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Programming conventional (non-trunked) channels in G5

Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
405
Location
Velarde, New Mexico
#1
I've been able to program three trunked radio systems in my new Unication G5 with relative ease.

I'm currently trying to program four conventional (non-trunked) channels (three are P25, and one is DMR), and I've run into problems I can't seem to untangle by myself.

I've entered the four frequencies in the "Conventional Frequency List" on tab 2 (Frequency and System Setting). When I move to the "Protocol Parameter Setting" tab and select "No Setting" under "Protocol Type", I receive a prompt telling me this protocol setting has been used in a previously programmed trunked system and advising me "If you want to delete, please cancel the bindings or remove the channel." I don't understand what that means.

If I select "P25 Conventional" under "Protocol Type", I get sent to tab four (Group ID setting), which contains all the TGID's I've entered for the three trunked radio systems mentioned above, minus the TGID numbers. Is this where I should enter a "Group Alias" for each of the four conventional channels I'm trying to enter? If so, does the "P25 Conventional" setting eliminate my ability to monitor the DMR channel?

I hope this is an understandable description of where I am right now.

Any advice will be appreciated!

Thanks!
 

N6ML

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475
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SF Bay / Delta, CA
#2
Do not try to use "No Setting" for Protocol Type. Instead, define a Protocol Type for P25 Conventional, and another one for each DMR slot. Click "New", then click on "No Setting" for the new entry, and select the appropriate protocol (and DMR slot), and give it a meaningful alias. Here's mine:

protocol-type.PNG

To get started, I'd recommend using wildcard talkgroups - on tab D4, create two new entries. For one of them, set the alias to something like "P25C All" and P25C TGID to FFFF (HEX), and the other "DMR All" and DMR TGID FFFCDF (HEX). I you need to filter for specific talkgroups, you can do that later.

Then create knob positions on D5, using the protocol types and talkgroups created above.
 

Webodisk

Mike
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
732
Location
Virginia Beach,VA
#3
Select new name it Set it to P25 conventional and name it P25 conv... add another protocol and select DMR and set it to slot 1
Repeat for slot 2, then go to tab and add talk groups for the frequencies


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
405
Location
Velarde, New Mexico
#4
Thanks, N6ML!

I think I'll eliminate the DMR channel, for the sake of simplicity, and try first to program the P25 conventional frequencies.

It sounds as though I'll be unable to create a "zone" with multiple conventional frequencies in one knob position. Is that correct?
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
405
Location
Velarde, New Mexico
#5
I seem to be making a little progress, N6ML, but when I try to save to save the new wildcard setting in tab 4 (Group ID setting), I receive a prompt telling me "All protocol is \"no setting\", Please check again"

Indeed, I've left "no setting" in the "P25C TGID" column for all the trunked talkgroups I previously programmed, so I seem to be stuck on this tab for the time being. Do I need to go back and change that setting for all the talkgroups I've already programmed in trunked systems?
 

N6ML

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#6
I seem to be making a little progress, N6ML, but when I try to save to save the new wildcard setting in tab 4 (Group ID setting), I receive a prompt telling me "All protocol is \"no setting\", Please check again"
Do you have an item on D3 where the "Protocol Type" is "No Setting". If so, select it, and either Delete it, or change the Protocol Type to the one that you want to use.
 

N6ML

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Messages
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#7
It sounds as though I'll be unable to create a "zone" with multiple conventional frequencies in one knob position. Is that correct?
One system per knob position - but you can then define another knob position to scan across the other knob positions that you have programmed with conventional systems.
 

IAmSixNine

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Dallas, TX
#8
These things are tricky with conventional channels.
One thing you need to do is make sure each conventional channel has its own knob setting. So if you want 3 channels, it will eat up 3 knob settings. Then on a different knob, you can now add the 3 conventional channels in a scan list.
Under Tab 4 Group ID Settings. You indeed need to have at least 1 for P25C TGID. I have one set with TGID 1.
Most P25 conventional channels (especially around me) always use TGID 1.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
405
Location
Velarde, New Mexico
#9
Do you have an item on D3 where the "Protocol Type" is "No Setting". If so, select it, and either Delete it, or change the Protocol Type to the one that you want to use.
No. I don't have anything on D3 that says "No Setting". As you advised, I've added "P25 Conventional" and "P25 Trunking" lines under the "Protocol Type" heading.

However, I do have 121 talkgroup ID's in my D4 "Group ID Setting" list that I programmed previously for the trunked systems I've already created. In the "P25C TGID" column on that page, I'd left all those in "No Setting" mode because I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that was sufficient because I'm using my G5 only as a scanner at this time, and I'm primarily interested in monitoring one trunked system as an emergency responder.

Should I delete all those P25T TGID's in order to enter a conventional P25 channel? If I do that, will it erase all the talkgroups I've already programmed for those three trunked systems?

Thanks in advance, N6ML!
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
405
Location
Velarde, New Mexico
#10
Update: By entering a P25C TGID of "1" in D4 for my first conventional channel (as I think "IAmSixNine" suggested above), I seem to have made it past the D3 and D4 settings.

