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Questions about 700 MHz radio systems

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W7FDX

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Meanwhile there are counties like mine where we are still on 46mhz and have next to no portable coverage and mobile coverage is spotty in some parts of the county. We would be perfectly happy going to a vhf conventional analog system but we don't have the funds to do that let alone a DTRS.
 

rapidcharger

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Meanwhile there are counties like mine where we are still on 46mhz and have next to no portable coverage and mobile coverage is spotty in some parts of the county. We would be perfectly happy going to a vhf conventional analog system but we don't have the funds to do that let alone a DTRS.


You didn't mention the name of the county but If it's the county that your ham license returns to and incidentally has 46 mHz fire dispatch and police on 150 in analog SIMPLEX... I just did a brief comparison of the balance sheets of your county, the one next door to me (which has 22,000 fewer people and a $4 mil DTRS), Linn's county (which has 55,000 more people and a $3.6mil DTRS). It doesn't look like you're in bad shape. Has anyone brought the inadequacies of your current system to the attention of the commissioners?
 

R8000

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You called me out as "giving bad information". I have asked repeatedly to tell me what I said that was incorrect and so far you haven't been able to provide an answer to that question. 10 Days later... still now answer.

That's correct. Your picking and choosing your questions to answer, so am I.

Here's a suggestion, if all you have are personal attacks and don't wish to contribute to the conversation except to tell people they're a stupidhead, then please remember that submitting a reply on the forum is strictly optional.

This works both ways. You admitted that finance and funding is your interest, and most technical discussions on this website don't turn towards finance until you interject with your anti-government rants and "race to waste". I think I speak for most here, it gets old. Looks like I am now not the only one in this discussion who thinks this way.

I'm not the only one commenting on the corruption and incompetence in these buying decisions. The forum is full of us. and you have a problem with that because you work in an industry that is supported by corruption and poor decisions. I get it. Believe me. We ALL get it.

I personally don't have a problem with someone having a opinion, but when one skims over discussions and it's the same thing over....and over....and over....again "race to waste", it gets old.

As for politics and religion... this forum's got a room for both of those too.

We aren't in that room.


You also brought up that this site is for scanner enthusiasts. Yep. It sure is. And these race to waste systems are killing our hobby. It sounds like you are playing a role in that but since you haven't told us what specifically, that role is, all I can do is guess.

And... spewing anti-government propaganda helps in some way ? Um..no. It makes me want to quote encrypted systems a bit more now.

Then can you recommend a site that is more suitable?

Google can find that for you.

Yes, and I am well aware of this. And this makes me question whether you have ever actually read any of my posts.

I try not to read your posts because they all contain the same thing...over....and over....and over.
 

W7FDX

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You didn't mention the name of the county but If it's the county that your ham license returns to and incidentally has 46 mHz fire dispatch and police on 150 in analog SIMPLEX... I just did a brief comparison of the balance sheets of your county, the one next door to me (which has 22,000 fewer people and a $4 mil DTRS), Linn's county (which has 55,000 more people and a $3.6mil DTRS). It doesn't look like you're in bad shape. Has anyone brought the inadequacies of your current system to the attention of the commissioners?
It is Montour County sorry I forgot to mention that. They have been addressed on multiple occasions and there is talk of us merging dispatch with columbia county and that would greatly improve our coverage providing we can put in a few more tower sites. Mobile coverage is adequate it just falls short in portable coverage on the fire side.
 

rapidcharger

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it gets old.)))

From the sounds of things, you might be one of the many beneficiaries of wasteful and unnecessary communications projects and therefore have taken my comments personally. It wasn't my aim to target you personally. It's just business.

Thank You for finally clarifying that you aren't actually disputing the accuracy of anything I've said on here and now that I have made my qualifications known, I hope that settles that.

(((I try not to read your posts because they all contain the same thing...over....and over....and over.

If you're trying to not-read my posts and are having trouble with that, you're in luck! There is a way that you can prevent all of my threads from being visible to you and it's very easy to set up. There are instructions below to help you with that.

Can I block posts, emails and messages from specific users?

