Question about § 97.113

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tdenfuny

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Under the regulations one finds a list of prohibited communications. On that list is the following:

"Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services."

I am wondering if there is a backstory to this rule. Why is it there? The reason I ask is that it sounds like a lot of ham radio would violate this rule. So what is the rule really getting at?
 

SCPD

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Tdenfuny- I'm going to take a stab at it.
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This comes from memory --- years ago I recall that hams wanted to re-broadcast information like NOAA weather radio stations, and similar "Public Service" transmissions. Since it wasn't broadcasting in the true sense, it- apparently- was allowed..there was no music or commercial content etc. It is my guess that this is what the FCC added to address those who were rebroadcasting weather and such- annoying to the N'th degree-- on repeaters.
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97.113 is interesting to read.... did you pick up the special carve-outs specifically intended for the ARRL station W1AW?..... the power of politics.
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Thanks for poising the question- I haven't looked at it in years and years- it was entertaining .... :)
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......................................CF
 
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SCPD

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Like I said above- I haven't given Part 97 much thought in years..... but
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There is blizzard raging outside- what better time to sit beside a wood stove and read some of this stuff- for fun, of course- mind you.... :)
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Here is a Gem I came across:
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____________________________________________________
§97.5 Station license required.

(a) The station apparatus must be under the physical control of a person named in an amateur station license grant on the ULS consolidated license database or a person authorized for alien reciprocal operation by §97.107 of this part, before the station may transmit on any amateur service frequency from any place that is:

(1) Within 50 km of the Earth's surface and at a place where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC;

(2) Within 50 km of the Earth's surface and aboard any vessel or craft that is documented or registered in the United States; or

(3) More than 50 km above the Earth's surface aboard any craft that is documented or registered in the United States.
__________________________________________________
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Seems to me that this is all quite redundant, especially 2 and 3, above. Do regulators ever re-read their handiwork? Sorry, a rhetorical question- the answer is obvious- though maybe they do:while sitting around a conference table passing the bottle and laughing.
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......................................CF
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chief21

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CF -

These days, I suspect that the FCC is populated by more lawyers than engineers, thus the preponderance of legalese. On the other hand, however, I can see a distinction between each of these location statements.

For example: (1) encompasses the US and possessions; (2) encompasses aircraft and ships at sea under US flag; and (3) more than 50 km above the earth's surface encompasses spacecraft - the Shuttle and ISS.

John
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Like I said above- I haven't given Part 97 much thought in years..... but
.
There is blizzard raging outside- what better time to sit beside a wood stove and read some of this stuff- for fun, of course- mind you.... :)
.
Here is a Gem I came across:
.
____________________________________________________
§97.5 Station license required.

(a) The station apparatus must be under the physical control of a person named in an amateur station license grant on the ULS consolidated license database or a person authorized for alien reciprocal operation by §97.107 of this part, before the station may transmit on any amateur service frequency from any place that is:

(1) Within 50 km of the Earth's surface and at a place where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC;

(2) Within 50 km of the Earth's surface and aboard any vessel or craft that is documented or registered in the United States; or

(3) More than 50 km above the Earth's surface aboard any craft that is documented or registered in the United States.
__________________________________________________
.
Seems to me that this is all quite redundant, especially 2 and 3, above. Do regulators ever re-read their handiwork? Sorry, a rhetorical question- the answer is obvious- though maybe they do:while sitting around a conference table passing the bottle and laughing.
.
......................................CF
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I am confused at (a), as a licensed US amateur operator, can I or can I not communicate with alien spacecraft under 97.107? Or must these aliens first appear, however briefly, at the ITU region 1 office?
 

teufler

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I recall several years ago, a tv wx broadcaster had a bunch of hams reporting road conditions to the station during wx broadcasts. They were also tornado spotting or bad wx spotting too. Amoung other violations, it was determined that they should be using a comm network rather than ham radio,.Here was the application of 97.113. Now if the hamns were doing that service for the benefit of hams rather than functioning as a new source, it would have been fine. Fortuneately, no hams were getting paid, though now they can be paid up to their real expenses. Back when this happened, hams could not receive funds, gifts, etc.
 

nd5y

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I always heard back in the 80's it was to discourage hams from using an autopatch to avoid paying for long distance calls. I don't know if that's true.

About 20 years or so ago they added the part allowing retransmissions of propagation, weather forecast information, and manned spacecraft transmissions from US government stations.
 