However, on D5 (Zone and Channel Setting), I don't know what to enter for "Receiving Mode". When I select "None" for Receiving Mode, nothing comes up like the D4 "Group ID Setting" list that I can use to select a channel for Knob Position 1. The "Monitor Mode" setting from the pull-down menu seems to make sense, but I don't want to try that without some advice from more-experienced G5 users out there.

My apologies for taking up so much time and space in this forum for what's probably a very elementary procedure for most of you.

Thanks.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
405
Location
Velarde, New Mexico
#11
These things are tricky with conventional channels.
One thing you need to do is make sure each conventional channel has its own knob setting. So if you want 3 channels, it will eat up 3 knob settings. Then on a different knob, you can now add the 3 conventional channels in a scan list.
Under Tab 4 Group ID Settings. You indeed need to have at least 1 for P25C TGID. I have one set with TGID 1.
Most P25 conventional channels (especially around me) always use TGID 1.
In the "Parameter Description" for P25C TGID, it mentions "FFFF" (wildcard?) as a maximum range setting. Would that work better than "1" for conventional talkgroup ID?
 

IAmSixNine

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#12
Do you have a scanner that can pick up P25 conventional?
The key here is you want to use the Gx to pick up P25 conventional. There has to be a TGID associated with hit. Default is 1 but its possible they have chosen something else. Use the scanner to get the correct TG, OR you can use the wildcard FFFF.

Dont delete your TGID in Tab 4 Group ID Settings. You still need them for your trunking systems.
What you need to do it create a new TG for your P25C TGID to use. So click New, add your personal label, set Alert Mode to None, then add 1 or FFFF to P25C TGID

When you get to tab 5 Zone and Channel Setting, Select the zone and knob you want. Under Receive Mode I use Monitor Mode.
Then you select the frequency from the drop down menu, then the P25 Conventional from Protocol Type.
You also need the NAC code.. Hope you have that.

Remember to the right of the program are the Parameter Descriptions which tell you what each one is when its clicked.
Using that and trial and error i figured out many things.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
309
Location
Rowan County, NC
#15
How are fire departments that dispatch over a conventional P25 frequency alerting? Do members of those departments have to carry either an APX model radio or an 800 pager? I don't believe a Minitor model pager can be programmed with a P25 conventional frequency, can they?
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
405
Location
Velarde, New Mexico
#16
A great big THANKS! to everyone (especially to N6ML and IAmSixNine) for their kindness, patience, and technical savvy!

I seem to have successfully programmed two P25 conventional channels, and I'm looking forward to testing them later today to see if I got all the necessary information entered correctly. I have the decimal versions of their NAC's, and I used an online converter (for the first time ever) to identify their HEX counterparts (156 = 9C and 747 = 2EB).

Before I could program the G5, I received an error message indicating that I'd deleted a parameter setting for the three trunked systems I'd programmed previously (momentary heart failure!), but it seems I was able to fix that somehow by going back to that tab and highlighting the P25 Trunking field. I think this may have happened when I was setting parameters for P25 Conventional. In any event, my semi-knowledgeable fix seems to have worked because I'm again monitoring my primary trunked system as I write this. (I hate not knowing exactly how I may have done something correctly . . .)

Someday soon, when I get my courage back, I'll try rigging the G5 up with some of the alert/pager settings.

Thanks again!

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
29
#17
A great big THANKS! to everyone (especially to N6ML and IAmSixNine) for their kindness, patience, and technical savvy!

I seem to have successfully programmed two P25 conventional channels, and I'm looking forward to testing them later today to see if I got all the necessary information entered correctly. I have the decimal versions of their NAC's, and I used an online converter (for the first time ever) to identify their HEX counterparts (156 = 9C and 747 = 2EB).

Before I could program the G5, I received an error message indicating that I'd deleted a parameter setting for the three trunked systems I'd programmed previously (momentary heart failure!), but it seems I was able to fix that somehow by going back to that tab and highlighting the P25 Trunking field. I think this may have happened when I was setting parameters for P25 Conventional. In any event, my semi-knowledgeable fix seems to have worked because I'm again monitoring my primary trunked system as I write this. (I hate not knowing exactly how I may have done something correctly . . .)

Someday soon, when I get my courage back, I'll try rigging the G5 up with some of the alert/pager settings.

Thanks again!

-Johnnie (KC5IGH)
if you programed it conventional you dont need that other info if it is p25 phase1 if it is phase 2 you must have the info, phase2 cant be run as conventional.
...
 

IAmSixNine

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Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,439
Location
Dallas, TX
#19
Glad to see you got it working.
What i do when i am playing with features.
I read the device first, since i know its working properly. Save the file or as i call it codeplug.
Then make modifications. Write to pager and test. If all is good save the codeplug. If you find issues. Load the previous saved working codeplug and start over.
I do this with my scanners and pagers and radios.
Same when i update firmware. I probably have 5 different versions of codeplugs for my XPR7550 and 10 for my APX7000.
I even have about 4 or 5 for my KNG2-P800 BK unit. They take up so little space on a hard drive so why not keep old versions around. Never know when you make a mistake and need to revert back to a last known good working version.
 
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