If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:

Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.
Note that rapidcharger is all one word. No spaces.
(((It makes me want to quote encrypted systems a bit more now. )))

Ok so that pretty much confirms it. It would suggest you are in sales of race-to-waste systems and you're on a mission to destroy the hobby that so many of us enjoy. I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's more people that agree with my posts on this site than there are that agree with yours being that this site is for radio and scanner buffs. And like I said before, there's also a lot of small local radio shop guys on here who are losing contracts.
But that's certainly an explanation for your bias.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It is Montour County sorry I forgot to mention that. They have been addressed on multiple occasions and there is talk of us merging dispatch with columbia county and that would greatly improve our coverage providing we can put in a few more tower sites. Mobile coverage is adequate it just falls short in portable coverage on the fire side.

That's not the county I looked up. I was looking at the county next to it. That county hasn't made it's financials available online but regardless it sounds like you are making do with what you have and I applaud you for that. I think you should have the tools you need to do your job safely but there's obviously a lot of acceptable options for that in between what you've got and having your own multi-million dollar DTRS. Merging and consolidating resources is something I have long thought was a good solution.
 
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R8000

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Thank You for finally clarifying that you aren't actually disputing the accuracy of anything I've said on here and now that I have made my qualifications known, I hope that settles that.

You pretty much did this in the Roswell discussion in your comparison of a multi million dollar communications system vs your ham radio antenna on your roof from 20 miles away.
 

rapidcharger

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You pretty much did this in the Roswell discussion in your comparison of a multi million dollar communications system vs your ham radio antenna on your roof from 20 miles away.

I compare those race-to-waste systems to single site ham repeaters all the time and I neglected to mention that additional experience earlier in this thread. I am a licensed ham who actually uses uses the radio service on a daily basis and I have been learning about and using radios and radio systems for the past 22 years. And your qualifications are what again? Other than being a self-professed salesman who wants to kill our hobby with encryption and modes that scanners can't listen to even if it's not encrypted?

The antennas aren't on my roof, they're in my attic and it's a great demonstration of what can be done with a single site on lower bands which is relevant to this thread. And it's not a low site either. My house is on a hill 200-400' HAAT and thus I was not arguing for or against the tower. Apparently reading comprehension is not among your qualifications.
 

R8000

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I compare those race-to-waste systems to single site ham repeaters all the time and I neglected to mention that additional experience earlier in this thread. I am a licensed ham who actually uses uses the radio service on a daily basis and I have been learning about and using radios and radio systems for the past 22 years. And your qualifications are what again? Other than being a self-professed salesman who wants to kill our hobby with encryption and modes that scanners can't listen to even if it's not encrypted?

And there we go...more "race to waste". What's next, tin foil hats ? If you hate government so much, then don't get involved in communications or discussions that involve government. Simple.

You know, I have been using radios everyday as well for 20+ years... Imagine that. Oh, and I get paycheck because my two hands actually touch dispatch consoles, voters, repeaters, filters/combiners, 960,4.9,6 and 10 GHZ microwave networks, simulcast systems, P25 equipment, trunking systems, VOIP, TRBO networks, Local/State/Fed Gov systems, T1 networks, railroad networks...I will just stop there.

You said earlier that you like to push a pen and make numbers work, that's fine. I make public safety radio systems work. I wear the blue colored work pants and shirt, steel toed boots, I drive the cargo service van with shelves full of test gear. I wear a pager for my public safety customers to call 24 hours a day in case of an outage. I assist engineering daily on system design, problem solving and custom built solutions. Based on that, yes I am qualified to provide technical comments concerning public safety communications systems.

Do you do any of these tasks or work hands on with the above equipment ?

I know you wont answer, and just beat around the bush and spew me "race to waste" anti government comments.

I can tell you through hands on experience that comparing a multi million dollar simulcast public safety radio system to a ham repeater is just utterly absurd. That's like comparing the hauling capability of your Prius to a dump truck. Based on your comparison alone, tells me you have never dealt hands on with the public safety world and making their radios talk.

You sir, are no where near qualified to criticize any technical aspect of public safety communication. You just know who to make noise with a keyboard and shout money. If math and spending is your expertise, that's fine. This isn't the place to do it. Oh and drop the ham radio argument, I been licensed for 20+ years as well. So that argument is now null and void.

