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Programming Toronto public safety system

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wyldman

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I am trying to set up the Toronto public safety system.I have all the info,and have set it up as four systems (N,S,E,W) which correspond to the different towers.I hear lots of traffic when searching for ID's,and several of the same TGID's seem to be used on different towers.I have not had a chance to listen long enough to see if all TGID's are sent over all of the towers.Seem to be getting everything,just need to get it cleaned up and organized,and my TGID's entered so I can use the ID scan mode instead.

Here is my problem.My scanner (BC246T) is almost full,and i need to keep my systems as lean as possible so I can fit everything in.So here are my questions.Can I program in the control channels only for this style system ? if yes,can I put jut the all of the different control channels for all 4 towers all together in one system,and then all of the different TGID's into groups in that one system ? or do I need to program each tower separately,with individual TGID's for each tower ? How do i know which TGID's are associated with each tower without days of searching ? How do I know what area of the city use which tower ?I could enter all of the TGID's for the entire city under each individual system (tower),but this is duplicating things like 4 times.

I would like to have it set up just as one system if possible to save space.I have all of Peel Region set up this way,and it works well,but they only use one set of control channels running off of repeaters,not different control channels running off of 4 different towers.

BTW,when I do get this set up,I can share the files if anyone in the Toronto area is interested.I also have good setups for Peel Region (Police and Fire),Pearson Airport,York Region,and some conventional stuff too.
 

EJB

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.Can I program in the control channels only for this style system ?
Yes you can.

if yes,can I put jut the all of the different control channels for all 4 towers all together in one system,and then all of the different TGID's into groups in that one system ? or do I need to program each tower separately,with individual TGID's for each tower ?
You can put all the C/C's for al towers in one system but your radio will 'latch' on to the first tower you enter.

How do i know which TGID's are associated with each tower without days of searching ?

Wouldnt take to long. Try it and see which ones come up per tower.
Toronto Fire dispatches on the south tower, If you had room for only one tower this is it.
You'll also normally hear stuff like 22-23 D11-14, 31 also and West FDP on the West tower as an example.
On North Tower 31-33 D plus north fire calls, NW EMS
I dont get out to Scarberia much and dont bother with the east tower much.

One note: If you are looking to listen to everthing on this system it might be best to separate the FDP, PD and EMS. It is an extremely busy system.
 

wyldman

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Thanks,great info.

So if it latches onto the first tower programmed,then the south tower sounds like the one to program in first.Should I do both primary and secondary control channel for the south tower first,then the other towers,or do all the primarys first,then all the secondary's.

If I can do just the control channels,then I can set those up as one system,and I can have different groups for EMS,fire divisions,police divisions etc.That is the way I have my Peel region set up now,and it is great.Gives me the choice of exactly what I want to listen to.

Thanks again for the info.
 

EJB

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It depends on where you are and if you can recieve the towers.
Say you want to use the south tower the most.
Select Control Channel only.
Enter in both of the control channels first, 8629625 and 8632125. If you choose to put in all the towers in one bank repeat the above steps, both control channels for N, W, E.
Enter in all of the talk groups you want, lets say for the FDP.

Do this again for the EMS services
and then do this again for the PD.

Tip, Use as little text tags as possible, you save space this way.


what software are you using?
 

pathalogical

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Hello wyldman,

Welcome to RR and if this is your first venture into scanning, welcome to the hobby. You have asked many questions that I too have asked or wondered about. It seems that any ID can show up on any SITE. If you HOLD on any ID, you will hear all comms regardless of which site it pops up on.

