question on marine ch 16 (american)

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joehawth

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Hi,

I know marine ch 16 is for distress, but I dont understand when it is acceptable to use it for hailing.

Are you supposed to monitor 16 and say, for recreational use, is your friend supposed to hail you on 16 with instructions to move to another channel?
that is one way i've heard it is supposed to be done, but i've also heard that you should not have private communications on ch 16.

And also, one time I was monitoring ch 16 and the Coast Guard came on, during an emergency, and told all users to clear the channel,( im not sure what their words were but they implied STFU)
When they do that, can you still hail, how long are you supposed to wait before resuming normal use?

Sorry if my questions were unclear, i can rephrase if necc.

Thanks,
joe
 

HM1529

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Hi,

I know marine ch 16 is for distress, but I dont understand when it is acceptable to use it for hailing.

Are you supposed to monitor 16 and say, for recreational use, is your friend supposed to hail you on 16 with instructions to move to another channel?
that is one way i've heard it is supposed to be done, but i've also heard that you should not have private communications on ch 16.

And also, one time I was monitoring ch 16 and the Coast Guard came on, during an emergency, and told all users to clear the channel,( im not sure what their words were but they implied STFU)
When they do that, can you still hail, how long are you supposed to wait before resuming normal use?

Sorry if my questions were unclear, i can rephrase if necc.

Thanks,
joe

Around here, Sector Delaware Bay chases people over the Channel 9 on marine radio for inter-ship recreational hailing.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/boater.htm

Boater Calling Channel (VHF Channel 9)
The Federal Communications Commission established VHF-FM channel 9 as a supplementary calling channel for noncommercial vessels (recreational boaters) at the request of the Coast Guard. A ship or shore unit wishing to call a boater would do so on channel 9, and anyone (boaters included) wishing to call a commercial ship or shore activity would continue to do so on channel 16. Recreational boaters would continue to call the Coast Guard and any commercial facility on channel 16.

The purpose of the FCC regulation was to relieve congestion on VHF channel 16, the distress, safety and calling frequency. FCC regulations require boaters having VHF radios to maintain a watch on either VHF channel 9 or channel 16, whenever the radio is turned on and not communicating with another station.

Since the Coast Guard generally does not have the capability of announcing an urgent marine information broadcast or weather warning on channel 9, use of channel 9 is optional. We recommend boaters normally keep tuned to and use channel 16 in those waters unless otherwise notified by the Coast Guard.
 

kb2vxa

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"Around here, Sector Delaware Bay chases people over the Channel 9 on marine radio for inter-ship recreational hailing."

Er, not exactly. They chase radio checks to ch. 9 and "idle chatter" to a working channel, otherwise what you say is entirely correct. For what it's worth since Group Atlantic City ceased operation I believe Delaware Bay now covers Sandy Hook NJ to Block Island DE. I don't know what happened to Philadelphia being out of my normal range (don't hear them on tropo anymore either) and they never linked to New Jersey.
 

RKG

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Channel 16 is valid for "hailing" -- all hailing -- today and always has been.

At the request of the Coast Guard, the FCC authorized use of Ch. 9 for recreational hailing (i.e., it would be legal to use Ch. 9 to emit a hail and legal not to maintain a watch on Ch. 16) in some locales. The reason for this was so that CG watch standers didn't have to listen to all the recreational hailing traffic. The experiment was a dud and has since been cancelled.

Use of any channel when that channel is being employed for distress traffic is impermissible. What you probably heard the CG emit was the "silence m'aidez" ("see-lonce may-day") signal, which means that all traffic on the channel not related to the ongoing distress event should cease.
 

archduke

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Interesting question. The rules say you can hail your recreational boat buddy on channel 16 and make an immediate channel shift to an agreed recreational use channel (68, 69, 71, 72 or 78). These 5 channels 68 ...>78, are the only channels set aside for recreatonal chit chat. Just about any VHF radio built in the last 5 years will have actual notations on the channel LCD screen reminding you that the selected channel is to be used for whatever purpose...i.e. safety, distress, commercial, VTS, coast guard only, recreational use etc.

If you were to choose any other channel for recreational chit chat you might find yourself annoying a commercial tug, commercial fishing boat, marine police, commercial assistance company like Sea Tow or Boat US, a federal gov't operation, a ferry boat etc etc.