Out of the multiple counties I maintain in my quarter of the state, none are full time encrypted. Only 4 have the ability to switch to coded when need be. This is called educating the end user before the system is even purchased. We educate them on using code properly and only at times when needed. So yea, you can drop the "you're killing scanners" comment as well.

Now what ?
 

rapidcharger

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And there we go...more "race to waste". What's next, tin foil hats ? If you hate government so much, then don't get involved in communications or discussions that involve government. Simple.)))

I don't hate government. You're putting words in my mouth and making personal attacks because you don't like what I have to say.

(((You said earlier that you like to push a pen and make numbers work, that's fine.)))

Further evidence you don't read a thing I write.

((( I make public safety radio systems work.)))

Scary thought considering you obviously can't read and can't do 3rd grade math.

(((
Do you do any of these tasks or work hands on with the above equipment ? )))

Some of them. I didn't get into my complete work history.
((( I know you wont answer, and just beat around the bush and spew me "race to waste" anti government comments.)))
Face it. You're killing our hobby.
You want me to shut up.
You don't like that what I say is true.
You don't like that your employment more than likely only exists because of waste, fraud, incompetence, corruption and poor decisions and you surely don't like when people point it out. Now would be a good time for you to not reply to me anymore because I'm not going to shut up. You don't like what I have to say, add me to your ignore list. But your personal attacks just make you look like a child.

(((You sir, are no where near qualified to criticize any technical aspect of public safety communication. )))

Sort of like the bad information, I'm still waiting for you to tell me I gave, after 14 days, this is all a figment of your imagination. Quit being a cyber bully. Go take your frustrations out on a punching bag.

(((You just know who to make noise with a keyboard and shout money. If math and spending is your expertise, that's fine. This isn't the place to do it. Oh and drop the ham radio argument, I been licensed for 20+ years as well. So that argument is now null and void. )))

I gave you clear instructions on adding me to your ignore list.
 

R8000

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I don't hate government. You're putting words in my mouth and making personal attacks because you don't like what I have to say.

This is what you typed in the Isle of Man discussion :

"Well that depends on the county and how corrupt they are. See, in America, money influences the politicians who buy the radio systems. When you buy the politician, the politician buys your radio system.

But that said, the proposed Isle of Man system would ring in at approximately $90 USD per capita whereas over here, the average is $72 USD per capita. While it may seem strange to calculate it per capita, it's almost uncanny how the majority of them seem to be priced at that same level so I keep doing it. So I hate to say it, but that proposed system is a great deal more expensive than the average race-to-waste digital trunking system in the US. I would suggest that if you are local that you bring this up to your local elected representatives and ask them why they feel it is necessary considering it's a very small island, mostly uninhabited and the small populated area has quite a small population. A $3,000 USD repeater system would probably be more than adequate."

The first sentence you typed...corrupt government propaganda. Hrmmm.

Oh look , more "per capita" and "race to waste" financial info that scanner hobbyists don't really care about. This adds NO value to the discussion, only to railroad it off topic.

According to the "expert advice" you gave here, a entire nationwide law enforcement radio system could be a $3,000 repeater. ..wow. Just wow. I bet that will provide awesome indoor coverage and be reliable with back up systems...right ?

If you were a true "expert" in public safety communications, you'd understand the requirements that need to be met are quite different than what happens in ham radio. And also understand that reliable equipment is much more expensive than a $3,000 ham repeater.

Most users here have never experienced what happens behind the scenes to make systems work. And that's fine. They just want to be able to program a scanner and listen to the calls.

Not being a jerk here but why not ask the site admins to create a discussion room for radio system financial talk ? That's the main point of my gripe is that you always seem to railroad discussions towards financial points and corruption. Why not create a financial discussion forum then you can go at it all you want. That would leave use who like the technical side of things free to discuss technical things. Everyone is happy then.

You can take whatever I type here however you want. You can take it as a insult, take it as a helpful suggestion, or take it and think a bit. That's up to you. My point is that most of us here are not interested in the corruption and financial thread jacking you seem to always do. Maybe you will think about it and realize you should back off a bit, or...just type something nasty. Up to you.

