Quebec Gov't new system CC?

[DaveH]

Looks like the new Quebec Gov't trunked system may be moving ahead.
Several months ago in TAFL I found a whack of new digital VHF channel
pairs. There is now what sounds like a control channel on 140.805; weak,
and not sure what direction it's coming from (probably east). A rooftop
antenna is required to get it from here. This frequency is one listed in TAFL
albeit not in this area.

Now that one's been heard, I'll keep watch for any others. If anyone with
a 9600-baud-system-capable scanner is able to hear this or another,
one, some data might be gathered; I'm not able to do so presently.

Dave

 

[Thunderbolt]

I remember hearing something around two years ago that Quebec was going to implement a province-wide TRS that would support all provincial and local government agencies, especially those dedicated to public safety activities. However, I had not heard about it coming online until sometime in mid-2005 at the earliest.

Since they must be deploying the first phase of the system, it will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. Moreover, since Quebec is such a large province, Motorola and the system designers will probably do this in several phases until they complete the system, much like a puzzle a piece at a time for us scanner listeners.

I wonder if anyone else is hearing any activity in other parts of the province?

73's

Ron

 

[IdleMonitor]

I thought Quebec Hydro was the first phase of the system. They've been using this for quite some time now. This might be the 2nd phase of the system. Correct me if I'm wrong on that though.

Since they must be deploying the first phase of the system, it will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. Moreover, since Quebec is such a large province, Motorola and the system designers will probably do this in several phases until they complete the system, much like a puzzle a piece at a time for us scanner listeners.

I wonder if anyone else is hearing any activity in other parts of the province?

73's

Ron

 

[mtlscan]

VHF Digital Trunking in Quebec

Hi folks,

In Phase I they are setting up a 32 site province-wide VHF system which goes by the acronym RENIR.
Phase II is expected to be a 98 site system according to their website.

Right now the only province-wide VHF digital system in production mode is the one used by the electric utility (Hydro-Quebec).
The goverment is the owner of Hydro and the new system will probably reuse some of its towers and real estate.
RENIR as of June 1 2005 still not been used officially except for testing purposes. APCO-25 encryption has been used, so i've heard.

RENIR's goal is to unify all radio users such as police, ambulance, transport ministry, natural resources, game wardens and Hydro-Québec.

In the past few years the provincial police has assumed policing duties for many small towns,
(currently using VHF Orions with Status Messages and OTAR) along with Kenwood or M-PA UHF analog cross-banded portables.
They use encrypted AEGIS on demand right now, so about 35% of the time.
It's expected they are going to be one of the primary user on the new digital trunking system and many peeps fear it's gonna be all encrypted..

So back to frequencies, you can find them on Industry Canada at the following link, which i'm not sure will work if I paste it here:

http://sd.ic.gc.ca/pls/eng_alpha/web_search.licensee_name_results?output_format=1&selected_columns=TX_FREQ,ERP_DBW,RX_FREQ,CALL_SIGN,LOCATION,LATITUDE,LONGITUDE,COMPANY_NAME,FREQ_EFF_DATE&col_in_fmt=COMMA_LIST&selected_column_group=NONE&extra_ascii=None&extra_xml=None&licensee_name=GOUVERNEMENT%20DU%20QUÉBEC%20(C.T.)%3Cbr%3EDIRECTION%20GÉNÉRALE%20DES%20TÉLÉCOM.&admin_do=53&company_cd=80241000

http://sd.ic.gc.ca/
Try a search with the following licence holder:
GOUVERNEMENT DU QUÉBEC
Industry Canada company code for the VHF trunking is 80241000
Also try callsigns czu876 (Rigaud) or czu857 (Montreal) in the proper search field will yield results.

Digital trunking can be confirmed if the following comment appears during searches: RÉSEAU ADF 138-174 MHZ

Some active freqs: 140.6555, 140.6850, 140.8050, 153.6950, 152.2850, 153.1100,

I'm surely missed a few details and I havent talked about the many UHF links, so I'll be glad to answer questions if need be. Regards.

 

[DaveH]

Re: VHF Digital Trunking in Quebec

Hi folks,

In Phase I they are setting up a 32 site province-wide VHF system which goes by the acronym RENIR.
Phase II is expected to be a 98 site system according to their website.

