in the narrow band operation. Most of the radios available in the ham area are all wide band operation. There is no reason to operate a repeater in the ham service in narrow band mode. it will just cause problems as your seeing.

If your operating the unit in a commercial service, then all radios need to be in the same mode. Depending on where you are and the regulations you operate under, all radios must use the same bandwidth operating mode. To try and use a mix of both wide and narrow band radios is just plain asking for the problems you are experiencing. If you really want to operate in the narrow band mode, then program those radios that are using wide band to narrow. If the radios are too old to be able to operate in narrow band mode, they will have to be replaced.

Again, the bottom line is drawn in the sand based on what rules you are required to operate under.

 

[WA0CBW]

As stated above as of Jan 1, 2013 most Part 90 Commercial VHF and UHF radios were required to be narrowbanded or replaced to comply with the narrowbanding requirements. There are a few exceptions so check the rules concerning the frequencies you may be using. Again ALL the radios need to be either wide or narrow to work properly.
BB

 

[mikewazowski]

As stated above as of Jan 1, 2013 most Part 90 Commercial VHF and UHF radios were required to be narrowbanded or replaced to comply with the narrowbanding requirements. There are a few exceptions so check the rules concerning the frequencies you may be using. Again ALL the radios need to be either wide or narrow to work properly.
BB

I think you need to look at his callsign. Part 90 doesn't apply anywhere outside the US.

 

[WA0CBW]

Thanks Mike,
I focused on the question and not on the location. I forget that this forum is multi-national. I hate it when that happens! With that in mind it will still be difficult to get it to work with both wide and narrow bandwidths.
BB

 

[KG4INW]

Are you able to reprogram the narrow radios for wideband? That seems like it would solve your issue.

 

[zz0468]

The PL sensitivity of the Quantar is about 300 Hz deviation in wideband, and about 150 Hz in narrow band. So, when running narrow band mobiles into a Quantar set for wideband, the PL deviation coming from the mobiles will be right on the ragged edge of decoding. There is no way to adjust this in the Quantar. You either need to make all mobile radios the same bandwidth and match whatever the Quantar is, or perhaps you could run the PL deviation of the narrow band radios up to about 500 hz.

 

[ronenp]

Thank you all for your answers
the question was not if it is legal it was if it can be done .....
Thank u zz... for the technical answer that what i was looking for by the way where this info from ? is it from tests u made or from any kind of spec ?
seem to me that im in trouble ...

and now to the answers to all the others
it is Ham repeater of course that ham still work with wide band radios (most of them) but there are some narrow band radios also that can not converted to Wide band such as SmartPhones with built in walkie talkie .... and they are narrow band and can not activate anymore the quantar ....
well see what we can do .... maybe the worst solution would be adding external PL decoder (which will have better sensitivity) but as i said i would not like to modify the repeater ....

Regards
Ronen - 4Z4ZQ
Ronen Pinchooks (4Z4ZQ) WebSite

 

[zz0468]

Thank u zz... for the technical answer that what i was looking for by the way where this info from ? is it from tests u made or from any kind of spec ?

My information is from tests and observations by myself and my colleagues, and dozens of radios. I've not seen a spec from Motorola stating what it specifically is, but this is what's been observed. The PL decoding is done with DSP within the radio, and it behaves as if the the sensitivity is programmed to be what it is. Switching to narrowband increases the sensitivity to 150 hz. Variation across dozens of radios tested is minimal.

seem to me that im in trouble ...

They don't deal well with operating outside their programmed bandwidth, that's for sure. There are a few clever things you could do to mitigate it though, but there's always a price to be paid.

it is Ham repeater of course that ham still work with wide band radios (most of them) but there are some narrow band radios also that can not converted to Wide band such as SmartPhones with built in walkie talkie ....

You could try running the Quantar in narrow mode, and tell the wideband operators to back off their mikes if they talk to loud. Fact is, though, most mobile transmitters are under-deviated, so I would actually be surprised if it's much of a problem.

If that doesn't work, try what was suggested before. Run the repeater in wide, and increase the narrow radio's PL to 500 Hz deviation.

...maybe the worst solution would be adding external PL decoder (winch will have better sensitivity) but as i said i would not like to modify the repeater ....

I think you'll find that adding an external decoder to a Quantar will be an exercise in frustration, unless you're running with an external controller.