The problem arises when somebody forgets to shift off channel 16, or shifts to a channel that they are not authorised to use.

If the coast guard is actively trying to communicate with a vessel in distress then they naturally have the highest priority and can issue a demand for radio silence (pronounced See-Lonce) which as you said means STFU. Once the distress has been brought under control or shifted to another channel by the coast guard, then normal channel 16 ops may resume.

Another problem arises when on a beautiful summer weekend everybody is using channel 16 to hail their friends and the channel becomes overloaded. The Coast Guard encourages the recreational users to use channel 9 in place of channel 16, but I don't think there is any rule compelling this shift to channel 9. As good citizens most boaters who understand that channel 16 should be left as clear as possible so as not to block true emergencies will voluntarily use channel 9 instead of 16 for their initial hailing of other boaters.

In most areas of the country you will also find that the managers of responsibly run marinas, gas docks, yacht clubs, mooring field harbor masters have already voluntarily made it known that they will only monitor channel 9 (not channel 16). By doing this, they have taken a great volume of traffic off of channel 16 so that channel 16 can be used successfully for urgent hailing such as Coast Guard, Marine Police, Sea Tow, or perhaps the jerk that is heading right at you and not turning.

Requests for radio checks are also taboo on channel 16 for the obvious reasons.
 

RKG

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Requests for radio checks are also taboo on channel 16 for the obvious reasons.

Radio checks are specifically authorized on VHF Ch. 16 (the only exception being that one may not call the Coast Guard for a radio check on 2182 or 16FM). 47 C.M.R. sec. 80.101.

I am aware that, in some locations, USCG stations may respond to a CQ sigrep call on Ch. 16 with an announcement to the effect, "Channel 16 is reserved for hailing and distress only. Take your radio checks to Channel 9." There is no basis in the FCC regulations for this statement.
 

OceanaRadio

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"Radio Check" (calls to "Any Station") prohibited

Radio checks are specifically authorized on VHF Ch. 16 (the only exception being that one may not call the Coast Guard for a radio check on 2182 or 16FM). 47 C.M.R. sec. 80.101.

I am aware that, in some locations, USCG stations may respond to a CQ sigrep call on Ch. 16 with an announcement to the effect, "Channel 16 is reserved for hailing and distress only. Take your radio checks to Channel 9." There is no basis in the FCC regulations for this statement.

No, in fact "radio checks" are not authorized on Ch-16 or 2182 KHz. The cite of 80.101 misinterprets the specific test procedures authorized there, and neglects mention of the prohibition of calls to any station or any vessel which is addressed in 80.89 (unauthorized transmissions), and Subpart-S 80.931 which addresses cumpulsory-only vessels required to perform tests of radiotelephone equipment.

99.9% of the radio checks made by vessels on Ch-16 are violations of at least one FCC regulation, the majority of which are due to a failure to address a specific coast station or vessel with subsequent shifting to a working channel.

Except in cases of distress, at no time may any vessel or coast station place a call to "Any vessel" or "Any Station", thus the transmission "Radio Check" is never authorized.

I have included some relevant material from Part 80 that reinforces these comments.

Jack Painter
District Staff Officer Communications
U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary

Sec. 80.89 Unauthorized transmissions.

Stations must not:
(a) Engage in superfluous radio communication.
(b) Use telephony on 243 MHz.
(c) Use selective calling on 2182 kHz or 156.800 MHz.
(d) When using telephony, transmit signals or communications not
addressed to a particular station or stations. This provision does not
apply to the transmission of distress, alarm, urgency, or safety signals
or messages, or to test transmissions.

Subpart S_Compulsory Radiotelephone Installations for Small Passenger
Boats

Sec. 80.931 Test of radiotelephone installation.

Unless normal use of the radiotelephone installation demonstrates
that the equipment is in proper operating condition, a test
communication on a required frequency in the 1605 to 27500 kHz band or
the 156 to 162 MHz band must be made by a qualified operator each day
the vessel is navigated. If the equipment is not in proper operating
condition, the master must be promptly notified.

Sec. 80.101 Radiotelephone testing procedures.

