Providence Fire Dept

[frankie811]

I've noticed lately that the PFD is dispatching ladder companies much more frequently than normal to calls or street fireboxes that they would normally send an engine company. I've been listening to the PFD for over 50 years and this seems to be a new policy. Or maybe they're just trying to save wear & tear on the much-used engine trucks. And before someone suggests it, no, the area engine companies weren't tied up on other calls.

 

[wa1lad]

SOG change by the new chief of department.....

 

[frankie811]

SOG change by the new chief of department.....

I know what SOP is, but not SOG. Please define.

 

[AlexC]

Standard Operating Guidelines.

In some fire departments Chief's will review the number of calls their apparatus respond to and the types of calls. Engine companies are in greater supply than ladder companies in most departments. There are a number of reasons why - but for the most part it's likely simple things like ladder trucks cost far more than engine's do. You can only fit so many ladders close to a structure to fight the fire, etc. You want your ladders to be available for reasons you need ladder for. Tying them up on medicals is not always the most practical use of the equipment. More wear and tear if the truck goes to 20 medicals vs an engine which costs less to incur same wear.... At the same time the bean counters don't always understand why the engine does 1000 runs a year and the ladder does 300, you want your department members proficient in ems - so you adjust what locations and call types the ladder is first due to vs the engine.

Again - whole host of "reasons" but likely the answer is a simple and practical one.

 

[frankie811]

Standard Operating Guidelines.

In some fire departments Chief's will review the number of calls their apparatus respond to and the types of calls. Engine companies are in greater supply than ladder companies in most departments. There are a number of reasons why - but for the most part it's likely simple things like ladder trucks cost far more than engine's do. You can only fit so many ladders close to a structure to fight the fire, etc. You want your ladders to be available for reasons you need ladder for. Tying them up on medicals is not always the most practical use of the equipment. More wear and tear if the truck goes to 20 medicals vs an engine which costs less to incur same wear.... At the same time the bean counters don't always understand why the engine does 1000 runs a year and the ladder does 300, you want your department members proficient in ems - so you adjust what locations and call types the ladder is first due to vs the engine.

Again - whole host of "reasons" but likely the answer is a simple and practical one.

Thanks!

 

[wa1lad]

you want your department members proficient in ems

Thats what the EMS units are for.....

Bad idea having the ladder going to a commercial alarm across the street from an Engine company, longer response times. Poor resource management.....

 

[frankie811]

Thats what the EMS units are for.....

Bad idea having the ladder going to a commercial alarm across the street from an Engine company, longer response times. Poor resource management.....

Early this morning I heard a ladder company dispatched to a street box alarm. The truck was coming from about 3+ miles away when the local engine company was about 1/2 mile down the road. Which brings me to another problem. Street alarm boxes. Almost 100% of them are malicious false alarms. They need to be dismantled. The phone companies did away with phone booths & the RIDOT did away with highway call boxes. The time has come to do away with pull boxes throughout the city. Everyone has a cell phone. Keep the commercial alarms of course. Does anyone know which cities other than Providence still have street boxes? I live in East Providence which only has commercial boxes which I believe most are transmitted in the 72-76 Mhz range. Another problem is fire departments throughout the area are constantly responding to commercial alarms that are accidentally set off by workmen. There should be more regulations & Penalties for this nuisance.

 

[frankie811]

Standard Operating Guidelines.

You want your ladders to be available for reasons you need ladder for. Tying them up on medicals is not always the most practical use of the equipment. More wear and tear if the truck goes to 20 medicals vs an engine which costs less to incur same wear.

In Providence & local communities, fire apparatus always accompanies rescue (EMS) units. This started in Seattle like 45 years ago. It was shown to reduce heart attack victim fatalities. In 1974, the TV news-magazine 60 Minutes profiled the success of Medic One, lauding the high standards of training and education provided by the Seattle training program. Correspondent Morley Safer declared, "If you have to have a heart attack, have it in Seattle". The phrase is still used frequently in conjunction with Medic One, due to its continued success which is reflected in the area's high survival rate for heart attacks and their comprehensive CPR training program.[8][9]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_%26_King_County_Emergency_Medical_Services_System

 

[garys]

About 20 years ago, Boston Fire Department added both ladders and the two rescues to the mix for EMS calls. Stations with an engine and a ladder or engine and a rescue would alternate months responding to medical calls.

I was told it was that the Commissioner/Chief wanted to even out the work load as starting in the late 1990s members on engine companies with sufficient seniority would transfer to other assignments if they could. One Captain I knew went to the marine unit to get away from the constant flow of medical calls his engine only station was responding to.

I don't know if it worked, but last I heard they were still doing it.

Standard Operating Guidelines.

