HP-1: Problems with Favorites List

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kaiserfan

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Once again the HP1 dose something that makes no sense I Have a favorites list with numeros channels in it and ALL THE RIGHT SERVICE TYPE ARE ACTIVE and NOTHING IS AVOIDED but when i go to use it it shows one dam channel here's a link to a video i made to show what is doing YouTube
so the experts here can't tell me it dosen't happen why dose it do this
 

JamesO

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Video is currently private, so nobody can view it.

For the Favorites list, if you made this from scratch, the Service Type defaults to Custom 1, you need to make sure the Service Type is correct on each channel/TGID that has been entered.

Also make sure the Favorite List is turned on to scan AND the Distance is not a limiting factor.

All of these newer scanners, GRE/RS and Uniden have MORE ways not to scan and ONLY 1 way to properly scan!!!

Too many fields, too much not intuitive.

I just was playing with a Radio Shack PRO-197 and it was easy to program wrong with the WIN500 software. The first column in the software was "ID", this WAS NOT the TGID!! This was the memory position ID. The "Group or Radio ID" was the TGID, but this lead me to believe that the Radio ID was the Unit ID based on the fact is was listed as "Group or Radio ID". So the first attempt at programming, radio did not trunk or receive anything. Took a while to figure out that the "Radio ID" = TGID!! Once this was resolved, then you had to also have the TGID associated with the Trunked System AND the proper ID List configured and enabled

So all of these radios and software are enough to drive you crazy as there is nothing uniform, clear or with a brief description.

90% of all problems with receiving things seem to be configuration issues, the other 9% has to do with the antenna/reception or multipath, the last 1% or less is actually a hardware problem.

Good luck, do not give up, you are very close to getting things working.
 

kaiserfan

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Saginaw MI
Video is currently private, so nobody can view it.

For the Favorites list, if you made this from scratch, the Service Type defaults to Custom 1, you need to make sure the Service Type is correct on each channel/TGID that has been entered.

Also make sure the Favorite List is turned on to scan AND the Distance is not a limiting factor.

All of these newer scanners, GRE/RS and Uniden have MORE ways not to scan and ONLY 1 way to properly scan!!!

Too many fields, too much not intuitive.

I just was playing with a Radio Shack PRO-197 and it was easy to program wrong with the WIN500 software. The first column in the software was "ID", this WAS NOT the TGID!! This was the memory position ID. The "Group or Radio ID" was the TGID, but this lead me to believe that the Radio ID was the Unit ID based on the fact is was listed as "Group or Radio ID". So the first attempt at programming, radio did not trunk or receive anything. Took a while to figure out that the "Radio ID" = TGID!! Once this was resolved, then you had to also have the TGID associated with the Trunked System AND the proper ID List configured and enabled

So all of these radios and software are enough to drive you crazy as there is nothing uniform, clear or with a brief description.

90% of all problems with receiving things seem to be configuration issues, the other 9% has to do with the antenna/reception or multipath, the last 1% or less is actually a hardware problem.

Good luck, do not give up, you are very close to getting things working.
Video should be public now
 

JamesO

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I looked at the video, but was not able to tell anything other than only 1 channel was being scanned. Was not able to tell anything with the monitor shot.

90% configuration error and/or lack of proper trunking due to lack of signal or an issue with Service Tags/Distance.

Did you make the favorites list from scratch? Did you import the info from the Master Database or did you manually enter the system and TGID?

Set distance to maximum, turn all Service Types on and see what happens.

Without more info, hard to provide concrete answers.

As I mentioned, there are FAR more ways to make these scanners NOT receive and only ONE way for them to be configured correctly.
 

kaiserfan

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I looked at the video, but was not able to tell anything other than only 1 channel was being scanned. Was not able to tell anything with the monitor shot.

90% configuration error and/or lack of proper trunking due to lack of signal or an issue with Service Tags/Distance.

Did you make the favorites list from scratch? Did you import the info from the Master Database or did you manually enter the system and TGID?

Set distance to maximum, turn all Service Types on and see what happens.

Without more info, hard to provide concrete answers.

