Quebec Firetruck stopped at border from Mutual aid request from Clinton County, NY

[Jammin_Jay]

A quebec firetruck was stopped and inspected at border. Clinton County NY had a mutual aid call to the fire at Rouses Point, NY. The fire truck was delayed 8 minutes.

Here is the link CNN story:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/14/border.firetruck/index.html

 

[hoser147]

Had a mutual aid contract for approx 50 years. I wonder how often they provided Mutual aid since 9/11? You would thnk that one of the Border crossing agents from either side could have spoken up and made things go alot faster. Im sure their are radio's that could have come into play. Since 9/11 the US has preached to secure emergency vehicles as they could be used in a terrorist attack. 8 Min is a long time for the situation. Maybe someone at the FD comms center should have made a call to the border.................Hoser

 

[Jammin_Jay]

Someone from NY state or even in clinton county, can correct me if i am wrong, but i believe there are Talkgroups for Quebec Fire Trucks on the Clinton County Trunkings System.

 

[LathamScan]

That is true. Of the Quebec Provincial Fire Departments that are part of the Clinton County Fire Mutual Aid System - to include Lacolle, St. Bernard de Lacolle, St. Paul de l'Ile aux Noix, and Hemmingford - have 800 MHz. radios in their apparatus that respond to Clinton County. Not only that, but I do believe that each of those departments also have a seperate talk group on the 800 system (just like the 1C/2C/3C department channels the rest of the county's fire & EMS services have). The same with Alburg & Isle La Motte, VT - when I was a member there we had Clinton County 800 radios in the apparatus as well as our own talk group, which we honestly didnt use much.

Before 9/11, I had responded to several mutual aid fires in Quebec from Alburg, either in my own personal vehicle or on an apparatus. NEVER had I been stopped for longer than 30 seconds (enough time for the Canadian Customs officer to ask me where the fire was). Typically, after the call, I would stop back at the same Canadian Customs office where I had crossed and filled in the on duty officer as to what happened.

Unfortunately, it appears common sense has flown out the window again.

Kevin

 

[WILSON43]

Oh, if we only had this type of scrutiny at ALL our borders, we wouldn't be dealing with 10 to 20 million illegal immigrants right now, and much more to come every day.

What a joke....

 

[cookiend15]

Jerks

Sound like the US Border Patrol agents were simply being *******s in the case. I understand that after 9/11 security has gotten alot tighter, however how would 1 of the Border Patrol officers feel if it was there house that was burning down that the Quebec Fire Department was going to help put out.

People need to use some common sense, and in this case our own Border Patrol agents screwed up big time.

 

[gralston73]

I'm going to chime in on this one because I knew this was going to happen when the new passport policy went into effect. Do I think that there should be exceptions to the policy for those responding to an emergency on either side of the border? Yes I do. Do I understand the reasoning behind the current policy? Of course I do. However, I don't think the US side is going to budge very much on this issue. Chief officers on our side are going to have to act more quickly in determining wether or not they are going to need to call for mutual aid from the other side...simply due to the fact that there is going to be a delay in response. Did the delay in this case cause the building to be lost? I doubt it according to the news story. However, it did cause those firefighters operating on the scene to wait for fresh replacements...which is dangerous. The only real solution I see is to call for mutual aid early...it's so much easier to turn them back...than to have to wait. Just my .02

 

[DaveNF2G]

This needs to be dealt with at the federal level. Local fire chiefs should not have to consider whether or not everyone on a mutual aid truck is going to remember to bring their passport with them. Clinton County, NY, can't be the only place where this sort of idiocy is possible.

[EDIT] Apparently the problem was that one of the Canadian firefighters had a criminal record. This is a case of blind adherence to a normally sensible and praiseworthy policy in a situation it was not intended to cover. I don't think any Border Patrol agent in their right mind would really believe that a criminal would join the local fire department, then wait for a fire call so they could try to enter the U.S. illegally in such a spectacular, attention-drawing manner.

 

[radionerd13669]

I guess you gotta look at it from both angles.You cant really fault the us customs because that is their job regarless.Its not an issue that is exclusive to clinton county and to be be frank the federal gov will most likll ever change that operation.

I know we have call on the internation bridge ever once in a while and I had to cross the entire bridge to loop back on to it when I got back to the building the us boarder patrol was there waiting because I did not check into canada.I had red lights on and never went to the booth just looped back on the bridge,That caused enough problems never again

 

[ChrisMorrison]

The Border Patrol is staffed with political hacks, who in turn appoint flunkies to supervisory positions. Anyway, they were just doing their job! Suppose that fire truck had been packed with explosives, drugs, or illegal aliens. You just can't trust these damned furners, and don't forget Canucks are furners!

 

[n4voxgill]

and if a group of terrorist bought or stole a firetruck in Canada and loaded it with a low yeild device and then come flying up to the border and are waived through, then the same people *****ing now would be *****ing why didn't the border patrol do its job.

I do believe the orginal article said their was one fireman with a record that may well not have been eleigible to come accross the border.

 

[hoser147]

If thats the case the one that held thing up should have stayed at the border, and let the others go on to the call...............Hoser

 

[Spec]

Amazing that it seems to be the Border Patrols fault for doing their job when in fact the fire personnel didn't preform their's as they where supposed to. I find it hard to believe that there is no procedure for cross border response in this present state of the world. If there is none why not and if there is why was it not followed by the responding agency ? Maybe the FD Chiefs need to re-enforce the proper procedures to their personnel.

 

[gralston73]

All of this has come about due to the new passport rules that have recently gone into effect.

