SDS100/SDS200: Proprietary Battery Packs

[Paysonscanner]

I've finally resigned myself to not getting the SDS-100, in part due to my battery needs for a handheld and this battery clip cover circus. I think I might, just maybe, buy the SDS-200 - no proprietorial batteries and no lame clip. We might be able to pick up eastern Maricopa SO traffic off Ord that way. Phase II P25 Trunking via a handheld will have to wait until a scanner manufacturer gets its act together, offers a handheld with AA battery capability and solves their quality control problems. Uniden also needs to solve its decades long poor service problems (attitude). Somehow I'm looking at this screen down a long pipe and daydreaming, don't you think?

 

[jonwienke]

Phase II P25 Trunking via a handheld will have to wait until a scanner manufacturer gets its act together, offers a handheld with AA battery capability and solves their quality control problems. Uniden also needs to solve its decades long poor service problems (attitude). Somehow I'm looking at this screen down a long pipe and daydreaming, don't you think?

That's simply unrealistic. The digital technology required to decode simulcast requires more power than any reasonable number of AA batteries can be expected to provide. That's the reason Uniden switched to lithium, and there isn't a common standardized lithium equivalent to the AA.

 

[buddrousa]

Also it was the users here that raised kane wanting the new battery and to get away from the AA's. They asked for it now they do not want it.

 

[Paysonscanner]

That's simply unrealistic. The digital technology required to decode simulcast requires more power than any reasonable number of AA batteries can be expected to provide. That's the reason Uniden switched to lithium, and there isn't a common standardized lithium equivalent to the AA.

My word picture about the long pipe was meant to be a parody of the old saying "pipe dream." I try to avoid proprietorial batteries every time. All my ham handhelds have AA battery packs available as does the BK handheld (which covers ham and up to 173.9875 megs) uses 9 handheld batteries and will last 12 or more hours on a fireline situation including transmitting. I think it is possible for a radio like the SDS-100 to be made to accomodate AA batteries, even if they have to be lithium rechargeables and I would accept a pack with 10-12 batteries. Since the scanner doesn't transmit it doesn't draw that peak power demand that transmitting involves. I'm not an EE, but just relating my experience with other radios. The BK was my late Hubby's, which he used as a volunteer rural fire district member. If other people want a proprietorial battery, how about a optional AA battery pack like Kenwood and King offer for transceivers. For preparedness, Hubby and I carried the AA battery holders for all our handheld scanners and transceivers, along with fresh batteries in every car, survival packs, 72 hour grab and go and in the house. This in case of an extended power outage. We also had portable solar panels and a propane powered generator. AA batteries outperform proprietorial batteries in these circumstances. In my opinion, if the scanner is drawing so much power then make the screen black and white, reduce the amount of information shown on the screen every time the scanner stops on a frequency or other ways to reduce power demand. I'm still of the opinion that the existing scanners can be designed to accommodate AA's, but there there is profit in not doing so. In fact, in the past, I've had AA battery packs rebuilt from Uniden proprietorial packs. The NiCad lady, if she is still in business, did the work for us.

 

[RRR]

I still don't recall people posting in any real number, wanting proprietorial batteries. Besides, that makes zero sense.

 

[buddrousa]

A link to one such post reply.

HP1 squelch tail on Moto Trunking systems

Looking back on RR this was discussed before but no resolution was mentioned. When monitoring our OKWIN system my HP1 will most of the time have a very annoying squelch tail. This occurs when the channel drops and the radio reverts to the control channel. Setting the squelch level has no effect...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[jonwienke]

I think it is possible for a radio like the SDS-100 to be made to accomodate AA batteries, even if they have to be lithium rechargeables and I would accept a pack with 10-12 batteries. Since the scanner doesn't transmit it doesn't draw that peak power demand that transmitting involves. I'm not an EE, but just relating my experience with other radios.

The SDS100 actually uses as much power as some transmitters to power the 3 CPUs--about 3 watts. And it does so constantly, not just when you're pressing the PTT button.

Also, if you're willing to accept the weight and bulk of an external battery pack with 12 Ni-Cd AAs, you're better off using a lithium battery pack like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FDK2G2C/

 

[Paysonscanner]

A link to one such post reply.

HP1 squelch tail on Moto Trunking systems

Looking back on RR this was discussed before but no resolution was mentioned. When monitoring our OKWIN system my HP1 will most of the time have a very annoying squelch tail. This occurs when the channel drops and the radio reverts to the control channel. Setting the squelch level has no effect...

forums.radioreference.com

I read every post and didn't see any mention of proprietorial batteries vs. standard AA's.