MTLscan,

Thanks for the additional info, it will be useful. I searched TAFL and compiled a list of the VHF pairs which appeared to be for this system (if only I can find the paper I wrote it down on..!). Since my first post I have found another control channel on 141.075. TAFL says the closest on that frequency is at Covey Hill, about 150km from me. It is weak and I cannot confirm the direction. I will check the other frequencies you have listed.

Dave

 

[IdleMonitor]

Found this just now, but can't understand it. It's in french. I tried the french to english translation websites but that didn't work.
Perhaps our friends in the Quebec region could decipher and give us the low down. Or is this pretty much what was explained.

http://www.vitrine-technologique.go...be430df50d5e0bcc85256fe90067453c?OpenDocument

I also see in the tafl a listing for GOUVERNEMENT DU QUEBEC (MSG) D.G.T.I.C. Could you explain what this is also? I see one of the frequencies that's listed under this is known as the Quebec Transportation. ie. Road crews the same as MTO.

Thanks.

 

[DaveH]

Sometimes I am able to hear a weak grinding CC noise on 140.685MHz.
Nearest TAFL listing is for over 200km away but not sure if that's where
it's coming from. The other two are definitely stronger to the east of Ottawa.

Dave

 

[VORTAC]

For the moment, 140.6850 mhz is comming from the Montreal aera, at the top of the Mont-Royal. The signal it's quite strong. The tech's are still testing the platform. The system is a 9600 bauds P-25 and the tech's talkgroup is 501.

 

[DaveH]

I am now hearing another control channel on 141.135MHz. It is fairly strong
in eastern Ontario. TAFL does not list anything close to here.

Dave

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

I am going up to Montreal in late October and I will have my BCD396T and other radios, etc. I guess I will have alot to listen to as someone found a Passport LTR system in Montreal as well.

73 Eric

 

[DaveH]

Hello,

I am going up to Montreal in late October and I will have my BCD396T and other radios, etc. I guess I will have alot to listen to as someone found a Passport LTR system in Montreal as well.

73 Eric

Hi Eric,

By the look of it, the BC396T looks like a great radio. Let us know what you think of it, maybe almost time for an upgrade here as I am falling behind w.r.t. digital including 9600 capability.

The Passport system at Rigaud frequently comes in here early mornings. It has a fast idle interval (3s) and doesn't decode on regular LTR. Two other frequencies are licensed (451.0500 and 463.6000) but they have no idle bursts.

Dave

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

So far I like the 396 even with the lettering on the front panel rubbing off. I am planning on sending the radio back after the trip. Not as bad as the problems Apple is having with the iPod Nano. I have not tried the 396 yet on a 9600 baud system. I have listened to some P25 conventional. Nice size and it has some good features. I also like Uniden releasing firmware upgrades and improvements. I got it for my trips down to Washington and other areas with 380 MHz and P25 systems.

I noticed someone submitted a Public Safety trunked system in Quebec City so it seems Quebec trunked systems outside of Montreal area are not well enumerated other than HydroQubec. Likely there are a few LTR systems in Quebec City as well. It looks like the bandscans during my vacation will result in some new information.

I am at a disadvantage because I do not know much French but fortunely the over-the-air trunking protocols are the same.

73 Eric

 

[DaveH]

Hello,

I am going up to Montreal in late October and I will have my BCD396T and other radios, etc. I guess I will have alot to listen to as someone found a Passport LTR system in Montreal as well.

73 Eric

Eric,

When in the Montreal area you may want to check the 422-425MHz band for LTR/Passport; and also 420-421 (421-422 is pretty much RCMP and CSIS...). During good propogation I've heard LTR coming from that direction, almost exclusively in french. I had some of this written on a scrap of paper which of course can't be located. One item I wrote in my notebook was: 422.4375/5375/6375/8375 all pulsing once every 4s. Because it was early morning (usually is...) not much live activity was heard.

Dave

 

[EJB]

Its to bad that not one native of the Province of Quebec can give us some input.
2 Solitudes indeed.
:-(

 

[EricCottrell]

Eric,

When in the Montreal area you may want to check the 422-425MHz band for LTR/Passport; and also 420-421 (421-422 is pretty much RCMP and CSIS...). During good propogation I've heard LTR coming from that direction, almost exclusively in french. I had some of this written on a scrap of paper which of course can't be located. One item I wrote in my notebook was: 422.4375/5375/6375/8375 all pulsing once every 4s. Because it was early morning (usually is...) not much live activity was heard.