As I mentioned, there are FAR more ways to make these scanners NOT receive and only ONE way for them to be configured correctly.
Made list from Master data Base and all service groups are active and range is at max why when you go to review channels on list it shows about 40 i never actually counted them but ther are four or five and half pages and when you go to use them it says one channel
 
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JamesO

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Need more info.

Put EVERYTHING out there, even include the file as an attachment.
Where are you located?
What system are you trying to monitor?
Do you have signal bars?

You either have a programming issue or the scanner is not receiving the control channel for a trunked system.

Given that when the Favorite List is loaded and it only shows 1 channel, maybe you somehow have the same TGID for all entries?? I am just guessing, but something is not configured correctly.

Make sure Location Control is turned Off
Make sure you do not have most of the TGID locked out
Put range at Max
Set Squelch to 2
Check the Service Types and make sure they are fully Orange, the Service Types that can be enabled
You may have a basic system configuration problem if these are from a Trunked system

But usually the Service Type is the main problem. I hope you realize there are like 36 different Service Types?

Main Menu, press Select Service Type (left column, 2nd down under Set Your Location), Service Types will be all in Orange if they are enabled. There are 5 pages of Service Types, you will ONLY be able to enable the Service Types that are in your Favorite List, the text will be in WHITE if they can be enabled, if the text is GRAY, you cannot enable the Service Type.

THEN YOU MUST press Accept at the bottom of the screen, NOT listen. If you press Listen, the selected Service Types will not be activated.

Hope this works for you?
 

dmg1969

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Once again the HP1 dose something that makes no sense I Have a favorites list with numeros channels in it and ALL THE RIGHT SERVICE TYPE ARE ACTIVE and NOTHING IS AVOIDED but when i go to use it it shows one dam channel here's a link to a video i made to show what is doing YouTube
so the experts here can't tell me it dosen't happen why dose it do this
kaiserfan, I would like to try to help you. I have an HP-1 that I have had for a few months now and I went through quite a learning curve. This was my first digital scanner, so I had to get used to Sites and Talk Groups.

I went in to look at what you PROBABLY would have loaded. What is that one channel that loads? Is it Countywide Fire Dispatch on 154.145? I noticed that it is the only conventional channel listed for Genesee County.

Try this. Go into Sentinel and Click Edit>Edit Favorites List
Click New Favorites List
Call it Genesee County Test

Now...In the left hand Sentinel pane, go to the very top. Expand:
USA
Michigan
Genesee
Statewide
Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS)

Right click on Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS) and click Append Favorites List. Click on the Genesee County Test favorites list you created earlier and click OK.

Now, in the left hand pane of Sentinel, scroll the whole way down until you see your Favorites Lists. Expand Genesee County Test and single click on Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS) to highlight it.

Now, in the right hand pane, you will see EVERYTHING in Michigan's system. Delete everything except:
Genesee County (25) Common/Interop
Genesee County (25) County Government
Genesee County (25) Emergency Medical
Genesee County (25) Fenton City
Genesee County (25) Fire
Genesee County (25) Flint City Fire
Genesee County (25) Flint City Police
Genesee County (25) Flint Mass Transportation Authority
Genesee County (25) Law Enforcement
Genesee County (25) Parks and Recreation

AND (you need to scroll down past Wayne and Wexford counties for this)

Genesee County Simulcast (this is the site that contains all of the frequencies).

Now, click the Save Profile button and then write it to your HomePatrol and test it out. Just lock it on that one Favorites List (Genesee County Test) and see what happens.

Make sure that you have all of the right service types enabled.

Do all of that and report back.
 

kaiserfan

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Messages
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Saginaw MI
kaiserfan, I would like to try to help you. I have an HP-1 that I have had for a few months now and I went through quite a learning curve. This was my first digital scanner, so I had to get used to Sites and Talk Groups.

I went in to look at what you PROBABLY would have loaded. What is that one channel that loads? Is it Countywide Fire Dispatch on 154.145? I noticed that it is the only conventional channel listed for Genesee County.

Try this. Go into Sentinel and Click Edit>Edit Favorites List
Click New Favorites List
Call it Genesee County Test

Now...In the left hand Sentinel pane, go to the very top. Expand:
USA
Michigan
Genesee
Statewide
Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS)

Right click on Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS) and click Append Favorites List. Click on the Genesee County Test favorites list you created earlier and click OK.