I put my credentials out on the table, and justified my conversation points. I also made my point clear as to why I have a problem in what you added to the discussion. You chose to twist things all around so you can massage your radio god ego. Whatever floats your boat. If you get happiness in life doing that...that's up to you. Good luck with that.

We are done here. I am no longer going to drive the discussion off topic, but I am pretty sure you will just go on and on....and on. I'd prefer to not get the banhammer from RR.


To the OP :
My apologies for sidetracking your original discussion. Just be careful whom you seek advice from. If in doubt, look for a trusted local communications vendor who has experience in building and maintaining systems. You can simply ask around to other counties/cities and see who they all use and you will soon learn who is reputable and who isn't.
 

rapidcharger

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This is what you typed in the Isle of Man discussion :)))

Why not reply to that instead of derail this thread completely? If you're trying to get this thread locked, you're going to get what you're asking for. And I don't think that's fair to the OP. If you want to talk about the Isle of Man, you'll have to go back to that thread. I won't discuss it here.

(((This adds NO value to the discussion, only to railroad it off topic.)))
Sorry you feel that way but personal attacks against ME have nothing to do with THIS thread either. Why don't you practice what you preach?

(((According to the "expert advice" you gave here,)))
I don't give expert advice. Only opinions.
You seem to have the wrong idea about why I'm here.


((( a entire nationwide law enforcement radio system could be a $3,000 repeater. ..wow. Just wow. I bet that will provide awesome indoor coverage and be reliable with back up systems...right ? )))

A lot of times that is more than adequate. I know you don't like to read but if you did, you'd see a lot of these towns are the size of a wart on a frogs backside. A DTRS isn't needed and a repeater is more than adequate. And as I have pointed out time and time again, they should ask what their options are and consider what other cities are using. If it took them this long to get off of lowband simplex and pageboy IIs, what's going to happen when they have to upgrade to something else several years later?

(((If you were a true "expert" in public safety communications, )))

I am not nor have I ever claimed to be an expert in public safety communications but today's your lucky day...
If you can find where I said that I was, I will wire you $1,000,000.00 TODAY. The offer ends at 4pm eastern time today. (I have to get to the bank before they close) You have until then to find where I said I was an expert in public safety communications. Void where prohibited. The offer is valid only for one person, R8000.


((( And also understand that reliable equipment is much more expensive than a $3,000 ham repeater. )))
That's not the point I was making. You haven't read what I wrote or you stopped reading after the first half of a sentence.

(((Not being a jerk here)))
Yes you are. And you're being a troll and derailing threads with off topic discussion and personal attacks

((why not ask the site admins to create a discussion room for radio system financial talk ? That's the main point of my gripe is that you always seem to railroad discussions towards financial points and corruption.)))

Why don't you do it then? You're the only one who seems to be bothered by it.
And for the 5th time, if you don't like what I have to say, add me to your ignore list. That will solve the problem. It's common sense solutions to everyday problems that are my specialty. I am expert in fixing problems. You should take that expert advice.

(((I put my credentials out on the table,)))

No you haven't. All you have done was make it clear why you are biased and why you want me to shut up.

((( You chose to twist things all around so you can massage your radio god ego. )))

More insults.
You're a real class act.


(((To the OP :
look for a trusted local communications vendor who has experience in building and maintaining systems.

Finally something we agree on. Except don't call just one. Contact several. Contact them all.
 
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rapidcharger

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Well.... r8000 I'm just checking in to see if I needed to go to the bank. I've given you until 4pm plus a 15 minute grace period to answer my question and I would have made you a millionaire.

If someone offered me a million bucks to simply find a single thread where they posted something, I would block off the entire afternoon and gather a team of people if necessary to find it. The only reason I can think of not to do that would be if I was lying about something that was never actually posted.

And I know you saw the offer I posted because I can see when you last logged in. It's all right on your profile page. You must have been telling a lie then. That's the only reason I can think of to pass up one million dollars for simply using the forum's search box feature.
 

hitechRadio

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I see Slowcharger is here.