I also have a 246. Sounds like you just got it recently ? Did you delete all the pre-programed system ? They are all US cities in there and are obvioulsy useless up here. If I remember correctly, the pre-prog stuff took up 75 % of memory. I INITIALIZED the radio, programed all my systems in there and used up 34% memory. I did not use the software, all done by hand. As an experiment, I have done exactly what you have asked about. I originally programmed the four sites as four separate systems using SEARCH mode. So I now reorganized my 246 as the four red control channels as one system, I named it TORONTO POLICE in SQK 2. I then entered Group 1 as divisions, group 2 as tactical and group 3 as temporary use. Now the radio is in SCAN mode and only the programmed ID's will show up which have all been alpha tagged. I then did the exact same thing with the red channels as a another system and called it TORONTO EMS which is in SQK 6, divided into 3 groups and also in SCAN mode. And finally the same thing again as TORONTO FIRE divided into groups. All three Toronto systems have alpha tags. With this set up all systems are as active as ever. Entering all ID's into four sites four times will hog up memory big time especially with alpha tags. I also have York, Peel, Hydro/Public Works in SEARCH mode and many conventional channels. I also have many other systems that I rarely listen to, but have also deleted many systems that I was not getting any hits on. After redoing the Toronto systems this way, I went from 34% down to 23% memory. All three of these are now in C CH only. As I said my 246 is as active as before. Now if I just want to listen to the police I can shut off EMS and Fire. The less systems you listen to the more hits you'll get on it. If you have more systems turned on, the radio has to cylcle through all of them before getting back to a particular one you might be getting good action on, therefore missing some good calls. I still haven't finished tweaking my 246, eventually I'll get to it. Hope this info helps.
 

wyldman

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I am using ARC246.

I have found that decreasing the amount of text entered for a system name,alpha tage,ect do NOT affect the memory used.Doesn't matter if you enter PDS1 or PD Station 1,it uses the same memory amount.I tried this yesterday to gain some space,and gained none.

Where you do use up extra memory,is how many channels you have under each group.If you have 50 channels available,but only enter lets say 10 TGID's and text,it still enters 50 spots in that group into the scanner.Once you program all your TGID's in,then remove any excess channels that are not used (blank).This saves a ton of space.Once I deleted all the unused channels in the group editor,I then gained about 20% of the memory back.


I'm not sure if this is the same for the frequencies,as ARC246 seems to give you room to enter frequencies,but there is no way to decrease it,unlike the channels in the group editor.
 

wyldman

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pathalogical said:
Hello wyldman,

Welcome to RR and if this is your first venture into scanning, welcome to the hobby. You have asked many questions that I too have asked or wondered about. It seems that any ID can show up on any SITE. If you HOLD on any ID, you will hear all comms regardless of which site it pops up on.

I also have a 246. Sounds like you just got it recently ? Did you delete all the pre-programed system ? They are all US cities in there and are obvioulsy useless up here. If I remember correctly, the pre-prog stuff took up 75 % of memory. I INITIALIZED the radio, programed all my systems in there and used up 34% memory. I did not use the software, all done by hand. As an experiment, I have done exactly what you have asked about. I originally programmed the four sites as four separate systems using SEARCH mode. So I now reorganized my 246 as the four red control channels as one system, I named it TORONTO POLICE in SQK 2. I then entered Group 1 as divisions, group 2 as tactical and group 3 as temporary use. Now the radio is in SCAN mode and only the programmed ID's will show up which have all been alpha tagged. I then did the exact same thing with the red channels as a another system and called it TORONTO EMS which is in SQK 6, divided into 3 groups and also in SCAN mode. And finally the same thing again as TORONTO FIRE divided into groups. All three Toronto systems have alpha tags. With this set up all systems are as active as ever. Entering all ID's into four sites four times will hog up memory big time especially with alpha tags. I also have York, Peel, Hydro/Public Works in SEARCH mode and many conventional channels. I also have many other systems that I rarely listen to, but have also deleted many systems that I was not getting any hits on. After redoing the Toronto systems this way, I went from 34% down to 23% memory. All three of these are now in C CH only. As I said my 246 is as active as before. Now if I just want to listen to the police I can shut off EMS and Fire. The less systems you listen to the more hits you'll get on it. If you have more systems turned on, the radio has to cylcle through all of them before getting back to a particular one you might be getting good action on, therefore missing some good calls. I still haven't finished tweaking my 246, eventually I'll get to it. Hope this info helps.
I am not new to scanning,just new to setting up the Toronto system,and trying to squeeze it all in there.The original programming has been wiped out.

I have just finished playing with it for the TO PSS

I have it set up as one system,with the control frequencies only entered.

I have set up separate groups in that system for...

1 - Toronto Fire Talkgroups - these are TFS-1 and TFS-2,and Dispatch 1-16
2 - Fire North Talkgroups - OPS,TAC's,etc
3,4,5 Same as above for South,East,West,etc

It is similar to the way they are organized in the database page for TO PSS

Does anyone know how they dispatch in TO ? Here in Brampton,they dispatch on the OPS channel,then giving them another TAC channel for that call.I noticed they have a bunch of common dispatch channels,and then separate OPS and TAC channels for N,S,E,W.do they dispatch on a common dispatch channel then us the specific N,S,E,W channels for comms ? or do they dispatch on N,S,E,W OPS too ? I am not able to catch much here right now,as the reception is spotty where i am.Would like to get it set up so I can cruise down and listen without programming on the fly.