Now, in the left hand pane of Sentinel, scroll the whole way down until you see your Favorites Lists. Expand Genesee County Test and single click on Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS) to highlight it.

Now, in the right hand pane, you will see EVERYTHING in Michigan's system. Delete everything except:
Genesee County (25) Common/Interop
Genesee County (25) County Government
Genesee County (25) Emergency Medical
Genesee County (25) Fenton City
Genesee County (25) Fire
Genesee County (25) Flint City Fire
Genesee County (25) Flint City Police
Genesee County (25) Flint Mass Transportation Authority
Genesee County (25) Law Enforcement
Genesee County (25) Parks and Recreation

AND (you need to scroll down past Wayne and Wexford counties for this)

Genesee County Simulcast (this is the site that contains all of the frequencies).

Now, click the Save Profile button and then write it to your HomePatrol and test it out. Just lock it on that one Favorites List (Genesee County Test) and see what happens.

Make sure that you have all of the right service types enabled.

Do all of that and report back.
For dmg1969 thanks for the effort i have tried this method before but decided to give it one more try even thow it's a pain in the *** way to do it which explainbs the level of frustration but to find an answer i tried it again and heres a video of result YouTube no tags were changed and for THOSE WHO DON"T PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY READ ALL CORRECT SERVICE TYPES ARE ACTIVE ABD NOTHING IS AVOIDED but the same sucking result
 

JamesO

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For dmg1969 thanks for the effort i have tried this method before but decided to give it one more try even thow it's a pain in the *** way to do it which explainbs the level of frustration but to find an answer i tried it again and heres a video of result YouTube no tags were changed and for THOSE WHO DON"T PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY READ ALL CORRECT SERVICE TYPES ARE ACTIVE ABD NOTHING IS AVOIDED but the same sucking result
Dude, lighten it up a bit. Need to get a bit friendlier if you want help.

The MOST common problem people have with these scanners it turning on the correct settings!

This being said, if you read what I wrote, you would see you NEED to provide the following info if you want help!!

"Need more info.

Put EVERYTHING out there, even include the file as an attachment.
Where are you located?
What system are you trying to monitor?
Do you have signal bars?"


If you REALLY want a resolution, you will export the Favorite List, post it on DropBox with a link or attach it directly and someone can open up the list in Sentinel and likely see what the problem is, correct it for you and load it in their HP1 and make sure it works, then send the file back to you.

I really hate to say this, but this is not a hardware issue with the scanner, it is pilot error.

Just calling it what is it.

I FULLY understand your frustration, the first time I tried to set up a Favorite List for my 536HP I had issues, but I had some experience with my HP1 and the HP1 Sentinel and I still ran into issue.

The Sentinel software is NOT intuitive. Likely you are missing a basic configuration and setting and/or not editing or saving the changes like you think you are.

Trust me, I am no fan of Sentinel, but I have had to adapt to it. A real PITA to do simple things that you think you should be able to do, but nobody asked me for idea or my opinion before they wrote the software!

So until you want to work with providing the details, not sure you will find many members like dmg1969 that went to ALL the trouble to give you the answers.

Would be SO much easier of you exported the Favorite List file as there are plenty of people here that could figure out and likely correct the file very quickly.

Good luck.
 

kaiserfan

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Oct 20, 2012
Messages
148
Location
Saginaw MI
Dude, lighten it up a bit. Need to get a bit friendlier if you want help.

The MOST common problem people have with these scanners it turning on the correct settings!

This being said, if you read what I wrote, you would see you NEED to provide the following info if you want help!!

"Need more info.

Put EVERYTHING out there, even include the file as an attachment.
Where are you located?
What system are you trying to monitor?
Do you have signal bars?"


If you REALLY want a resolution, you will export the Favorite List, post it on DropBox with a link or attach it directly and someone can open up the list in Sentinel and likely see what the problem is, correct it for you and load it in their HP1 and make sure it works, then send the file back to you.

I really hate to say this, but this is not a hardware issue with the scanner, it is pilot error.

Just calling it what is it.

I FULLY understand your frustration, the first time I tried to set up a Favorite List for my 536HP I had issues, but I had some experience with my HP1 and the HP1 Sentinel and I still ran into issue.

