Programming help needed - Phantom Police Dept? (Greenville area)

ecps92

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If Greenville is dispatched by the sheriff, units probably stay on that frequency unless they want to do car to car communications. Station class FX1 transmits on a repeater input frequency from a fixed location such as a fire or police station. You only need the repeater output frequency. The attenuator should be used only if a transmitter is very close and overloading the receiver. It will greatly reduce your receive range when turned on. I don't know what P25 ID numbers starting at 620 mean. Creeperjeep please be a little more specific. As stated earlier, Manchester and Nashua are the only cities using a trunked system and have control channel frequencies. Police are fully encrypted and cannot be received by any scanner. I am very familiar with the BCD996P2. Please attach your FreeSCAN programming file so that we can take a look at it. You will need to zip the file to be able to attach it. Click on Attach files and open the zipped file.
He likely means the RID vs the over-the-air verbal calls which would be 500-599

As to ENC, my experience has been they NH SO's are in the CLR
 

mayor954

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Here it is - I didn't undo the ATT enable. Thanks for reviewing. Please confirm you can open it OK.
thanks, Mark
 

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tvengr

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You want to remove the attenuator from the sheriff on 155.52. Otherwise, it looks OK with the 117 NAC. 155.49 is licensed to both Greenville and Mason. The Mason license show both NFM and NXDN. Setup that frequency twice, one set to analog with a 146.2 tone and the other set to digital with no tones. Do not enable the attenuator. NXDN uses a radio access number (RAN) like P25 uses NAC. FreeSCAN does not support DMR or NXDN. Do you have the NXDN upgrade for your scanner? If not, you will not be able to hear if they are using NXDN.
 

mayor954

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You want to remove the attenuator from the sheriff on 155.52. Otherwise, it looks OK with the 117 NAC. 155.49 is licensed to both Greenville and Mason. The Mason license show both NFM and NXDN. Setup that frequency twice, one set to analog with a 146.2 tone and the other set to digital with no tones. Do not enable the attenuator. NXDN uses a radio access number (RAN) like P25 uses NAC. FreeSCAN does not support DMR or NXDN. Do you have the NXDN upgrade for your scanner? If not, you will not be able to hear if they are using NXDN.
Thanks. I'll make those adjustments. My scanner is stock so I assume I don't have NXDN. Will report back after monitoring for a bit.
 

mayor954

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FCC DB won't contain NAC information, nor PL/DPL etc

What Freq did you hear the N617 on ? Likely an adjacent frequency, as there are multiple entities in NH who use N617
Bill, more monitoring this afternoon saw several hits using NAC 617 on 154.65000. I could NOT figure who was talking to who though.
 

sflmonitor

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So I've spent the last few days doing a variety of P25 programming and then monitoring to see what I pick up.

I've had to learn a couple of OBVIOUS things. (1) - when you want to monitor/program a frequency, you have to DOUBLE CHECK your entry. You can't monitor 154.xxxx if you input 155.xxx. Lost a day there.....

(2) - I've also realized (the obvious) that just because GV PD has licenses for several frequencies, it doesn't mean that they have to use them !!!!!

sflmonitor had planted the seed that GV PD may have been using a frequency under Hillsboro County Sherriff's Office (HCSO) and I believe that in fact is the case. Problem is that I still can't find their transmissions. HCSO FRN is 0005952650, they have 152 entries on the FCC database site but I'm not a radio guy so things aren't necessarily obvious to me that would be obvious to a radio guy. I have tried to focus on 154.65000 as there is a listing for an FX1 site in both Greenville and Mason along with a few other towns that also use HCSO for dispatch.

I think I'm at the point where I need to learn more about the intricacies of P25 monitoring/programming. When I monitor HCSO under their P25 "main channel" 155.52000 I do hear regular Sheriff conversations. They all show a 117 NAC. However, transmissions are somewhat garbled. Sometimes I'm only picking up one side of the conversation, other times both the start and the stop of the conversation seem to be truncated. Is there a setting that I should also be adjusting beyond setting at auto? I have clicked on ATT for the channels I'm monitoring. I'm making changes using FREESCAN.

I did catch what I believe was a local GV PD broadcast yesterday but I couldn't catch the frequency in time. I think it was 154.65000 but I haven't heard anything more since then.