I will be adding more groups for Police,EMS,etc if I can find more memory.i currently find all of Peel Region and TO PSS take up about 83% of the memory,which leaves me a little for my conventional airport stuff,plus some York region fire.
 

pathalogical

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wyldman said:
I am not new to scanning,just new to setting up the Toronto system,and trying to squeeze it all in there.The original programming has been wiped out.

I have just finished playing with it for the TO PSS

I have it set up as one system,with the control frequencies only entered.

I have set up separate groups in that system for...

1 - Toronto Fire Talkgroups - these are TFS-1 and TFS-2,and Dispatch 1-16
2 - Fire North Talkgroups - OPS,TAC's,etc
3,4,5 Same as above for South,East,West,etc

It is similar to the way they are organized in the database page for TO PSS

Does anyone know how they dispatch in TO ? Here in Brampton,they dispatch on the OPS channel,then giving them another TAC channel for that call.I noticed they have a bunch of common dispatch channels,and then separate OPS and TAC channels for N,S,E,W.do they dispatch on a common dispatch channel then us the specific N,S,E,W channels for comms ? or do they dispatch on N,S,E,W OPS too ? I am not able to catch much here right now,as the reception is spotty where i am.Would like to get it set up so I can cruise down and listen without programming on the fly.

I will be adding more groups for Police,EMS,etc if I can find more memory.i currently find all of Peel Region and TO PSS take up about 83% of the memory,which leaves me a little for my conventional airport stuff,plus some York region fire.
For TO fire, I have noticed dispatches on ops as well. I may be wrong, but I think when a fire vehicle is in the station a dispatch will be on a dispatch channel ID, which ever one is available at the time. When a vehicle is already out of the station, and is then dispatched, it tends to be on their ops channel for their area. I think an indicator of this may be when a dispatcher (on ops) says "Pumper xxx, Aerial xxx on the air, respond..." or also "Stand by for dispatch". Looks like your fire is set up the same as mine.
 

wyldman

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I just got back from a TO cruise (to pick up a new 396 :)) and found most are dispatched on the actual dispatch channels,except like you said,if they are already out,then they use the OPS channel for that area.

Seems to work OK so far the way I have it set up now.Next project is to get an antenna up so i can recieve it clearly up here in Brampton.May try making my own to start.If anyone have any suggestions,please add them.

Thanks again.
 

pathalogical

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Not sure if someone was asking for the locations of the Toronto towers, but I'll post it here. I don't have Streets n Trips, but imagine that it may be a better looking map. If so, can someone jpeg it so i can right click and save it, pleeeease. Someone did the OPP towers and were absolutely wicked. http://www.irisreg.com/tps/index.htm The York map would make a nice print out.
 

slicerwizard

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So I now reorganized my 246 as the four red control channels as one system,
And when they flip to the alternate control channels, you'll hear nothing. You might want to fix that.

Someone did the OPP towers and were absolutely wicked.
These ones?

http://home.ica.net/~phoenix/wap/Fleetnet/

The divisional boundaries on that TPS map are out of date and most of the repeater sites are misiing. Try this one:

http://home.ica.net/~phoenix/wap/TPS/TPS Repeater Sites.JPG
 

wyldman

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So what is the best way to program in the control channels then ? I started out with the 8 control channels (2 from each of the 4 towers),and it seems to work OK.I don't get a lot of East or North traffic though,almost as if it's missing some.It sits on the primary south control channel 99% of the time,so i'm sure that's why it misses stuff.

I am on the fringe to receive these,so maybe that's why I just see some traffic on two towers.I can barely hear the other control channels.I will have to take a trip to Toronto to see how it works.

I have just tried setting them up as 4 separate systems (North,South,East,West) to see if that works better.I will report back later,as I can't really scan them from where I am here.Is this the better way to do it ?
 

slicerwizard

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You have to program them as four separate systems if you want to have any control over which zone(s) you listen to. Personally, I have each of the four zones programmed as a separate system, so when mobile, I can monitor local comms using the local control channel.