 

[Paysonscanner]

The SDS100 actually uses as much power as some transmitters to power the 3 CPUs--about 3 watts. And it does so constantly, not just when you're pressing the PTT button.

Also, if you're willing to accept the weight and bulk of an external battery pack with 12 Ni-Cd AAs, you're better off using a lithium battery pack like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FDK2G2C/

I would not carry one of those supplemental power sources as they are too big and bulky. When I backpack I have a roll up solar panel that charges 4 AA batteries. All my GRE/Radio Shack scanners use 4 AA's. I carry two sets of AA's, one powering the radio and the other in the charger. I can do this while hiking. I can't do this with a proprietorial battery as they have wall warts to charge or drop in chargers that are huge and bulky. This is why I won't buy a portable/handheld radio that doesn't use AA batteries. At home I have a great charger, from Powerex that charges and can recondition AA batteries. I use 2700 mAh AA's. The last 5-6 years depending on how often I have to recharge them. I don't have anymore room left on my radio desk (11 total handhelds and one frequency detector) for another large stand up charger and a wall wart to power it.

If the radio uses that much power, reduce the number of bells and whistles. The color screen can go, the dozen or more lines of information are not needed. I'm not sure, once I purchase the SDS200 that I will like the screen. If it is to busy looking I may return the unit.

 

[p19997]

I'm not sure, once I purchase the SDS200 that I will like the screen. If it is to busy looking I may return the unit.

The color screen does not use a lot of power. It is the CPU's. As for the display looking busy , you can customize what gets displayed down to only what you want.

 

[hiegtx]

I would not carry one of those supplemental power sources as they are too big and bulky. When I backpack I have a roll up solar panel that charges 4 AA batteries. All my GRE/Radio Shack scanners use 4 AA's. I carry two sets of AA's, one powering the radio and the other in the charger. I can do this while hiking. I can't do this with a proprietorial battery as they have wall warts to charge or drop in chargers that are huge and bulky. This is why I won't buy a portable/handheld radio that doesn't use AA batteries. At home I have a great charger, from Powerex that charges and can recondition AA batteries. I use 2700 mAh AA's. The last 5-6 years depending on how often I have to recharge them. I don't have anymore room left on my radio desk (11 total handhelds and one frequency detector) for another large stand up charger and a wall wart to power it.

If the radio uses that much power, reduce the number of bells and whistles. The color screen can go, the dozen or more lines of information are not needed. I'm not sure, once I purchase the SDS200 that I will like the screen. If it is to busy looking I may return the unit.

The "bells and whistles" are the type of receiver, with an SDR, that allow the scanner to successfully decode simulcast systems. That is what is drawing the power that a set of AA batteries cannot replace. The color display, in and of itself, is not the high power draw. If you downgrade the receiver system, to use less power, then you're losing the functionality that handles simulcast distortion. If you did that, with or without a color display, then you might as well just look at the 436/536HP scanners. They use less power, but also don't work nearly as well on simulcast systems.

 

[Paysonscanner]

I cleaned up my last post to read better. Here it is:

If the radio is using 3-5 watts continuously I don't know how it lasts an hour or two. If I transmit on my King or one of my Kenwood TH-6A's nearly continuously the battery gets hot and doesn't keep its charge very long at all.

If the radio uses that much power, reduce the number of bells and whistles. The color screen can go, the dozen or more lines of information are not needed, in my own opinion and needs. I'm not sure, once I purchase the SDS200, that I will like the screen. If it is too busy looking I may return the unit. My parents are in their 90's and a complicated screen might not work for them.

When I'm backpacking I usually carry one scanner and one ham radio. Our handheld scanners are GRE's (exception - an old BC235) and our handheld ham radios consist of 3 Kenwoods and a King. We also have 3 FRS/GMRS handhelds and they all use AA batteries or the proprietorial battery they came with. When I'm backpacking, I have a roll up solar panel that I attach to the rear of the backpack. It only charges AA batteries. The ham radios use proprietorial batteries, but all of them have AA battery packs available as options as well. I use these packs when backpacking and we have them in survival packs, cars, etc. loaded with alkaline AA's for emergencies. I don't have room on my desk or enough outlets to place one more stand up charger or wall wart into the mix. We have a total of 11 handhelds and one frequency detector. I think the SDS100 can be charged via a 12V cigarette lighter type plug. My roll up solar panel doesn't have a 12v jack. I have a Maha AA charger that charges and can recondition 8 AA batteries, which are all 2700mAh capacity. I have 42 of these AA's for all of our devices. Power outages in the rural area in California where Hubby and I lived were more frequent than in the city. We have dozens of AA batteries stored for emergencies here in Payson.

