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Radio implementation for a new company

CG23

Newbie
Joined
Jan 11, 2023
Messages
4
Hello, I hope to get help on here for a few specific questions. Please excuse my ignorance on some items as I am still educating myself when I can on Radio knowledge. I am the safety manager for a relatively new company which is a peanut sheller in a rural community (we have been in business for about 1.5 years and I have been here for right at 1 year). As part of the tasks given to me, I need to establish a functioning radio communication network and do it as inexpensively as possible. At the previous place I worked we had Motorola CP-200 radios but mainly they worked inside the building and were not used for a large distance.
Background:
I have established a few things so for:
  • FCC license for 5 frequencies in the UHF frequencies 400-470 MHz
  • Purchased and programed (18) 5 watt FPCN30A Samcom radios
  • Purchased (6) 10 watt H-6 Tidradio (have not programed yet as they just arrived)
  • I also have 3 other radios: (2) Baofeng UV-5R and (1) Baofeng BF-F8HP (I used these as test radios to determine what to get)
Facility and Layout:
The structure of our facility is made of metal and sits on about 60 acres on a relatively flat, but sloping plain. The warehouse feeding the plant has an underground tunnel surrounded by several feet of concrete. We also have some very tall grain(peanut) elevators. I recognize that the area covered should possibly have a repeater.

Problem:
The 5 watt radios cover most of the area from the front offices to the plant with out too much issue, however, once you get past the plant the radio signal drops to heavy static or nothing at all. The tunnel gets no radio reception at all.

I got a quote on a repeater and it was WAY MORE than my company is able/willing to put out at this time. So I have been tasked with getting done a difficult, but I don't think impossible, task. I have come across a device that I believe will work well enough as a repeater for our "little" area. (here is a link to it on amazon-2 way repeater box). It consists of using 2 mobile radios linked by a box. We don't need a repeater that works for miles just enough to get a signal from the furthest corners of our property. So here is where I start asking the questions:
  1. When setting up a repeater, do the Tx and Rx frequencies both have to be from the FCC or is one frequency issued and then the user does an offset?
  2. In addition to the device above, I would like to use external antennas to Rx and Tx. Can I link 2 receiving antennas with a splitter going back to the Rx radio? Likewise, can I link 2 transmitting antennas with a splitter? See 2 options below. Which is more feasible? I need to try to cover the tunnel and the yard area with the same repeater.
  3. DIAGRAM: antenna wire layout.PNG
  4. Does a duplexer have to be programed for the frequencies we have or can I program it myself if I need to order one? any suggestions on the best one to order?
  5. I want to mount the antenna to the highest point which will be about 75'-100' off the ground What type of antenna should I get, vertical or Yagi? Something else?
  6. I am looking at running about 100' of cable maybe more. What type of cable should I run from the radio to the antenna? RG-58, RG-6, RG-8x?
Keep in mind I'm not looking at this as a long-term solution; I just need this to get by for now so that we can have communication for an emergency. Any help or ideas this community can contribute will be greatly appreciated!

Here is a picture from the location where the antenna(s) will go.
IMG_5609.PNG
 

MTS2000des

5B2_BEE00 Czar
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
5,374
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
Many things come to mind, first is that this is primarily a hobbyist site and while many of us are in the LMR business for a living, it's generally best to have a local shop who have qualified personnel on staff like systems engineers and CETs make recommendations based on an actual site visit using tools to do site surveys, properly coordinate frequencies, check the noise floor at your site, and design a system using quality components (read: not Chinese junk from Amazon).

It is going to cost money. The radios available from China are generally feces pieces, have limited performance for PROFESSIONAL use, and may or may not be FCC certified for legitimate part 90 use. Since you actually went the proper route and got part 90 licensing (good move), you mine as well continue and obtain quality subscriber and infrastructure from a reputable supported locally manufacturer like JVC Kenwood, Motorola, Icom, etc.