As I stated before, I really don't see either side relaxing the rules in regards to emergency vehicles involved in a cross-border response. Chief officers on both sides need to be proactive and call for mutual aid earlier since they know there is going to be a delay. Perhaps it's time to go over any mutual aid preplans and bump up the foreign guys to an earlier alarm???? It's easier to realize additional units are not going to be needed and turn them back...than to be caught with your pants down while waiting for the Border Agents to do their jobs the right way...

 

[Jay911]

On one hand, I can understand that illegals or criminal elements crossing the border on a fire truck or other emergency vehicle is a very real possibility. On the other hand, it's ridiculous to hold back emergency services even in this kind of situation.

Even in a volunteer agency, you should be able to 'clear' your employees so that they can do their job without unnecessary delays at the border. Airports do this all the time with the firefighters and medics and other staff that have to cross into the secured zone (especially in my area where the city fire/EMS crews are the ones contracted/responsible for the airport fire/EMS servicing). It would not take a major undertaking to pre-screen the responders so that, at the very worst, the fire crew can say "Joe Smith, Bob Brown, Will Monitor, Rick O'Shea, and Jane Doe are on pumper 3417 going from Road Narrows, NY, to Sometown, QC, for a house fire" and the border agents will be able to say "Yup, they're all on the OK list, keep the hammer down and good luck with the fire".

 

[ve2vfd]

A couple of details...

I spoke to a brother firefighter in that area and the delay was not 8 minutes as claimed in US medias, but well over 15 minutes as reported in medias here.

The "North Country" cross border mutual aid pact has been in effect since the 1950's, and there has never been a serious problem with US Customs before, even after 9/11. There are on average 25-40 cross border mutual aid calls each way per year in that area and this is the first time an overzealous guard delayed an emergency vehicle.

And to make things even more interesting, the fire was literally within walking distance of the border crossing (less than 1 mile)... I have no doubt that the border guard could see the fire.

Things that make you go hmmmm!

Pat

 

[Jay911]

Seems the northeastern US has a thing against us Canucks...

(emphasis in below post is mine)

U.S. Customs delays ambulance at border
Heart-attack patient was in the back; siren, flashing lights were on
Dave Battagello, CanWest News Service
Published: Saturday, November 17, 2007

WINDSOR, Ont. -- An ambulance rushing a heart attack victim to Detroit from a Windsor hospital ill-equipped to perform life-saving surgery was stopped for secondary inspection Monday by U.S. Customs, despite the fact it carried a man fighting for his life.

Rick Laporte, 49 -- who twice had been brought back to life with defibrillators -- was being rushed across the border when a U.S. border guard ignored protocol at the Detroit portion of the tunnel and forced the ambulance -- with siren and lights flashing -- to pull over.

"If I'm that person in the booth, and there is an ambulance coming with a critically injured person, I'm not stopping the damn thing," said Kat Lauzon, Laporte's girlfriend. "I'm irate. I can't figure it out. He could have died, and I would have blamed that person for murder."

U.S. Customs officers at the secondary inspection site told the ambulance driver to go inside the office to produce identification, said a frustrated Larry Amlin, of Windsor Essex EMS.

Other guards told the paramedic crew to open the back doors of the ambulance, then asked Laporte to verbally confirm his identify, said Lauzon. She learned afterward of the incident from Laporte, who survived his life-saving emergency angioplasty surgery at Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital.

Laporte, a Canadian Auto Workers U_nion executive, remained in the cardiac care unit yesterday in serious condition.

"This was a life-saving procedure," Lauzon said yesterday, still furious. "What if it was one of their mothers in the ambulance? Would they pull it in? No damn way."

"This was not normal circumstances," she added. "How many drug dealers do you know that get a police escort in the back of an ambulance to go across the border? What is their damn reason for pulling it in?"

Chief Ron Smith of U.S. Customs and Border Protection in Detroit could not be reached yesterday.

Amlin said the ambulance, according to well-established protocol, received a police escort to the tunnel entrance with several intersections blocked off to help speed the trip. Tunnel traffic was shut down and, after the ambulance arrived at the border crossing, a tunnel company pickup truck with flashing lights, led it to a designated U.S. Customs lane where it was supposed to be waved through.

"We have a system set up. We are to be pre-cleared and no problems," Amlin said.

Last weekend a Quebec fire truck responding to an emergency request for assistance in upstate New York was delayed at the U.S. border despite having lights and sirens activated.

"Current policies and procedures must be immediately reviewed to ensure that first responders on both sides of the border can continue to save lives," said Bennie Thompson, chairman of the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security, in Washington yesterday.


© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007

 

[DaveNF2G]

more PC madness - wait and see

I expect that the official explanation for these incidents, if one is ever given, will involve some sort of PC-inspired attempt to avoid being accused of "profiling" or giving offense to any thin-skinned groups out there by being able to say, "We stop anything and anyone, not just suspicious-looking foreigners."

 

[APX8000]

Unfortunately, Officer discretion is not an option in U.S. Customs and Border Protection. Don't blame the "over-jealous" Officer for doing his job. Blame management for not allowing the Officer to use common sense. I have ALOT of friends in CBP and every one of them is trying to get out because they know their hands are tied. If you look at the recent GAO report, they are leaving the agency at the rate of over 50 per payperiod.

 

[LathamScan]

I have to admit that before 9/11, things were definately easier at the border. But, you have to remember that before 9/11, the different agencies involved answered to different departments. For example, the Customs Inspectors in the booth were really working for the Treasury Department, and the Border Patrol agents in the field worked for Justice Department. The people from USBP back then didn't really care about fire apparatus coming across the border, and the Customs Inspectors weren't under as much scrutiny as they probably are now.