The Sentinel software is NOT intuitive. Likely you are missing a basic configuration and setting and/or not editing or saving the changes like you think you are.

Trust me, I am no fan of Sentinel, but I have had to adapt to it. A real PITA to do simple things that you think you should be able to do, but nobody asked me for idea or my opinion before they wrote the software!

So until you want to work with providing the details, not sure you will find many members like dmg1969 that went to ALL the trouble to give you the answers.

Would be SO much easier of you exported the Favorite List file as there are plenty of people here that could figure out and likely correct the file very quickly.

Good luck.
If you follow what dmg1969 said to do thats exactly what i did any setting came from the Sentinel data base i don't know what else to tell you if i create the list from the scanner it includes all the MPSCS channels in Michigan and usually whats in scanner once created dosen't match what Sentinel says write know if i want to create a favorites list i have to monitor full data base and when a channel i want i save it to a favorites list that works and then monitor that list and save it to new list from there
 

dmg1969

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Newport, PA
kaiserfan...a few follow-up questions. If you addressed them in one of your other posts, forgive me.

1. What is that one channel that does load like in your video?

2. What are your range and squelch set at?

3. Have you tried turning on ALL service types to see what happens?

4. Not to second guess you, but are you positive that you included the last item...the site?

5. Do I understand from your last post that it works if you are scanning the entire database?

I agree with you exporting your favorite list and sneding it to someone to look at for you. It's probably the only way to fix it for sure if nothing else has helped.

P.S. your second video is marked private.
 

kaiserfan

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Oct 20, 2012
Messages
148
Location
Saginaw MI
kaiserfan...a few follow-up questions. If you addressed them in one of your other posts, forgive me.

1. What is that one channel that does load like in your video?

2. What are your range and squelch set at?

3. Have you tried turning on ALL service types to see what happens?

4. Not to second guess you, but are you positive that you included the last item...the site?

5. Do I understand from your last post that it works if you are scanning the entire database?

I agree with you exporting your favorite list and sneding it to someone to look at for you. It's probably the only way to fix it for sure if nothing else has helped.

P.S. your second video is marked private.
Dave the 2nd video is public now and i made this list exactly like you suggested i have tried several ways and all service types are active
 

dmg1969

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Newport, PA
kaiserfan, if you want, I can try to take a look at it to see if I can figure it out.

Hook the HP-1 up to your computer and (in Sentinel) do a read from HomePatrol. Once you have done that, Do a File>Export to hpe file. Choose your Genesee favorites list and Export it to your desktop. Then e-mail it to me and I will see if I can figure anything out. Check your PM for my e-mail address.

Dave
 

kaiserfan

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Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
148
Location
Saginaw MI
kaiserfan, if you want, I can try to take a look at it to see if I can figure it out.

Hook the HP-1 up to your computer and (in Sentinel) do a read from HomePatrol. Once you have done that, Do a File>Export to hpe file. Choose your Genesee favorites list and Export it to your desktop. Then e-mail it to me and I will see if I can figure anything out. Check your PM for my e-mail address.

Dave
It's been sent see what you find
 

dmg1969

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Joined
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Messages
1,094
Location
Newport, PA
OK. I want to keep the troubleshooting public since it may help someone else.

I received the file and loaded it into Sentinel. After looking at the settings, I see nothing that is abnormal. So, I started looking at location. I looked at the coverage of the Genesee County Simulcast. It is located in Genesee County and has a range of 20 miles.

If the location you list in your profile is accurate, you are in Saginaw, correct? Looking at the coverage map of the Genesee County Simulcast (see below), Saginaw falls outside of that coverage area.

Genesee County Simulcast Site Details (Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS))

What I have done is change your Genesee County Favorite List to include the Saginaw County Simulcast site as opposed to the Genesee County Simulcast site. I am sending it via e-mail. I called it Genesee County ( file is named Genesee County.hpe). Save it to your desktop.

On your computer, open Sentinel. Connect the HP-1 to your computer. Don't bother doing a read from HomePatrol.

Now, in the left hand pane of Sentinel scroll down to your Favorites Lists. RIGHT click on your original Genesee County favorites list and click Remove from Favorites List.

Also delete that Genesee County Test favorites list I had you create.