Repeaters require expertise beyond the scope of a hobbyist forum for proper operation in a professional setting, which you indicated this was for "emergency use". I STRONGLY recommend getting a local radio shop involved. Yes, this costs money. Do it right the first time. If people's lives and property depend on your communications, cutting corners will only cost you down the road.
 

prima19rider

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
53
If not done correctly as Safety Manager you and the company are taking on a huge amount of liability. I was a Security Manager for a fortune 500 company and although I came under fire when I spent a large amount by contracting with a Motarola dealer. But, when we needed it the Company was able to avoid liability in a $4 million wrongful injury law suit. The radio system cost less than the lawyers fees.
 

MTS2000des

5B2_BEE00 Czar
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
5,374
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
Deal with OSHA or NIOSH sometime if you really want cheek-clenching moments. Being cheap and buying non-certified equipment, dubious imported junk from Amazon, then seeking "professional guidance" from a hobbyist forum aren't the right way. It's all good, until it isn't.
I can't stress enough that for PROFESSIONAL LIFE SAFETY applications, PROFESSIONALS need to be utilized and not shade tree mechanic "teknishun" cobbling stuff together.
 

RaleighGuy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
13,742
Location
Raleigh, NC
Hello, I hope to get help on here for a few specific questions. Please excuse my ignorance on some items as I am still educating myself when I can on Radio knowledge. I am the safety manager for a relatively new company

As safety manager you should want a radio system to accomplish a safe operating environment, hence if you are educating yourself contact a professional radio company. As others here have said, you are looking at more problems than solutions, especially adding CCR radios like a Baofeng in the mix.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
24,250
Location
I am a lineman for the county.
Hello, I hope to get help on here for a few specific questions. Please excuse my ignorance on some items as I am still educating myself when I can on Radio knowledge. I am the safety manager for a relatively new company which is a peanut sheller in a rural community (we have been in business for about 1.5 years and I have been here for right at 1 year). As part of the tasks given to me, I need to establish a functioning radio communication network and do it as inexpensively as possible. At the previous place I worked we had Motorola CP-200 radios but mainly they worked inside the building and were not used for a large distance.

First thing that pops into my mind is the possibility of dust from the processing. Do you need intrinsically safe radios? Using the wrong type of equipment in that environment can be very dangerous. I'd suggest finding a professional consultant. You don't want to be the guy who's responsible for someone getting killed.

When someone with little to no experience wants to do a radio system as "inexpensively as possible", it's always a red flag.
Radio systems need to be designed by professionals, especially when life safety is involved. This isn't something you do on the internet by buying cheap equipment off e-Bay/Amazon. That's a disaster in the making. You cannot put this together by buying parts. You need training, knowledge, experience and some very expensive test equipment to make everything work correctly and meet FCC requirements.

You'll save a lot of money by brining in a professional.

Background:
I have established a few things so for:
  • FCC license for 5 frequencies in the UHF frequencies 400-470 MHz
  • Purchased and programed (18) 5 watt FPCN30A Samcom radios
  • Purchased (6) 10 watt H-6 Tidradio (have not programed yet as they just arrived)
  • I also have 3 other radios: (2) Baofeng UV-5R and (1) Baofeng BF-F8HP (I used these as test radios to determine what to get)

Do you have the FCC license in hand?

FPCN30A Samcom - The specs on these radios is very poor. While they meet FCC requirements, the poor specs is going to create issues. Life safety should not depend on Cheap Chinese Radios.

H-6 Tidradio - These radios do not have FCC Part 90 type acceptance and cannot be legally used to transmit anywhere other than amateur radio bands.

Baofeng UV-5R - These are the poster child for "Cheap Chinese Radios".

Baofeng BF-F8HP - These radios do not have FCC Part 90 type acceptance and cannot be legally used to transmit anywhere other than amateur radio bands.


Facility and Layout:
The structure of our facility is made of metal and sits on about 60 acres on a relatively flat, but sloping plain. The warehouse feeding the plant has an underground tunnel surrounded by several feet of concrete. We also have some very tall grain(peanut) elevators. I recognize that the area covered should possibly have a repeater.

Problem:
The 5 watt radios cover most of the area from the front offices to the plant with out too much issue, however, once you get past the plant the radio signal drops to heavy static or nothing at all. The tunnel gets no radio reception at all.

Not surprising.
Not trying to bust your chops here, but we need to point out that you are using very, very low tier radios that are known to have very poor specifications. That's working against you.
There's the real possibility that interference from the machinery may be causing issues.
Trying to cover an underground tunnel takes some very specific designs, and it's not something that will be easy or cheap to do.