Thanks for the links to the portable power supplies. They are too big and bulky for backpacking. The King 9 cell AA pack is not much bigger than their standard proprietorial battery, maybe 1/4" longer. This is what I had in mind for a AA battery pack for the SDS100. Heck, I'd be willing to carry one that is 1-2" longer than the standard battery it has.

I will mention that I've found Uniden's service to be very poor, so I guess I'm biased against their products.

 

[Paysonscanner]

The "bells and whistles" are the type of receiver, with an SDR, that allow the scanner to successfully decode simulcast systems. That is what is drawing the power that a set of AA batteries cannot replace. The color display, in and of itself, is not the high power draw. If you downgrade the receiver system, to use less power, then you're losing the functionality that handles simulcast distortion. If you did that, with or without a color display, then you might as well just look at the 436/536HP scanners. They use less power, but also don't work nearly as well on simulcast systems.

Thank you! I'm learning a lot from all of you by posting my own thoughts, as simple and uninformed as they might be. The information about power draw and simulcasting distortion is very useful. Like I said I don't have room for one more stand up charger and wall wart. I can't think of anyplace I backpack or day hike where simulcast reception is an issue. Backpacking and day hiking are primary uses for a handheld scanner. Simulcast is a big city issue and so far it isn't an issue here in the part of Gila Co., AZ we live in. I'm almost certain I'm going to buy the SDS200 and just keep it at home in Payson. When visiting family in the valley, I won't have a Phase II capable scanner and that's too bad. If we visit more than a night or two, we might bring the SDS200 with us.

 

[Paysonscanner]

One other plus for AA battery use, you can be in some very remote locations with stores about the size of a gas station mini mart and you will nearly always find AA batteries on the shelf. So if the rechargeables are dead, all the AA alkalines you carry for emergencies are drained, you can find more AA batteries. Nearly all the backpacking electronic devices available use AA, flashlights, headlamps, etc. Hubby and I did not buy anything for camping/backpacking/hiking that used any other size or type of battery. That's because of their widespread availability. It is also much better to have only one size of battery needed for things in cases where you might be hanging on a rope, climbing a ridge all roped together or in adverse weather at night when your headlamp goes dead. Those are not times when you need to remember if something uses a AA, AAA, C or button battery and fish around in your pack blindly to find the spares. Brands of equipment sold that don't use AA's usually sell poorly.

 

[buddrousa]

As posted the screen is not the power hog.
As posted the scanner would have to have 12 batteries to make the power to run the scanner no bells and whistles it takes that much power for the receiver.

 

[jonwienke]

If your su

One other plus for AA battery use, you can be in some very remote locations with stores about the size of a gas station mini mart and you will nearly always find AA batteries on the shelf. So if the rechargeables are dead, all the AA alkalines you carry for emergencies are drained, you can find more AA batteries.

If your survival planning hinges on finding supplies at a hole-in-the-wall store in the middle of nowhere, you need a better survival plan.

The power requirements for the SDS100 are for its core functionality (the multiple CPUs needed to digitize the RF signal and decode simulcast), not "bells and whistles", and AA batteries are never going to be a viable power supply for it. Maybe a future generation of the model with chips that consume less power, but definitely not this one. Lithium is the only practical option.

 

[hiegtx]

Thank you! I'm learning a lot from all of you by posting my own thoughts, as simple and uninformed as they might be. The information about power draw and simulcasting distortion is very useful. Like I said I don't have room for one more stand up charger and wall wart. I can't think of anyplace I backpack or day hike where simulcast reception is an issue. Backpacking and day hiking are primary uses for a handheld scanner. Simulcast is a big city issue and so far it isn't an issue here in the part of Gila Co., AZ we live in. I'm almost certain I'm going to buy the SDS200 and just keep it at home in Payson. When visiting family in the valley, I won't have a Phase II capable scanner and that's too bad. If we visit more than a night or two, we might bring the SDS200 with us.

As far as having a scanner for use when backpacking, out in the boonies where Simulcast is not an issue, consider the BCD325P2. While this model is not a good choice where simulcast lurks, it would work well in a rural area with much less radio activity than in a dense metro area. It's also a small, light weight, scanner, another plus for backpacking. It's downside, in urban areas with heavy radio usage, is that the batteries do not last as long as, say, the 436HP scanner. But in a rural area, with limited radio usage compared to a city, that would not be as big an issue. Also, the 325P2 uses only two AA batteries (one reason for the shorter run time), whereas the 436HP uses 3 AA batteries. So, for the same six batteries for a 436 (one set in the scanner, and a charged set for when those are exhausted), you would have two reloads for the 325 compared to only one for the 436. The 325P2 does not have the 'bells and whistles' of the 436HP, like programmable alert LEDs, and the full database on a memory card among others, it is a good, sensitive, unit, and a good grab and go size.

