Question re: CLEER & FERN links/patches to Denver-Metro trunked systems

[natedawg1604]

So, I've been noticing that FERN and CLEER sometimes appear on the Denver & Aurora EDACS systems. Westy/Arvada EDACS also has a TG assigned for CLEER, and Lakewood P-25 has TG's for 3 FERN channels and CLEER. I've not yet heard any FERN or CLEER traffic on Lakewood and rarely on Westy/Arvada. Also oftentimes when I'm hearing CLEER or FERN on Denver EDACS it won't come through on Aurora EDACS, or vise versa.

Can someone explain how/where these agencies obtained the rx/tx signals for CLEER and FERN? Are they using microwave links tied to mountaintop repeaters? Are there any repeaters in or near the Denver-Metro area which broadcast FERN and/or CLEER??

Also on a related note, earlier tonight I heard Northglenn talking to Denver on CLEER (via Denver EDACS/TG 120) about dispatching EMS to a bar fight in Northglenn. Notably I was NOT able to hear CLEER on the conventional channel itself, only on Denver EDACS. Given that Northglenn is on DTRS and Denver is on EDACS, why wouldn't they use Metro Net?

 

[greenthumb]

It depends on what agency it is, but typically they just put a base station on FERN or CLEER at one of their sites, backhaul it using the same transport as the site uses, and then patch that conventional resource to a talk group using a P25 interoperability gateway (NetworkFirst) if it's on a Harris P25 system or using an EDACS causeway if it's on a Harris EDACS system.

FERN and CLEER are simplex, so nobody is repeating them other than when you're hearing them on the trunked systems, so I wouldn't consider it to be unusual that you hear it on EDACS but not on the conventional side unless you're at a location that has excellent coverage of the metro area.

As to why they use CLEER and not METRO NET, i'm fairly certain that Northglenn doesn't have wireline consoles to use METRO NET, but that doesn't stop some agencies that do (i.e. Denver, Lakewood, etc.) from using CLEER all of the time. It's redundant but nobody has taken the initiative to remove it from use or change the policy for how it's used. Chalk it up to "that's how we've always done it."

 

[natedawg1604]

It depends on what agency it is, but typically they just put a base station on FERN or CLEER at one of their sites, backhaul it using the same transport as the site uses, and then patch that conventional resource to a talk group using a P25 interoperability gateway (NetworkFirst) if it's on a Harris P25 system or using an EDACS causeway if it's on a Harris EDACS system.

FERN and CLEER are simplex, so nobody is repeating them other than when you're hearing them on the trunked systems, so I wouldn't consider it to be unusual that you hear it on EDACS but not on the conventional side unless you're at a location that has excellent coverage of the metro area.

As to why they use CLEER and not METRO NET, i'm fairly certain that Northglenn doesn't have wireline consoles to use METRO NET, but that doesn't stop some agencies that do (i.e. Denver, Lakewood, etc.) from using CLEER all of the time. It's redundant but nobody has taken the initiative to remove it from use or change the policy for how it's used. Chalk it up to "that's how we've always done it."

What do you mean by "base station", and how is that different than a repeater? I thought "simplex" meant no repeater? Also, can you elaborate on the types of systems/configurations that are customarily used by multiple agencies to communicate on CLEER or FERN??

 

[greenthumb]

By "base station" I mean a fixed radio - base stations (as I have understood them) don't repeat and either receive on one frequency (mobiles) and transmit on another (dispatch/base) or transmit and receive on the same frequency. I've even seen the 'repeaters' used in Motorola trunked systems referred to as base stations since they aren't doing the repeating in-cabinet and allowing the receiver voting subsystem to take care of the transmit audio distribution. Anyway...

CLEER or FERN generally is the oldest, highest power base station that an agency owns and is usually an old piece of junk Often times they were old MASTR IIs or Micors, but a lot of that has gone by the wayside with narrow banding. After narrow banding, there is a lot of newer stuff out there now, and i'm sure they're generally still 100 watt stations with antennas a decent height up on a tower. Nothing really fancy about any of it!

 

[rfburns]

CLEER BOD

Who is on the CLEER board of directors these days? It was always Metro PD Chiefs. Only ones I can remember were Cherry Hills Village and Commerce City. Possibly Denver and Englewood, but Englewood started MICS and I can't remember the Englewood politics at that time. It was a board with odd ideas most of the time.