Question on RWC Tower Transmission

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new_to_scanners

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Is Simulcast A and B always transmitted from the same tower and sent out in all directions? I'm trying to map a route to my house to figure out what is blocking the signal to where I live. I want to start at Point A from the correct tower to Point B my house and go as an eagles flies to see what is possibly blocking it in between. thanksx.
 

cellphone

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Below are links to interactive maps of the Simulcast A&B Tower sites. Clicking on each link will bring up an interactive map.

[10600 N 7TH STREET] FCC Callsign WPXE694 Details
[200 W WASHINGTON ST] FCC Callsign WPNW554 Details
[3800 E. SKY HARBOR BLVD] FCC Callsign WPWS651 Details
[4020 W. GLENROSA AVE] FCC Callsign WPWT692 Details
[701 W. CAREFREE HIGHWAY] FCC Callsign WPWY575 Details
[15040 N. TATUM BLVD] FCC Callsign WPXE706 Details
[6208 N 24TH STREET] FCC Callsign WPWR968 Details
[23060 N. 27TH AVE] FCC Callsign WPWS758 Details
[50 NORTH 51ST AVE] FCC Callsign WPWX741 Details

The 9 sites above transmit both Simulcast A & B. Please note that above only contains callsigns for Simulcast A.

There is one site missing from the list above that does not appear to be correctly licensed. The IR Site at Lake Pleasant also is a full Simulcast A site. However, this site is NOT a Simulcast B site.

I had a friend in Nebraska that put together a map of all Simulcast sites in Omaha and this was very helpful. I stole his idea, and created a map of Simulcast A sites in Phoenix.

Attached is a .jpg map of all Simulcast A site locations. I assume that all sites are omnidirectional, but I am not sure of this. The map does not include topography, but it will help determine the site that is closest. This will help for those of us who are wanting to try a directional antenna to reduce multipath issues.

Please correct me if something I state above is not correct. I am not associated with the RWC, and all information about was gathered from publicly available sources.

--Joe
 

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kd7ckq

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cellphone, that is a excellent map. Another place that had some good maps was SWFD #9. Dan did not put those maps in #10. I wish he did, I keep having to refer back to SWFD #9 to check locations.
 

new_to_scanners

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cellphone, that is amazing and way more than I had hoped for! I see that the closest site to me at Deer Valley Airport is somewhat blocked, I wonder if that is why I get such poor transmission. Interesting about the Lake Pleasant site. Thank you for your help!
 

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wlmr

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cellphone,
Lake Pleasant is it's own IR site (105). It likely carried enough traffic also carried by Simulcast A (201) to fool you into thinking it is part of A. It has it's own control channel frequencies and if you look at your scanner while it's listening to that site you see the site 105 info.

new_to_scanners,
There isn't any way to tell which tower in a simulcast site you're listening to. They all send exactly the same stuff simultaneously. Do you have a directional antenna you can try pointing at one of the tower locations?
 

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On August 20, I was at Lake Pleasant on parked under the tower by the visitor’s center. I was receiving the control channel 867.2125 (Simulcast A site 201) at full signal even when I pulled the antenna off my BC396T. At that time, I can confirm that it was transmitting site 201.

I am thinking it may have been online as Simulcast A for testing before Simulcast G was brought online. The Lake Pleasant tower is licensed as an IR site (WPXD838), as well as a Simulcast G site (WQJY471).

I have another thread where I asked confirmation on what sites are currently transmitted from this tower. I may be up that way over the weekend of December 5-6 and I will confirm the site numbers now being transmitted from this tower.

cellphone,
Lake Pleasant is it's own IR site (105). It likely carried enough traffic also carried by Simulcast A (201) to fool you into thinking it is part of A. It has it's own control channel frequencies and if you look at your scanner while it's listening to that site you see the site 105 info.
 

new_to_scanners

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what type of antenna are you using?
I have just a regular mount antenna I bought at Radio Shack. It is black and has orange 800MHz letters on it. I read it should improve reception but didn't make any difference from the stock antenna.