 

[Paysonscanner]

If your survival planning hinges on finding supplies at a hole-in-the-wall store in the middle of nowhere, you need a better survival plan.

The power requirements for the SDS100 are for its core functionality (the multiple CPUs needed to digitize the RF signal and decode simulcast), not "bells and whistles", and AA batteries are never going to be a viable power supply for it. Maybe a future generation of the model with chips that consume less power, but definitely not this one. Lithium is the only practical option.

I did not say anything about "survival planning." My use for the scanner and the roll up solar panel for charging batteries while backpacking is recreational. We also used scanners/ham radios and these panels while car camping and river running, which we did in some very remote locations. In those situations we came across some remote small stores that had AA batteries nearly every time. I did mention survival packs kept in cars and the grab and go (7 day for 2 persons) kept in the closet by the front door. Each of those, plus the tool boxes in each car, have AA batteries and AA battery holders for each ham radio. This is just normal "keeping backups for your backups," not for some type of survival in the "prepper" context.

Remote and small stores almost always have Coleman stove fuel. It is also carried in mountain town full sized grocery stores. Our backpacking/rafting stoves were all white gas fueled. For car camping we had the traditional 2 burner Coleman stove and Coleman lanterns. What small remote stores did not carry was the large variety of butane canisters (proprietorial) that various stove brands use. So, just like the batteries, we chose appliances fueled (powered) by something nearly universally available.

Survival planning for home is fairly well taken care of with 2 generators (each propane and gasoline capable), portable solar panels, a 30 day supply of 30 year shelf life canned water for 3 people, 50 days of food for 3 people (all we have room for), 2+ weeks of every day type food in the pantry at all times, firearms with lots of ammo, a shop full of tools, yada, yada. My late Hubby was responsible for emergency logistics for a small rural county on the west side of the Sierra Nevada in California and I was a nurse in the county's hospital where emergency planning/drilling was frequent. For example, the state of California required that our hospital have a large permanently installed diesel emergency generator, with 6 weeks of fuel for it in an underground tank. My Hubby spent 30+ years on a volunteer fire department. We had our own well at our home in CA and a 5,000 gallon tank, plus a rainwater collection system for the greenhouse. Given our work experience and travel to remote places we (now just me) picked up a thing or two about survival planning. My Daddy was a civil engineer for the U.S. Forest Service and worked on fires, floods, etc. from 1949 to the late 80's. He knows a thing or two about survival planning himself.

 

[Paysonscanner]

As far as having a scanner for use when backpacking, out in the boonies where Simulcast is not an issue, consider the BCD325P2. While this model is not a good choice where simulcast lurks, it would work well in a rural area with much less radio activity than in a dense metro area. It's also a small, light weight, scanner, another plus for backpacking. It's downside, in urban areas with heavy radio usage, is that the batteries do not last as long as, say, the 436HP scanner. But in a rural area, with limited radio usage compared to a city, that would not be as big an issue. Also, the 325P2 uses only two AA batteries (one reason for the shorter run time), whereas the 436HP uses 3 AA batteries. So, for the same six batteries for a 436 (one set in the scanner, and a charged set for when those are exhausted), you would have two reloads for the 325 compared to only one for the 436. The 325P2 does not have the 'bells and whistles' of the 436HP, like programmable alert LEDs, and the full database on a memory card among others, it is a good, sensitive, unit, and a good grab and go size.

I already have a GRE PSR-500 and a PRO-96, so I don't need another handheld scanner for the boonies. Both use 4 AA batteries. I always carry two battery holders on backpacking trips, one charging, one in use. Sometimes I just carry the Kenwood TH-F6A handheld and use it for both 2m/70cm ham comms and as a scanner. It is a bit more rugged than scanners and is smaller and lighter as well.

 

[maus92]

This is an *interesting* thread. I sold my SDS100, and use a Unication G5 for portable use. My SDS200s are a) permanently mounted in my vehicle and b) in the office. The Unication is comparatively small, and has a battery that can power it for the day. I prefer the Unication over the SDS100, but a user actually has to "operate" it, meaning knowing where you are, and what Zone / knob position to use. It is definitely not a "scanner" that can be left alone to do its job. As for the upcoming scanning functionality for the Unication radios, I am skeptical about its practicality and potential power / battery capacity issues. We shall see.