This section is applicable to all stations using telephony except
where otherwise specified.
(a) Station licensees must not cause harmful interference. When
radiation is necessary or unavoidable, the testing procedure described
below must be followed:
(1) The operator must not interfere with transmissions in progress.
(2) The testing station's call sign, followed by the word ``test'',
must be announced on the radio-channel being used for the test.
(3) If any station responds ``wait'', the test must be suspended for
a minimum of 30 seconds, then repeat the call sign followed by the word
``test'' and listen again for a response. To continue the test, the
operator must use counts or phrases which do not conflict with normal
operating signals, and must end with the station's call sign. Test
signals must not exceed ten seconds, and must not be repeated until at
least one minute has elapsed. On the frequency 2182 kHz or 156.800 MHz,
the time between tests must be a minimum of five minutes.
(b) Testing of transmitters must be confined to single frequency
channels on working frequencies. However, 2182 kHz and 156.800 MHz may
be used to contact ship or coast stations as appropriate when signal
reports are necessary. Short tests on 4125 kHz are permitted by vessels
equipped with MF/HF radios to evaluate the compatibility of the
equipment for distress and safety purposes. U.S. Coast Guard stations
may be contacted on 2182 kHz or 156.800 MHz for test purposes only when
tests are being conducted by Commission employees, when FCC-licensed
technicians are conducting inspections on behalf of the Commission, when
qualified technicians are installing or repairing radiotelephone
equipment, or when qualified ship's personnel conduct an operational
check requested by the U.S. Coast Guard. In these cases the test must be
identified as ``FCC'' or ``technical.''
(c) Survival craft transmitter tests must not be made within
actuating range of automatic alarm receivers.
 

RKG

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No, in fact "radio checks" are not authorized on Ch-16 or 2182 KHz. The cite of 80.101 misinterprets the specific test procedures authorized there, and neglects mention of the prohibition of calls to any station or any vessel which is addressed in 80.89 (unauthorized transmissions), and Subpart-S 80.931 which addresses cumpulsory-only vessels required to perform tests of radiotelephone equipment.

99.9% of the radio checks made by vessels on Ch-16 are violations of at least one FCC regulation, the majority of which are due to a failure to address a specific coast station or vessel with subsequent shifting to a working channel.

Except in cases of distress, at no time may any vessel or coast station place a call to "Any vessel" or "Any Station", thus the transmission "Radio Check" is never authorized.

I have included some relevant material from Part 80 that reinforces these comments.

Jack Painter
District Staff Officer Communications
U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary

You seem to have overlooked the last part of the second sentence of section 80.89(d).

Section 80.931 has no application to this question whatsoever.

If your argument is that "radio checks" by an awful lot of recreational "mariners" are unnecessary and unprofessional, I wouldn't argue. If your argument is that the same radio checks can be an annoyance, possibly to the extent that they induce folks to abandon their watch on Ch. 16, I wouldn't argue. Neither argument, however, makes radio checks unlawful, as does nothing in Part 80.

The fact of the matter is that, if you have been on the waters as long as I have (i.e., going back to the days of DSB), you know that radio checks (properly done) were de rigeur and accepted by all (including USCG units) without comment. It wasn't until the advent of cheap FM sets and waters filled with totally untrained operators that radio checks have become a problem -- and, to be sure, radio checks are far less consequential a byproduct of idiot operators than their complete ignorance of the Navigation Rules -- and suddenly the USCG commo watchstanders began seeing a legal prohibition that doesn't exist.

Not to be overly picky, but your statement:

"Except in cases of distress, at no time may any vessel or coast station place a call to 'Any vessel' or 'Any Station', thus the transmission 'Radio Check' is never authorized."

is symptomatic of the overstatement to which I object. Taken literally, your statement would outlaw all "securite" and "pan-pan" broadcasts.
 
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OceanaRadio

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You seem to have overlooked the last part of the second sentence of section 80.89(d).

Section 80.931 has no application to this question whatsoever.

If your argument is that "radio checks" by an awful lot of recreational "mariners" are unnecessary and unprofessional, I wouldn't argue. If your argument is that the same radio checks can be an annoyance, possibly to the extent that they induce folks to abandon their watch on Ch. 16, I wouldn't argue. Neither argument, however, makes radio checks unlawful, as does nothing in Part 80.

The fact of the matter is that, if you have been on the waters as long as I have (i.e., going back to the days of DSB), you know that radio checks (properly done) were de rigeur and accepted by all (including USCG units) without comment. It wasn't until the advent of cheap FM sets and waters filled with totally untrained operators that radio checks have become a problem -- and, to be sure, radio checks are far less consequential a byproduct of idiot operators than their complete ignorance of the Navigation Rules -- and suddenly the USCG commo watchstanders began seeing a legal prohibition that doesn't exist.