I got a quote on a repeater and it was WAY MORE than my company is able/willing to put out at this time. So I have been tasked with getting done a difficult, but I don't think impossible, task. I have come across a device that I believe will work well enough as a repeater for our "little" area. (here is a link to it on amazon-2 way repeater box). It consists of using 2 mobile radios linked by a box. We don't need a repeater that works for miles just enough to get a signal from the furthest corners of our property.

That repeater interface is going to be a hot mess:
-It does not supply what you need to meet FCC requirements. It needs to ID with your call sign. It needs to have settings that shut it down in a malfunction.
Putting two hand held radios side by side with that little box is going to result in desensitization of the receiver, and will more than likely lock up the system and make it totally useless. Wrong tool for the job.

So here is where I start asking the questions:
  1. When setting up a repeater, do the Tx and Rx frequencies both have to be from the FCC or is one frequency issued and then the user does an offset?

The FCC license needs to specifically list authorization for a repeater. You need to work with a frequency coordinator to find the proper frequencies to use. The FCC will license you for the repeater. You cannot just pick frequencies or offsets that are not licensed.

In addition to the device above, I would like to use external antennas to Rx and Tx. Can I link 2 receiving antennas with a splitter going back to the Rx radio? Likewise, can I link 2 transmitting antennas with a splitter? See 2 options below. Which is more feasible? I need to try to cover the tunnel and the yard area with the same repeater.

No. You need tuned duplexers to do what you want on the transmit side. On the receive side, it can work, but you need filtering and something to offset the losses from the splitter. This is where a trained professional can design an actual functional repeater system that will work. Building a repeater with junk of Amazon is going to lead to major disappointment and lost money. You'll spend a ton of money and labor trying to make this work the way you want. In the end, it's not going to work and you'll still end up paying a professional.

Does a duplexer have to be programed for the frequencies we have or can I program it myself if I need to order one? any suggestions on the best one to order?

Duplexers need to be tuned, and they need to be tuned on site. Having them tuned and then shipped results in them vibrating off the tuning and not working correctly. It needs to be done on site by someone with a service monitor ($40,000 piece of test equipment).

The correct duplexer to order is one that is specifically designed around your needs, loss budget, frequencies, power level, and installation location. Good ones start at $2,500. Cheap Chinese ones off Amazon still need to be tuned on site, and will have poor performance, especially if your repeater pairs are closely spaced. This is one place you do not want to cut corners.

I want to mount the antenna to the highest point which will be about 75'-100' off the ground What type of antenna should I get, vertical or Yagi? Something else?

It depends on what your coverage needs are. There is no "one" antenna that works in every application. This is another place where a trained/experience professional can choose the right antenna for the job.
The antenna gain/pattern will need to be based off what your FCC license allows. That's something that needs to involve the frequency coordinator and whoever designs this system for you. You cannot just grab an antenna and install whatever you want.

I am looking at running about 100' of cable maybe more. What type of cable should I run from the radio to the antenna? RG-58, RG-6, RG-8x?

For 100 feet, on UHF frequencies, for a repeater, with low power, you need to be running something like 1/2 inch Heliax or better.

Keep in mind I'm not looking at this as a long-term solution; I just need this to get by for now so that we can have communication for an emergency. Any help or ideas this community can contribute will be greatly appreciated!

Doesn't matter if it's long term or short term, for emergency or not, it needs to be done to FCC rules.

I can really, honestly, appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to save your employer money.

But, you're not the first guy to show up here with a plan like this.
Many of us do this stuff professionally.

Please take this with an open mind and as advice from those of us that do this for a living:
You are in WAY over your head.
This isn't going to work. You're going to spend a lot of money on junk radios and junk equipment, then a ton of labor on trying to make it work. It's not going to work. You'll either piss off your employer so bad they'll can you on the spot, or you'll end up calling in a professional and eating all that lost money and labor.

Really, please, you need to bring in a professional if this is the system you want to design.

Or, use cell phones. Or, use a WiFi network with WiFi radios.

