Public Service Pool

[bhowle]

Mod - if this is in the wrong area please move.

I guess I have become the default comm officer for our volunteer fire department in NW Arkansas.

Can someone please direct me to a source that will help me understand the public service radio pool batch of frequencies?

As far as I can tell we're operating without a license(s) and our repeater isn't sending an ID.

I have a feeling it's only a matter of time before the black SUVs surround our fire house.

Thanks,

-bob

 

[ThinBlueLine22]

Well, what is the department? Who does your dispatching? I see several licensed frequencies in Carroll County.

 

[powerlineman]

public safety pool

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2009-title47-vol5/pdf/CFR-2009-title47-vol5-part90.pdf

scroll down to:
90.15 definition
90.20 freq pool

 

[bldavis]

You need to get in touch with APCO, which can help you get it sorted out. The risk you run, is mainly that your freqs will be returned to the list of open channels and reassigned to someone else.

You might also touch base with the nearest dealer for you equipment as well for advice.

 

[davidgcet]

The risk you run, is mainly that your freqs will be returned to the list of open channels and reassigned to someone else.

You might also touch base with the nearest dealer for you equipment as well for advice.

to the first part, the risk you run is fines of 8,000.00 or more PER OFFENSE. not just that the freqs are taken away.

as to teh second part, i agree 1000%. if your agency does not have the funds, then do fund raisers or talk the county into footing part or all of the cost.

just because the repeater does not ID does not mean you don't hold a license, many agencies don't enable CWID. if it is not enabled, users must give the CS though.

 

[bldavis]

The likelihood that the FCC would undertake an enforcement because you were making a good faith effort to get you licenses current, is probably somewhat less than zero, especially if they haven't issued any warning letters as required by their process. The likelihood of losing your freqs, on the other hand, is quite high, given the many expanding agencies hungry to add more channels to their systems. Beyond that APCO coordinates public safety freqs in most areas, and they have no fine process.

It would be quite foolish not to work to get those channels legal and licensed. I would urge you not to listen to comments from amateurs in this regard. Getting them licensed could save you far far more than the fine (unlikely though it is). Supposed, after losing your freqs, you are forced to change bands? I expect replacing 100% of your equipment might run a few dollars more than any fine.

As to cwid, are you sure it isn't being broadcast? Many systems hide that from users using tones or trunking methods. A dealer should be willing to help you check it and get it set, he's going to want your business later.

Lastly, you may want to contact system managers in your area. We help each other out when we can.

 

[davidgcet]

you don't read up on enforcement actions do you? even good faith efforts are not an excuse in the eyes of the FCC. they may or may not send a warning letter, odds are they will send one BUT the agency will have to cease radio operations until they get a legal license. the FCC does not even take the excuse that you never got the renewal notice, it is 100% up to the licensee to make sure they are compliant at all times.

i agree that the OP needs to verify they are legal, and if not they need to get a license now. if they are VHF they can request their original freqs and may get lucky and get them, but there are no guarantees. odds are a little better of retaining them on other bands, but in many areas VHF is so congested you will likely get new freqs. also they will be forced to go ahead and go NB, as no new apps are being allowed for WB service, so it this will accelerate their move.

i had a couple FD that let their licenses lapse a couple years ago. The original freqs were no longer available since someone else had been licensed on them within the contour, so they had to refreq everything. luckily for them they caught the mistake and not the FCC, even the coordinator said not to mention the continued operation on the expired license to the FCC should they contact them unless they wanted a fine. the law is clear, even 1 day past license expiration is a violation and a warning is not necessarily given.

 

[bldavis]

Whether or not the FCC are Nazis or supportive professionals, really isn't germane, and doesn't effect the things you need to do.

1. Call the nearest larger cities and speak to the person managing their radio system. Ask his or her advice. Most likely, they will be able to give you the contact names and numbers for the frequency coordinators that you need to get in contact with. You may also find, that they will go out of their way to help you. I know I've gone in and done work for other towns that lacked the resources to do this kind of thing, and most of my peers are dedicated to helping public safety groups get talking.

2. Prepare for the worst case - your freqs have been re-allocated. Contact the nearest vendor of your equipment, and start a dialog. Most of these salesmenarn't bad guys, and they can give you a good idea of the cost impacts of various scenarios related to getting legal again.

3. Hope for the best case, you get your freqs back, an ca get back in business easily.

4. Get the process rolling - hoping for e best and doing nothing may end up getting your system shut down for a unfortunate period of time.

I wish you luck, ad remember - you're the guy fixing the problem, not the one who caused it, so the angels are on your side.

 

[davidgcet]

actually since this is for FD you need to contact IMSA. APCO can file it for you, but they will just add their fees to IMSA's and it will cost more.

IMSA - International Municipal Signal Association - IMSA Frequency Coordination Fees for more info if you want a general idea. if you get a radio to handle the filing with IMSA, expect to pay a couple hundred or so more than the listed fees. call IMSA to verify teh fees, many VHF fees schedules are per frequency so a repeater can cost 2x what a simplex license does. if they require outside coordination with APCO or another PS coordinator due to lack of available spectrum in your area you will pay additional as well.