Thank you for letting me know that I cannot tell which tower is transmitting. :)
 

phoenixjb442

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I seem to hear Phoenix PD on White Tanks on a regular basis... The frequencies are in the 770 mhz range and are full scale at my home near 91st and Beardsley. Does anyone know if this is a full simulcast of A & B or just partial?
 

new_to_scanners

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I seem to hear Phoenix PD on White Tanks on a regular basis... The frequencies are in the 770 mhz range and are full scale at my home near 91st and Beardsley. Does anyone know if this is a full simulcast of A & B or just partial?
Yay! Someone from my neck of the woods! The White Tanks is not a full simulcast A & B, it is only broadcasting the 400/800 talk groups. That is the only clear reception I get - the ones in the 770 mhz range. But if that is all you are receiving, you are missing out on SO much. I just cannot figure out why the reception in our area is so poor. Do we have massive cell towers around here I don't know about? Although If I turn on my scanner in the middle of the night I pick up all the talk groups - but only in the back of my house. I only get the White Tanks in the front of my house.
 

wlmr

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Yay! Someone from my neck of the woods! The White Tanks is not a full simulcast A & B, it is only broadcasting the 400/800 talk groups. That is the only clear reception I get - the ones in the 770 mhz range. But if that is all you are receiving, you are missing out on SO much. I just cannot figure out why the reception in our area is so poor. Do we have massive cell towers around here I don't know about? Although If I turn on my scanner in the middle of the night I pick up all the talk groups - but only in the back of my house. I only get the White Tanks in the front of my house.
The way these trunking systems are set up seems to include the ability to exclude radio traffic from tower sites where specific groups don't need to be. White Tanks is likely only broadcasting certain talk groups for this reason. Simulcast A and B also are really obvious about this. You'll never hear stuff from A that's on B and vice versa.

Looking at where the towers are for Simulcast A and B, you seem to be outside the intended coverage area. :( Stinks if you're trying to listen to something outside the scanner's range. That's one of the reason people go to outside antennas that are directional and can be pointed at weaker signals a distance away. Do you get Simulcast G decently?
 

Astrak

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Even in the intended coverage area of simulcast systems a directional outdoor antenna will vastly improve reception of the system.
 

new_to_scanners

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Even in the intended coverage area of simulcast systems a directional outdoor antenna will vastly improve reception of the system.
I just do not have the knowledge to even begin installing a directional outdoor antenna. By chance are there businesses that can be hired to install an antenna in the northwest valley?
 

Astrak

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I just do not have the knowledge to even begin installing a directional outdoor antenna. By chance are there businesses that can be hired to install an antenna in the northwest valley?
I have no idea if there are businesses that will, it's not really that hard to do and it doesn't necessarily have to be outside. Outside is best but they will work in an attic or somewhere you can get it above the roof line of surrounding houses. Radioshack should have antenna mounting hardware, I purchased a Wilson 301111 yagi check out here Cell Phone Antennas and Cell Phone Boosters at Wilson Electronics for a dealer near you. Phoenix Scanner did a good write up on how to aim a yagi for the Phoenix area a while back, this one shows pics and has some info on his setup http://forums.radioreference.com/arizona-radio-discussion-forum/106057-phoenix-trs-yagi-solves-cut-outs.html
This one is the illustrated guide http://forums.radioreference.com/antennas-coax-forum/130892-illustrated-guide-yagi-solving-simulcast-issues.html
 

new_to_scanners

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Astrak, I just looked at the links and skimmed through them......LOL....seriously, oh my gosh, my head hurts. Phoenix Scanner must be an engineer or something because wow, I was thinking....step 1 - plug this in here, step 2......sigh. I guess I will have to resign myself to listening to Glendale only. That is so far beyond my knowledge. But thank you for the links.
 
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phoenixjb442

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I am able to receive Simulcast A using an 800Mhz rubber duck antenna from Radio Shack on my pro-197 but at times it is weak. I have also never heard anything on Simulcast G or Simulcast B.

Has anyone around the valley tried an Omni directional outdoor antenna like a Radio Shack wideband discone antenna?
 

Astrak

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Astrak, I just looked at the links and skimmed through them......LOL....seriously, oh my gosh, my head hurts. Phoenix Scanner must be an engineer or something because wow, I was thinking....step 1 - plug this in here, step 2......sigh. I guess I will have to resign myself to listening to Glendale only. That is so far beyond my knowledge. But thank you for the links.
LOL yeah you don't have to go about it that way, if you want to buy the yagi and the adapter to make it work for your scanner. Use google maps and locate the towers from the RR database then create a line from your house to the closest tower and point it that direction or move it around till something works for you, or try different antenna setups even indoors you might find something that works.
 

new_to_scanners

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astrak, i'm glad this is anonymous so no one knows how stupid i am - but a question that has been bugging me about the antenna thing........if an antenna is installed, does the scanner have to be hooked up to it somehow or does it just bring signals in closer to the scanner? i will try to figure out an antenna hook up as long as i can still take my scanner from room to room - but if it has to be fixated in one place, well then it's not worth the bother. yay or nay. :)
 
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