SCPD

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Quoting
RFI-EMI Guy:
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"I am confused at (a), as a licensed US amateur operator, can I or can I not communicate with alien spacecraft under 97.107? Or must these aliens first appear, however briefly, at the ITU region 1 office?"
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.............Trouble maker ! (laughing :) )
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..........CF
 

W9BU

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I am wondering if there is a backstory to this rule.
I can explain it like this. Amateur radio operators have access to large portions of the radio spectrum which might, or might not, be of value to commercial radio services, specifically broadcasters and common carriers who expect to be compensated somehow for their efforts to transmit a signal. Since amateur radio operators have access to this spectrum for free with regard to governmental fees, the operators of commercial radio services don't want amateur radio operators cutting into their business.
 
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DaveNF2G

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(2) Within 50 km of the Earth's surface and aboard any vessel or craft that is documented or registered in the United States; or

(3) More than 50 km above the Earth's surface aboard any craft that is documented or registered in the United States.
__________________________________________________
.
Seems to me that this is all quite redundant, especially 2 and 3, above. Do regulators ever re-read their handiwork? Sorry, a rhetorical question- the answer is obvious- though maybe they do:while sitting around a conference table passing the bottle and laughing.
.
......................................CF
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A vessel is one thing and a craft is another. No vessels currently operate above 50km altitude. When they do, and when amateur radio becomes possible aboard them, then the regulation will be amended to cover the new situation.

Law is nothing if not redundant.
 
D

DaveNF2G

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I am confused at (a), as a licensed US amateur operator, can I or can I not communicate with alien spacecraft under 97.107? Or must these aliens first appear, however briefly, at the ITU region 1 office?
According to the full context of Part 97, you may not communicate with an alien spacecraft unless the alien aboard holds a valid amateur radio license issued by a recognized political entity.
 
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DaveNF2G

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The routine communications rule is intended to prevent amateur radio from being used in place of commercial frequencies for daily operations of any business or other entity.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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According to the full context of Part 97, you may not communicate with an alien spacecraft unless the alien aboard holds a valid amateur radio license issued by a recognized political entity.
So they must first appear, however briefly , at the UN.
 

SCPD

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Extrapolating this Space thing a bit further, it brought up a few more questions for me... I'm sure you all are going to love them.... ( and yes, I did realize that that "50 Km's below, 50 Km's above- refers to aeronautical v.s space stations... but the wording of that regulation just called out *Sarcasm* to me...:) )
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I now ask, seriously (grinning)-- Just how far does this FCC's authority thing extends? Is it to the limits of the Solar System, or maybe, say, to limits of our Galaxy?...beyond? .... What if I am part of a private organization that colonizes the Moon, maybe Mars; who has authority over my radio usage? what about callsigns? What if we claim ourselves an independent state and start broadcasting non-stop mellow jazz to the earth on 101.5 FM (Ugh,! btw ) Does any international organization have authority over our planet?
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What if a Space Alien from the planet Zork presents his ham license to the FCC and asks for a Alien License (in the truest sense of the term!,) will his planet of origin be sufficient, or will they have to establish some diplomatic connection with the US thru his government first, sort of like CEPT? He/She is, after all, not a human- are they to be subjected to human laws?** are there exceptions? Can we talk to him on 2 metre FM without violating the 3-party clause in FCC regulations? Where are the laws to guide me, tell me: what do I Do!?
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...........I think I will loose sleep over this tonight................
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Sorry Guys, I was being-- a Cabin Bound Smart A**. The storm has finally blown itself out... time to take the dogs for a walk.... :)
Ponder my questions at your peril !........... ;)
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......................................CF
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___________________________________________________--
*this might be a moot point if these Aliens appear off our planet in the form of Darth Vader's Death Star.... "You WILL talk to us on your Earthling 2 metre radios!"
 
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tdenfuny

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Thanks for all the replies. It helped offer some ideas, even though I am still a bit confused about it.
 

TheSpaceMann

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According to the full context of Part 97, you may not communicate with an alien spacecraft unless the alien aboard holds a valid amateur radio license issued by a recognized political entity.
Exactly!! You cannot communicate with unlicensed extraterrestrials over ham frequencies. However, you would probably be allowed to communicate with aliens over CB frequencies, provided that they were closer than 150 miles from your "10-20"!! ;)
 
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