Now, do a File>Import from hpe file. When the window pops up, click New Favorites List and call it Genesee County. Click OK. In the next window, browse to your desktop and click on the "Genesee County.hpe" file you saved from my e-mail. Click Open (or OK...whatever the prompt is). It should then say that it "Finished importing from hpe file". Click OK. Make sure to click the Save Profile icon right away. Then, do a WRITE to HomePatrol and make sure to check the box to erase your current Favorites Lists on the HomePatrol.

Now test it out.

The fact that it did not work in the Favorites List you created but works when you scan the full database tells me that you were not within range of the Genesee County site.

Let me know if it works.
 

JamesO

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Messages
1,813
Location
McLean, VA
OK. I want to keep the troubleshooting public since it may help someone else.

I received the file and loaded it into Sentinel. After looking at the settings, I see nothing that is abnormal. So, I started looking at location. I looked at the coverage of the Genesee County Simulcast. It is located in Genesee County and has a range of 20 miles.

If the location you list in your profile is accurate, you are in Saginaw, correct? Looking at the coverage map of the Genesee County Simulcast (see below), Saginaw falls outside of that coverage area.

Genesee County Simulcast Site Details (Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS))

What I have done is change your Genesee County Favorite List to include the Saginaw County Simulcast site as opposed to the Genesee County Simulcast site. I am sending it via e-mail. I called it Genesee County ( file is named Genesee County.hpe). Save it to your desktop.

On your computer, open Sentinel. Connect the HP-1 to your computer. Don't bother doing a read from HomePatrol.

Now, in the left hand pane of Sentinel scroll down to your Favorites Lists. RIGHT click on your original Genesee County favorites list and click Remove from Favorites List.

Also delete that Genesee County Test favorites list I had you create.

Now, do a File>Import from hpe file. When the window pops up, click New Favorites List and call it Genesee County. Click OK. In the next window, browse to your desktop and click on the "Genesee County.hpe" file you saved from my e-mail. Click Open (or OK...whatever the prompt is). It should then say that it "Finished importing from hpe file". Click OK. Make sure to click the Save Profile icon right away. Then, do a WRITE to HomePatrol and make sure to check the box to erase your current Favorites Lists on the HomePatrol.

Now test it out.

The fact that it did not work in the Favorites List you created but works when you scan the full database tells me that you were not within range of the Genesee County site.

Let me know if it works.
Dave,

Thanks for the update, as you mentioned, this may help others out.

I have a HP1 and a 536HP, but have not spend a lot of time playing with either as I have a number of x96 units that is spend most of the time with.

So some questions/thoughts?

1. If you have location control disabled on the scanner/software, shouldn't the scanner ignore the location aspect?
2. If location was an issue, could the OP just change the Zip Code to somewhere central where he wants to listen to see what happens?
3. What was strange, only looked at the first video, seems that just a single channel was loaded into the scanner, were you able to reproduce this on your HP1 or did you not try to load the FL?
4. I also know that EVEN if the system loads to be scanned, if you cannot acquire the control channel, you will not pick up any activity, however, I would expect the FL to load more than the single channel.
5. Do you think there could be a firmware issue in play here? Do know know if the OP has the most up to date firmware, but it would be worth asking to rule this out as an issue.

Still thinking it is programming 101/setting issue.

Again, the problem with the HP series of scanners, FAR more ways to eliminate picking things up that actually receiving properly. Have run into similar issues with the GRE scanners as well. With the exception of the full Master Database, these scanners are FAR from idiot proof and the Sentinel software does not make things any easier.
 

phask

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Not seeing the HPE so my take MAY be wrong. But if I understand it's a clear case of user error where the OP created a FL with ONE and ONLY one site, and it was the wrong site.

1. If you have location control disabled on the scanner/software, shouldn't the scanner ignore the location aspect? yes it would have


2. If location was an issue, could the OP just change the Zip Code to somewhere central where he wants to listen to see what happens?
No , only one out of range site


3. What was strange, only looked at the first video, seems that just a single channel was loaded into the scanner, were you able to reproduce this on your HP1 or did you not try to load the FL?
no comment

4. I also know that EVEN if the system loads to be scanned, if you cannot acquire the control channel, you will not pick up any activity, however, I would expect the FL to load more than the single channel.
Why?? It loads / scans all for the site - but only needs the active CC

5. Do you think there could be a firmware issue in play here? Do know know if the OP has the most up to date firmware, but it would be worth asking to rule this out as an issue.
No comment


Still thinking it is programming 101/setting issue.