This is not a playground that's cheap to play in. Any employer that wants to do this on a budget has no idea what they are doing. Doing it wrong is going to cost a lot of money, and you run the risk of the FCC knocking on your door.


We're happy to help, but please, understand what people are telling you. This isn't going to go the way you want.
 
Last edited:

davidgcet

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
1,325
agree 100000% with mmckenna, i no longer work in 2way but at least once a year i had someone come in with a similar story and unrealistic budget. everything from a small farm to a local agency to casinos. all wanting to get by as cheaply as possible, and any time we did cave and sell a low end system with low end radios and repeater systems it bit us. took me one or two times more than it should have to decide never again. believe me it is in YOUR best interest to convince the power that be to up the budget, take out a loan if need be, and do it right from the start. the bad taste a poor quality system will leave in everyones mouth is not worth the price saved on purchase.
 

wtp

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,145
Location
Port Charlotte FL
a simple thing to remember,
local guys know local problems.
you could set up on a frequency that is adjacent to a 'neighbor's frequency'.
and that would cause an intermittent problem when they transmit but you don't hear them and you can't hear one of your far away units sometimes.
intermittent problems are the worst.
 

ka3aaa

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
1,293
Location
middletown, pa.
get a professional radio company involved and let them do it for you for liability purposes, and equipment maintance. they will know what will work for you as well as doing the necessary paperwork or maybe you would be better off leasing space and equipment from them.
 

CG23

Newbie
Joined
Jan 11, 2023
Messages
4
Hey guys,

Thank you for your input, especially to mmckenna; your details really help me realize just how far we need to go. My dealings with radio equipment has been more than the average person but much, much less than a professional or even many of the hobbyist here. (And I am sure many if not all of you would agree that ignorance is extremely dangerous.)

When I first started this project I did seek out professional help from a Motorola dealer and I contracted with a frequency coordinator to establish five frequencies. The application is still under construction and I may go back to them in the coming weeks to modify it for a repeater (I just don't have the repeater yet). The lead time given from the dealer on the radios and the cost difference were factors I (and mainly the Ops manager) considered at the time. I went back to him later and got a quote on the repeater separately and management was not interested. I could not make a strong enough case at the time to advocate for the professional service and equipment. I feel that with the advice given here today I can; so I greatly appreciate all of your contributions. (Even if some of the comments felt like my idea was set on fire, put out with vigorous stomping, and then set on fire again, lol)

Deal with OSHA or NIOSH sometime if you really want cheek-clenching moments. Being cheap and buying non-certified equipment, dubious imported junk from Amazon, then seeking "professional guidance" from a hobbyist forum aren't the right way. It's all good, until it isn't.
I can't stress enough that for PROFESSIONAL LIFE SAFETY applications, PROFESSIONALS need to be utilized and not shade tree mechanic "teknishun" cobbling stuff together.

I have dealt with OSHA before and I can't agree more with what you have said here. They would ask the question that makes you feel about as big as a cockroach: Did you consider the safety of the employee's life to be worth less than that of the radio equipment? -Ouch.

I would like to clarify one point on the life safety aspect: I have not advocated the use of the radios as a life-safety component of our facility as I knew we had holes in the current network. My goal is to have radios as a component of the safety program but only with the correct equipment, inspection checks and drills. Our yard and shipping crew operate the radios currently with reasonable success, but maintenance has not fully embraced the radios yet. (READ: "these things don't work worth a crap and I'm not interested in carrying crap around") The trouble area is the tunnel under the warehouse- no cell signal in addition to no radio signal, so this is a blank area that I need to fix no matter what. Currently, we use a buddy system.

Many of you suggested that I get with the "local guys"- My problem is that I don't know who they are. The company that I originally got a quote from I believe was located in Jacksonville, FL about 6-8 hours away. Is there any one in the Mobile, AL or Pensacola, FL area that any one on here would know that I could speak to? PM me if you do please.

Again, Thank you for your insight and advice. I wish I had found this forum 8 months ago.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
24,250
Location
I am a lineman for the county.
So, there's a few things I'd suggest:

Stop.
Stop buying equipment.
Stop trying to design this system yourself. It's not going to work.
It's not going to work, and it's going to cost a lot of money to not work. They'll spend a lot more money trying to make it work. Then they'll spend a bunch more money replacing it all with a system that does work.
My concern is that you may get thrown under the proverbial bus when they see how much this has cost them. It sounds like they are not serious about this. They assume they can throw a few thousand dollar at this and have what they need. It doesn't work that way.