You will never convince him otherwise. Everything boils down to his favorite saying "Race to Waste".

There are many reason's to DTRS. And reasons for what band to use.

I would explain, but why. When it both sides pro's and con's have been covered in depth, here and all over the web.

I thought , this may be an interesting post "Questions about 700 MHz radio systems" I could answer a few question's for the OP.
But then I see slowcharger posting, and I knew the thread was ruined. I don't think the OP has posted anything since post #10
 

rapidcharger

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My county will be going to a 700 MHz radio system in the near future. We operate on vhf hi-band at the moment and the powers that be are convinced that vhf is obsolete.
Is 700 MHz a reliable system?
And what is the cost of the equipment?

Thanks

If you want to see a prime example of incompetence at the helm of DTRS procurement, here you go.
BOC to listen to proposal to make upgrades to public safety radio system

Not one but two times they hired a consultant and now expecting a different result. Their trunking system is going to be 2 years old and they're already going to have to spend millions more to fix it. All because they thought they had to do that to narrowband. That's what the consultants told them.



I see Slowcharger is here.
There are many reason's to DTRS. And reasons for what band to use.

I would explain, but why.

I thought , this may be an interesting post "Questions about 700 MHz radio systems" I could answer a few question's for the OP.

But then I see slowcharger posting

Well you could reply to the OP and participate in the discussion like I did or you can spread lies and hurl insults like R8000 did. Or, here's another idea... because submitting a reply to the forum is strictly optional, you could simply refrain from doing so. If you've got nothing to contribute, you're just wasting your time and cluttering up the thread.

Lets take a quick look at something.


You don't make 8 friends in 2 years by calling people names and insults. You make friends by helping people and posting stuff people like.

CUiW4D.jpg


And I got the best endorsement one could ask for... From ZZ0468 themselves...
No, your job is to squawk about it... a job you're exceptionally good at, I must say. Keep up the good work. Even from my perspective, your squawking does serve a necessary purpose, even when it gets tiresome and repetitious. Society needs constant checks and balances. You're doing your part.

It's good to know that some people find my participation useful and "necessary".
 

lep

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rapidcharger;2284184 It's good to know that some people find my participation useful and "necessary".[/QUOTE said:
However, I am not one of them. I find it tiresome since you sing a one-note song.
 

zz0468

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Lets take a quick look at something...

You don't make 8 friends in 2 years by calling people names and insults. You make friends by helping people and posting stuff people like.

That pretty much takes the prize for the most immature post of 2014. :roll:
 

hitechRadio

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Notice how Slowcharger removes parts and pieces of what a person posts when he quotes.

He loves quoting people, LOL and adjusting to fit to make his point. Breaking down each and every sentence into a quote, which is fine. But it gets annoying, page after page of quote after quote.


About rapidcharger
Biography
Crusader against waste, fraud and abuse.
Location
The land of broken calculators.
Interests
Exposing corruption, ham radio, tennis, etc.
Occupation
I'm just a guy with a calculator.
Signature
--> Why encryption is necessary <--
---> Why politicians are buying the radio systems <--
--> Why secure, clear, digital interoperable communications is so vital <--



Will someone be my friend, I feel like I don't help people.
 
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12dbsinad

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Notice how Slowcharger removes parts and pieces of what a person posts when he quotes.

He loves quoting people, LOL and adjusting to fit to make his point. Breaking down each and every sentence into a quote, which is fine. But it gets annoying, page after page of quote after quote.


About rapidcharger
Biography
Crusader against waste, fraud and abuse.
Location
The land of broken calculators.
Interests
Exposing corruption, ham radio, tennis, etc.
Occupation
I'm just a guy with a calculator.
Signature
--> Why encryption is necessary <--
---> Why politicians are buying the radio systems <--
--> Why secure, clear, digital interoperable communications is so vital <--



Will someone be my friend, I feel like I don't help people.

Quoting doesn't bother me. Actually I think it helps a lot rather than just a long drawn out post addressing a previous post. Also, no need to call out rapidcharger on this, this thread has been full of quoting from everyone so I don't see a single source. If I wasn't lazy, I'd quote more myself.
 
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