General questions on P25 programming - Do I have to set a NAC to hear P25 transmissions? I had one transmission come thru that showed a 617 NAC. When I searched the FCC frequency DB for that frequency and NAC nothing was found.

creeperjeep had posted for me that GV PD uses P25 ID numbers starting with 620. I set one channel to show ID 620 but I'm not sure how to set for 621 etc..... How do I find out where their ID numbers end? If I don't set an ID will I still hear the transmission? If I set a specific ID on a channel will I only hear transmissions by that ID?

Any insight on what I've mentioned would be helpful. I have read some of the manuals, but being new to radio is a challenge.
Thanks, Mark
While it’s not my intent to add even further confusion to this post, I’ve noticed that the Hillborough Sheriff’s dispatch channel license indicates three possible transmit sites for that frequency. Since it’s listed as P25, I’m wondering if you’re experiencing simulcast distortion, hence the sometimes garbled transmissions? Unfortunately the scanner you are using doesn’t process P25 simulcast transmissions very well. For now only the SDS series of Uniden scanners can process those types of transmissions with any amount of success. However, as you will see in the link, there are some settings you can try in order to mitigate the problem, if that’s indeed what’s happening.
 

cja1987

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While it’s not my intent to add even further confusion to this post, I’ve noticed that the Hillborough Sheriff’s dispatch channel license indicates three possible transmit sites for that frequency. Since it’s listed as P25, I’m wondering if you’re experiencing simulcast distortion, hence the sometimes garbled transmissions? Unfortunately the scanner you are using doesn’t process P25 simulcast transmissions very well. For now only the SDS series of Uniden scanners can process those types of transmissions with any amount of success. However, as you will see in the link, there are some settings you can try in order to mitigate the problem, if that’s indeed what’s happening.

Likely Simulcast distortion is an issue.

I own a house in NH and I’m there all the time transitioning through Hillsborough SO Dispatch territory. I find them to be very hard to monitor both mobile and at home. Home is north of their area but it does come in good strengh but , often distorted! This is with a Motorola XTL 2500, APX 4500 or APX 8000 portable so we are talking professional equipment here and I still experience distortion on that frequency fairly often. Wonder how the actual subscribers in the field do with this …

I’ve never even tried with my SDS 200, have 2 of them, should see how it goes.

Long story short: I find Hillsborough SO tough to monitor!!!
 

mayor954

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cja1987, tvengr, sflmonitor, wtp, ecps92, creeperjeep and ofd8001. Thanks to you all for your help with my mystery.
This morning with my coffee and morning musings I was able to ACTUALLY HEAR MY POLICE DEPARTMENT !!!!! The mobile unit used 154.6500 (input freq to repeater) to contact HCSO dispatch and they replied on their main frequency 155.52000.

I appreciate hearing from a second source that HCSO can be very difficult to monitor.

As much as I don't like to hear that my scanner isn't the best for P25, there was no way I would have purchased an SDS 100 or 200 just for that one frequency. The truth hurts sometimes, oh well. I will explore the simulcast distortion link and see if I cant improve the reception somewhat.

The overall finding I do believe is that (as many in town have said) my police department is NOT an active department. If they are not active out there, there's no reason to use the radio!

Thanks all for your help!
Mark
 

fog

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The mobile unit used 154.6500 (input freq to repeater) to contact HCSO dispatch and they replied on their main frequency 155.52000.
Glad you got it working!

Apologies if you already know this, but you likely only need to monitor 155.52 (unless you're doing this to get around the possible simulcast distortion mentioned above). The repeater will retransmit whatever it hears on its input via 155.52, so you should have heard the mobile unit being retransmitted on 155.52 as well, but your scanner hit the input frequency first. Totally fine to keep both in there, but it may grow annoying as you pick up somewhat distant towns, or people on portable radios, on the input with signals weak at your location.

I don't know what P25 ID numbers starting at 620 mean. Creeperjeep please be a little more specific.
This wasn't me, but a common pattern with NH police departments using conventional P25 is for the radio IDs to be set to a 6-digit number, with the first 3 digits derived from the FBI ORI code. Greenville's ORI is NH0062000, so their unit IDs would be 620xxx. The county itself has 600xxx. They're listed in this delightfully retro 1981 doc at National Law Enforcement Telecommunications Systems - ORI (Originating Agency Identifier) Directory | Office of Justice Programs

(Almost?) no one uses them verbally as IDs, but it can be handy as scanner listeners to determine who we're hearing. (I assume their dispatchers have them aliased so they can see the town name.)
 

tvengr

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154.65 is a repeater input frequency for Hillsborough County Sheriff.
You should only program the repeater output frequencies. You will hear both base and mobile. If you select Show Repeater Inputs on the Hillsborough County database page, you will see both the repeater output frequencies and their associated input frequencies.