1000%
 

dmg1969

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Messages
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Location
Newport, PA
Dave,

Thanks for the update, as you mentioned, this may help others out.

I have a HP1 and a 536HP, but have not spend a lot of time playing with either as I have a number of x96 units that is spend most of the time with.

So some questions/thoughts?

1. If you have location control disabled on the scanner/software, shouldn't the scanner ignore the location aspect?
2. If location was an issue, could the OP just change the Zip Code to somewhere central where he wants to listen to see what happens?
3. What was strange, only looked at the first video, seems that just a single channel was loaded into the scanner, were you able to reproduce this on your HP1 or did you not try to load the FL?
4. I also know that EVEN if the system loads to be scanned, if you cannot acquire the control channel, you will not pick up any activity, however, I would expect the FL to load more than the single channel.
5. Do you think there could be a firmware issue in play here? Do know know if the OP has the most up to date firmware, but it would be worth asking to rule this out as an issue.

Still thinking it is programming 101/setting issue.

Again, the problem with the HP series of scanners, FAR more ways to eliminate picking things up that actually receiving properly. Have run into similar issues with the GRE scanners as well. With the exception of the full Master Database, these scanners are FAR from idiot proof and the Sentinel software does not make things any easier.
JamesO,

I am FAR from an expert and having only been using my HP-1 for 2 months. I am going based strictly with the fact that I loaded the FULL MPSCS database in Sentinel here at work and imported his favorites list for Genesee County and compared them. I did not see any difference in the settings. That leads me to believe that it is simply an issue in which the site he is using is not in range of where the scanner can receive it. And no...I did not load them onto my HP-1. I just did everything in Sentinel.

As far as the one channel that did load...I did ask him one or more times what that channel was and he did not answer me. I imagine it is the lone analog channel for the county's fire dispatch. Not sure though.

Add: I just reviewed his second video and the message he receives (All channels that are in range have been avoided...) is EXACTLY the message I got when I first got my HP-1. I loaded all of the talk groups for the system I wanted to monitor, but not the sites. It drove me BSC until I figured out my mistake. Even though he has a site loaded, he is not within range of it...so the scanner might as well have no site loaded. My solution HAS to be correct.
 
Last edited:

kaiserfan

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
148
Location
Saginaw MI
OK. I want to keep the troubleshooting public since it may help someone else.

I received the file and loaded it into Sentinel. After looking at the settings, I see nothing that is abnormal. So, I started looking at location. I looked at the coverage of the Genesee County Simulcast. It is located in Genesee County and has a range of 20 miles.

If the location you list in your profile is accurate, you are in Saginaw, correct? Looking at the coverage map of the Genesee County Simulcast (see below), Saginaw falls outside of that coverage area.

Genesee County Simulcast Site Details (Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS))

What I have done is change your Genesee County Favorite List to include the Saginaw County Simulcast site as opposed to the Genesee County Simulcast site. I am sending it via e-mail. I called it Genesee County ( file is named Genesee County.hpe). Save it to your desktop.

On your computer, open Sentinel. Connect the HP-1 to your computer. Don't bother doing a read from HomePatrol.

Now, in the left hand pane of Sentinel scroll down to your Favorites Lists. RIGHT click on your original Genesee County favorites list and click Remove from Favorites List.

Also delete that Genesee County Test favorites list I had you create.

Now, do a File>Import from hpe file. When the window pops up, click New Favorites List and call it Genesee County. Click OK. In the next window, browse to your desktop and click on the "Genesee County.hpe" file you saved from my e-mail. Click Open (or OK...whatever the prompt is). It should then say that it "Finished importing from hpe file". Click OK. Make sure to click the Save Profile icon right away. Then, do a WRITE to HomePatrol and make sure to check the box to erase your current Favorites Lists on the HomePatrol.

Now test it out.

The fact that it did not work in the Favorites List you created but works when you scan the full database tells me that you were not within range of the Genesee County site.

Let me know if it works.
Dave that seems to have fixed that problem appreciate the help
 
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