In some fire departments Chief's will review the number of calls their apparatus respond to and the types of calls. Engine companies are in greater supply than ladder companies in most departments. There are a number of reasons why - but for the most part it's likely simple things like ladder trucks cost far more than engine's do. You can only fit so many ladders close to a structure to fight the fire, etc. You want your ladders to be available for reasons you need ladder for. Tying them up on medicals is not always the most practical use of the equipment. More wear and tear if the truck goes to 20 medicals vs an engine which costs less to incur same wear.... At the same time the bean counters don't always understand why the engine does 1000 runs a year and the ladder does 300, you want your department members proficient in ems - so you adjust what locations and call types the ladder is first due to vs the engine.

Again - whole host of "reasons" but likely the answer is a simple and practical one.

 

[wa1lad]

One Captain I knew went to the marine unit to get away from the constant flow of medical calls his engine only station was responding to.

Here you go....

'Dysfunctional': Providence rescues slammed with non-emergency 911 calls

Target 12 obtained data that shows thousands of calls the Providence Fire Department has responded to so far this year did not need or even end up requiring transport to the emergency room.

www.wpri.com

.....NOBODY wants to chase the EMS unit, rescue, bone box, suck bus.....or whatever you call it, around all day and night.....

 

[garys]

I don't know the Rhode Island EMS protocols, however in Massachusetts if somebody calls 911 and says they want an ambulance an ambulance has to respond. If they respond they have to offer transport to the person who called. Necessity doesn't play into it at all.

Here you go....

'Dysfunctional': Providence rescues slammed with non-emergency 911 calls

Target 12 obtained data that shows thousands of calls the Providence Fire Department has responded to so far this year did not need or even end up requiring transport to the emergency room.

www.wpri.com

.....NOBODY wants to chase the EMS unit, rescue, bone box, suck bus.....or whatever you call it, around all day and night.....

 

[ecps92]

Early this morning I heard a ladder company dispatched to a street box alarm. The truck was coming from about 3+ miles away when the local engine company was about 1/2 mile down the road. Which brings me to another problem. Street alarm boxes. Almost 100% of them are malicious false alarms. They need to be dismantled. The phone companies did away with phone booths & the RIDOT did away with highway call boxes. The time has come to do away with pull boxes throughout the city. Everyone has a cell phone. Keep the commercial alarms of course. Does anyone know which cities other than Providence still have street boxes? I live in East Providence which only has commercial boxes which I believe most are transmitted in the 72-76 Mhz range. Another problem is fire departments throughout the area are constantly responding to commercial alarms that are accidentally set off by workmen. There should be more regulations & Penalties for this nuisance.

- NECRAT

www.necrat.us

Radio Fire Alarm Boxes - Scan New England Wiki

www.snewiki.com

 

[sefrischling]

Does anyone know which cities other than Providence still have street boxes?

For the greater region, off the top of my head ...

New York City has roughly 15,000 of them in service.

You can see a map of Boston's fire alarm boxes here :

BostonMaps Open Data Site

Boston Maps Open Data Site. Created 01/09/2019

bostonopendata-boston.opendata.arcgis.com

Hartford also has fire alarm boxes.

 

[W1KNE]

For the greater region, off the top of my head ...

New York City has roughly 15,000 of them in service.

You can see a map of Boston's fire alarm boxes here :

BostonMaps Open Data Site

Boston Maps Open Data Site. Created 01/09/2019

bostonopendata-boston.opendata.arcgis.com

Hartford also has fire alarm boxes.

I maintain a list (although it's about a year outdated) of box systems at - NECRAT (If there are any corrections in your area, please let me know.!)

 

[trp2525]

...Does anyone know which cities other than Providence still have street boxes?...

The Town of West Warwick, RI (located about 10 miles southwest of Providence, RI for those not familiar) still uses and maintains their Gamewell street boxes. When they receive a street box you can hear them dispatching apparatus to the Gamewell box number with corresponding street location/address on their channel 1 dispatch frequency of 154.4300 with PL 107.2.

 

[rmb75]

Grew up in that town and had a standalone street box in front of our house. It really stuck out on the side of a suburban street between two front yards.

 

[frankie811]

I maintain a list (although it's about a year outdated) of box systems at - NECRAT (If there are any corrections in your area, please let me know.!)

What does the acronym NECRAT stand for?

 

[W1KNE]

It's part of my broadcast oriented website. When I initially started it, it was just a directory of towers. So it was North East Commercial Radio and Towers. Since it has gone beyond that, it really has no meaning now. And the Gamewell list I maintain is on my website, so the header shows up as that.

 

[W1KNE]

Hartford also has fire alarm boxes.

At one time, Hartford had the largest system in the US by ratio of size to box count.