Not to be overly picky, but your statement:

"Except in cases of distress, at no time may any vessel or coast station place a call to 'Any vessel' or 'Any Station', thus the transmission 'Radio Check' is never authorized."

is symptomatic of the overstatement to which I object. Taken literally, your statement would outlaw all "securite" and "pan-pan" broadcasts.

I did not overlook any part of 80.89, simply quoting distress as the exception and refererencing the whole text later. Particularly about making tests, you must refer to 80.931. If you don't understand that I'll be happy to discuss it further. There are other subparts that offer more detail in the testing procedures and they can involve the U.S. Coast Guard. "Boaters" taken to mean recreational and non-compulsory commercial vessels may not call the U.S. Coast Guard for tests or radio checks. And no person may announce on the airwaves "Anyone for a Radio Check" or any words to that effect, end of subject. That is not negotiable and does not interfere with making a securite or pan-pan call which as you know comes under the distress exceptions I mentioned and then included in reference text.

I too have been operating marine radios since well before the advent of VHF-FM. Radio checks in the manner I have described are in fact illegal under the very code we have discussed except when a vessel desiring a radio check calls a specific vessel or specific station (not USCG) and keeps the traffic under one minute, or shifts to a working channel. That's pretty simple, and yet just is not practiced by the masses, and may never be, I don't know. What is likely is that the planned prohibition of Ch-16 for anything except Distress, Securite and Pan-Pan will happen, and CH-9 will become the hailing channel for all non-compulsory vessels. CH-70 DSC will then be required to be operational on any vessel underway and once boaters learn how to use DSC the congestion on Ch-16 will finally go away.

The transition to all-DSC capable radios and public education classes to instruct users has been a very long and slow process. It is finally starting to get some traction and I would expect the next two or thre years to see a majority of voluntary-equipped vessels acquire at least fundamental knowledge of the concepts. Until the boaters wise-up, chasing them to CH-9 for their radio checks (where few are monitoring anyway and the USCG is not among them) leaves them making the same illegal call to any vessel, which largely go ignored. The CG Auxiliary can and does monitor Ch-9 when able, and I have for instance given hundreds of radio checks to both proper format calls as well as to those who were chased to Ch-9 by the CG. We try to give them a little instruction on how to properly use their radio and how to make proper identifications. Years of this effort seem to have little impact but we're still trying.

Jack
 

RKG

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You can say that something is a no-no and call it "non-negotiable", but that doesn't make it so.

80.101 limits the use of Ch. 16 to hailing, distress and radio tests.

80.89 generally proscribes non-addressed hails, with some exceptions, one of which is for radio tests.

80.931 describes required radios tests for mandatory vessels, which means it does not apply to 99.9% of all recreational vessels.

You confuse what you wish were prohibited -- and what quite possibly should be prohibited -- with what is prohibited under the existing regulations.
 

kb2vxa

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"Sector Delaware Bay is in Philadelphia."

Well that makes sense, they did away with both Atlantic City and Philadelphia groups, now it's all Sector Delaware Bay. That's why I don't hear Philly but still hear the sector off the Manasquan tower.
 

HM1529

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"Sector Delaware Bay is in Philadelphia."

Well that makes sense, they did away with both Atlantic City and Philadelphia groups, now it's all Sector Delaware Bay. That's why I don't hear Philly but still hear the sector off the Manasquan tower.


Here's the rundown of facilities that fall under Sector Delaware Bay:

http://www.uscg.mil/d5/sectDelawareBay/Subunits/SecUnits.asp

Air Station Atlantic City is a separate unit under the 5th District command structure:

http://www.uscg.mil/d5/units.asp
 

kb2vxa

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Thanks Ben, it's a bit more clear now except for one thing. The last time I was there I wandered off Rte. 9 south of Mistake Island (that's more accurate than Mystic) and going down a very long road through the swamps I finally came to the CG station at the end, don't know if it was Atlantic City or Great Egg but it was pretty big.

There are two airports and I'm not surprised the helos are out of ACY, every international airport is federal and chock full of government and military stuff just it's not out in the public view. For that matter every airport in the state has local, county, state and federal facilities of one sort or another. That may give some of you a clue where those radio signals are coming from.
 
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