Dave

Hello,

Thanks for the tip Dave. I am not in an area where 138 to 144 MHz and 420 to 440 MHz are used for trunked systems so it is easy to forget to scan them. I recently saw comments on a 138 to 144 MHz EDACS system down near Washington, DC. I never scanned that range when I was down there.

One feature I am working on for LTRDump is the ability to set an AOR receiver on scan or search and have the frequency logged once per second when the program decodes LTR. So while I am out and about in Montreal the AOR and computer will log stuff. I hope to support Uniden scanners as well. I found a number of one or two channel LTR systems around in my area. One two channel system seems to only have one user so unless you used LTRDump it looked like a conventional frequency without CTCSS or DCS.

In my recent trip to Burlington, VT I was able to find a 2 channel VHF High LTR-Net system over in NY by scanning the VHF band.
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=TRSDB&sid=4131
I am picking up some VHF LTR from Maine that seem to be just outside my normal radio range at home during slight lift conditions. So I suspect Quebec is loaded with LTR systems both big and small.

It will be interesting to scan for additional towers on the new P25 system as well. The P25 board for my AOR 8600 will be here thursday. No trunking support but I should be able to use it on conventional P25.

73 Eric

 

[DaveH]

Its to bad that not one native of the Province of Quebec can give us some input.
2 Solitudes indeed.
:-(

MTLSCAN and VORTAC have had some good input. I haven't checked Infoscan but imagine there is some discussion (or will be soon) going on there. RR is not a french-language board so not having a large representation is not surprising.

I was east of Ottawa along the Quebec border, and found 140.805 and 141.135 CC's were fairly strong; 141.075 was weaker but copyable. I also heard apparent P25 voice on 140.940 and 140.505(?) when in Ottawa, but don't know what it was.

Dave

 

[DaveH]

Hello,

In my recent trip to Burlington, VT I was able to find a 2 channel VHF High LTR-Net system over in NY by scanning the VHF band.
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=TRSDB&sid=4131
I am picking up some VHF LTR from Maine that seem to be just outside my normal radio range at home during slight lift conditions. So I suspect Quebec is loaded with LTR systems both big and small.

It will be interesting to scan for additional towers on the new P25 system as well. The P25 board for my AOR 8600 will be here thursday. No trunking support but I should be able to use it on conventional P25.

73 Eric

Eric,

While off the original topic, interesting to note how much VHF LTR is in northern NYS. Terry Pfeifer seems to be licensee of most of it. I can hear a bit of it from home using the highest antenna and a cavity filter. On a trip down to Kingston along the St. Lawrence there was quite a bit in the 150-154 range. I submitted a system near Gouverneur NY. Couldn't take it too much further and hoped someone closer would jump in, but no takers.

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=TRSDB&sid=3189

Also there's a UHF (451/452MHz) LTR system around Messena used by ALCOA. Due to short stopover in Cornwall, not all channels or much in the way of TG info was gathered (I may submit it anyway). It's low-powered (10W).

Regarding 1-2 channel systems, yes there seems to be more of them as the spectrum squeeze progresses. LTR is perfect for small systems due to low channel overhead. I'm chasing a few myself. What I find funny (?) is a 2-channel MPT-1327 system in NSW; what'd be the sense in that, unless there is messaging carried on the CC?

Have fun with your new ARD25...expensive accessory but considering the calibre of receiver you'll be hooking it up to..

Dave

 

[EJB]

Guys: Perhaps some of the fine peoples at Info scan will give out some info. I imagine that there are 'blokes" (slang for english peoples) and Quebecois who will be happy to assist.
As far as I know Infoscan ALLOWS english questions.
Being a native bloke quebecoise it would be cool to get info to I can rely on when and if I make the trip to my homeland.

Eric

 

[EricCottrell]

Eric,

Have fun with your new ARD25...expensive accessory but considering the calibre of receiver you'll be hooking it up to..

Dave

Hello,

Not a ARD25 but a P25-8600. They made an add-in board for the 8600 that is cheaper.
One thing I want to check out is if there is a debug serial port that can dump P25 infomation like the NAC codes.

I will look up Info Scan and see if there is anything interesting.

73 Eric

 

[DaveH]

Eric,

One item I wrote in my notebook was: 422.4375/5375/6375/8375 all pulsing once every 4s. Because it was early morning (usually is...) not much live activity was heard.

Dave

Quick update...some of this was coming in this morning. Pulse interval is actually
3s, and didn't decode on an LTR receiver, so it may well be Passport. Other
frequencies licensed: 420.0375/.0625 and 422.2375/.3375.

Dave