If I'm interested in more traffic, I'll monitor different zones/talkgroups with each scanner.
 

dave042583

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programming toronto

I have programmed the toronto system into my 246t aswell and have found the best way to program it was to have the dispatchs in seperate slots for instance lets say 32 division dispatch and tactical in quickkey 1 32 division tac and dispatch in quick key 2 and so on and then program fire and ems into seperat keys, and to program all of the remaining talkgroups into quickkey 0 leaving out the courts unless you want to hear the opening and closing doors. as a side note some of the less busy divisions ie 33 division share a dispatcher with 32 so the simply use a status bit of +3 which means 32 which is 4464 is patched to 33 by adding +3 so it would be broadcast on 4467 thus saving space on the system for busier divisions. same goes for downtown 11 & 12 are patched 13 & 14 are patched and the remining south 51-52-52-54-55 have their own dispatcher hope this helps pm me with any questions
 

pathalogical

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Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would add to this one. In listening to Toronto Police, I've heard some abbreviations that I don't know the meanings of, can anyone help ?

ARU ?
DAS ?
LOI or LOA ?
PARADE ?
When an officer says "I'm heading to the station to pick up my ESCORT, is that the same as saying 'partner' ? that is, a second officer will be in the vehicle ?
Call sign CM (charlie mike) seems to be used often. Is it a special group of officers ?

What happened to WHEELTRANS ? It used to be the most active TTC channel, but haven't heard anything in a very long time. I walked by a wheeltrans bus and did see a mic hooked on the dash, might have to use Close Call to stalk the local nursing home or hospital main enterance and see if anyone keys up the mic.

Thanks
 

Jay911

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I would put money on LOI being Location of Interest. Toronto uses the same CAD system my city does, and all that LOI means is that the location has a 'history' in CAD, either with regards to having attended that address before, or that there is some kind of special condition at that site. (We use it to mark hazmat or special medical conditions.)

Parade is probably simply the meeting held before going on the street - aka roll call, etc. Again, I've heard this referred to as Parade here as well.

Escort might be prisoner transfer or a ride-along, I'd be more inclined to believe prisoner (or other, i.e. office staff needing a ride home) transfer.
 

mciupa

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just to add to Jay's descriptions :

ARU is actually ERU (Emergency Response Unit) - this unit supplies the Mobile Command Posts and those lights that will turn a night sky to daylight.

DAS - is Department of Ambulance Service .
 

exkalibur

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pathalogical said:
ARU ?
DAS ?
LOI or LOA ?
PARADE ?
When an officer says "I'm heading to the station to pick up my ESCORT, is that the same as saying 'partner' ? that is, a second officer will be in the vehicle ?
Call sign CM (charlie mike) seems to be used often. Is it a special group of officers ?

What happened to WHEELTRANS ? It used to be the most active TTC channel, but haven't heard anything in a very long time. I walked by a wheeltrans bus and did see a mic hooked on the dash, might have to use Close Call to stalk the local nursing home or hospital main enterance and see if anyone keys up the mic.

Thanks
ARU - Alternate Response Unit
DAS - Department of Ambulatory Services (now Toronto EMS)
LOI - Location of Interest
PARADE - Roll call at the begining of the shift (a briefing)
Escort - Partner (as in, the guy in the passenger seat)
CM - Major Crime

There's also:
PRU(Primary Response Unit - the guys that come when you call 911)
CNI - Criminal Names Index
MANIX - Master Names Index
ECOPS - ElectroniC Occurence Processing System
Unified Search - Searches you on every database around
I/Mobile - name of the CAD system (provided by Intergraph)


TTC Wheel-Trans is still using the same channel (412.0625), but they have (for whatever reason) decided that a PL of 203.5 suits them better than 136.5. Interestingly enough though, keying up with a PL of 136.5 still "kerechunks" the repeater...so I'm told...
 

pathalogical

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Good Morning,

Thanks everyone for the replies. PL tone on TTC noted. Something else I noticed while listening to TTC. It seems that all calls are within the boundries of Toronto, but now with so many routes going north of Steeles Ave and I think also into Brampton/Mississauga, I've never heard any inspectors being dispatched outside the city limits for fare disputes, driver assaulted, ttc involved in collision, breakdown etc, especially when you hear calls like "TPS has been notified". I have never heard "YRP has been notified" or Peel region.
Are they on their own to call local authorities when out of Toronto ?
 
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