Frequencies​

---O- Grouped ---O- All ---O- New/Updated ---O- Show Repeater Inputs
 
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ecps92

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Glad you got it working!

Apologies if you already know this, but you likely only need to monitor 155.52 (unless you're doing this to get around the possible simulcast distortion mentioned above). The repeater will retransmit whatever it hears on its input via 155.52, so you should have heard the mobile unit being retransmitted on 155.52 as well, but your scanner hit the input frequency first. Totally fine to keep both in there, but it may grow annoying as you pick up somewhat distant towns, or people on portable radios, on the input with signals weak at your location.


This wasn't me, but a common pattern with NH police departments using conventional P25 is for the radio IDs to be set to a 6-digit number, with the first 3 digits derived from the FBI ORI code. Greenville's ORI is NH0062000, so their unit IDs would be 620xxx. The county itself has 600xxx. They're listed in this delightfully retro 1981 doc at National Law Enforcement Telecommunications Systems - ORI (Originating Agency Identifier) Directory | Office of Justice Programs

(Almost?) no one uses them verbally as IDs, but it can be handy as scanner listeners to determine who we're hearing. (I assume their dispatchers have them aliased so they can see the town name.)
Nice Find on the Net :) Got two of them sitting on Desk at the Office
BTW for those who use that format it is generally (some exceptions for the LARGE Counties)
first two letters = State
Next 3 = County in Alphabetical ORDER
Next 2 = City/Town in Alphabetical ORDER
 

creeperjeep

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Just to add;
HSCO is 3 sites but not simulcast. 2 have different input NAC and one a different input freq.
They all output on the same freq 155.52 $117 so you can pick the closest repeater to you, and everyone in range will hear you regardless which site they are on.

I did say that Greenville unit ids start with 620. IE 620008 could be car 8, 620525 could be whatever portable.
I'm not great with scanners, so I don't actually know if you can selectively unmute for ID ranges.

I only mentioned the unit IDs because Greenville is dispatched with a couple handfuls of other towns and entities, and you might be able to verify when you heard Greenville.

You'll likely find that whatever licensed channels for Greenville are quiet because they really don't have a ton of guys on the radio.
TBH they rarely even talk on county.


tl;dr
Listen to 155.52 $117 and if Greenville has anything going on, you'll hear it.
 

sflmonitor

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Just to add;
HSCO is 3 sites but not simulcast. 2 have different input NAC and one a different input freq.
They all output on the same freq 155.52 $117 so you can pick the closest repeater to you, and everyone in range will hear you regardless which site they are on.

I did say that Greenville unit ids start with 620. IE 620008 could be car 8, 620525 could be whatever portable.
I'm not great with scanners, so I don't actually know if you can selectively unmute for ID ranges.

I only mentioned the unit IDs because Greenville is dispatched with a couple handfuls of other towns and entities, and you might be able to verify when you heard Greenville.

You'll likely find that whatever licensed channels for Greenville are quiet because they really don't have a ton of guys on the radio.
TBH they rarely even talk on county.


tl;dr
Listen to 155.52 $117 and if Greenville has anything going on, you'll hear it.
Thanks for the clarification. I’m glad the OP was able to figure out the situation. Lots of good info on this string.

Hillsborough’s setup may somewhat explain the garbled transmissions, depending on which repeater site is being used at the time and the receiver’s location. We have a similar setup here in south Florida with the Everglades National Park. They have seven sites, all same repeater pairs but different NACs for each input. Sometimes transmissions can be very weak or even nonexistent, depending on where I am. Not the most efficient method for wide area coverage IMO but simulcast, vote scan and trunking can get expensive.
 

ecps92

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Thanks for the clarification. I’m glad the OP was able to figure out the situation. Lots of good info on this string.

Hillsborough’s setup may somewhat explain the garbled transmissions, depending on which repeater site is being used at the time and the receiver’s location. We have a similar setup here in south Florida with the Everglades National Park. They have seven sites, all same repeater pairs but different NACs for each input. Sometimes transmissions can be very weak or even nonexistent, depending on where I am. Not the most efficient method for wide area coverage IMO but simulcast, vote scan and trunking can get expensive.
Many of the NHSO's used this same method back in the Analog Days and migrated the same configuration over to the digital networks
 
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