Have them hire an experienced/trained/insured professional. If your employer doesn't want to do that, stop. See above. I've seen enough of these self built systems to know how this is going to end. You are looking at a huge investment and it sounds like they are not interested in putting up anything close to the right amount of money to install a functional/reliable system.

The idea that two way radio systems can be built by purchasing individual components from Amazon is a real hazard in the industry.

Consider a different approach to this. It's apparent they are not serious about funding this correctly. It's apparent that you do not have the experience to be designing/installing a system like this. No offense intended, just trying to lay it out for you.
There are other options...
Your plant probably has a data network. Leverage that. I'm betting they have some WiFi network in place, build off that. Everyone likes better WiFi coverage. Networked monitoring of your plant will probably help everyone, boost production and make life easier. It's often much easier to get funding for a WiFi network than anything else.
There are some really nice WiFi and WiFi/LTE radios on the market now. These will run over your existing WiFi network and behave just like a traditional two way radio. The data network does the work for you. Coverage isn't good? add a WiFi access point, or use the cellular network.

Big benefit here is that instead of a large one time cost project that will choke they guys with the money, there is a lower one time cost, and ongoing costs are much smaller. Most like this operational expenditure model much more than a high one time capital expenditure.



Many of you suggested that I get with the "local guys"- My problem is that I don't know who they are. The company that I originally got a quote from I believe was located in Jacksonville, FL about 6-8 hours away. Is there any one in the Mobile, AL or Pensacola, FL area that any one on here would know that I could speak to? PM me if you do please.

Again, Thank you for your insight and advice. I wish I had found this forum 8 months ago.

This is where a professional can help. A consultant that isn't connected to a specific shop or brand name will help you design a radio system that fits YOUR needs, not the sales quotas or shiny new products that a dealer wants to sell.
The professional will know how to design these systems, and will save a lot of time and money in the process.

There are a lot of radio dealers in your area, you just need help finding them. But before you talk to them, make sure your management is on board with this and willing to do it right.

Or, just consider the LTE/WiFi solution I mentioned above.
 

MTS2000des

5B2_BEE00 Czar
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
5,374
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
I have dealt with OSHA before and I can't agree more with what you have said here. They would ask the question that makes you feel about as big as a cockroach: Did you consider the safety of the employee's life to be worth less than that of the radio equipment? -Ouch.
Then you know how brutal it can be. It's all about documentation. The last thing you want is someone getting hurt or worse in a workplace accident and Google searches show someone from the org seeking advice on a radio hobbyist forum on piecing a comm system together with China turd trash from Amazon. Think about how this would sound to a jury of 12 in a civil action. Don't even go there. As mcckenna said, stop.

If your bosses are incompetent and don't want to invest in the proper consulting, equipment and oversight, your best move is to put it all in writing to them and walk away from the project. Remember that guy at Boeing? Or Motron-Thiokol? All of them had clear hearts as they DID THE RIGHT THING and spoke up when corporate overlords made deadly decisions. I'd much rather find a new job (not hard these days) than be part of something unethical, dangerous or potentially illegal.
 

iowajm780

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2021
Messages
181
First thing that pops into my mind is the possibility of dust from the processing. Do you need intrinsically safe radios? Using the wrong type of equipment in that environment can be very dangerous. I'd suggest finding a professional consultant. You don't want to be the guy who's responsible for someone getting killed.

When someone with little to no experience wants to do a radio system as "inexpensively as possible", it's always a red flag.
Radio systems need to be designed by professionals, especially when life safety is involved. This isn't something you do on the internet by buying cheap equipment off e-Bay/Amazon. That's a disaster in the making. You cannot put this together by buying parts. You need training, knowledge, experience and some very expensive test equipment to make everything work correctly and meet FCC requirements.

You'll save a lot of money by brining in a professional.



Do you have the FCC license in hand?

FPCN30A Samcom - The specs on these radios is very poor. While they meet FCC requirements, the poor specs is going to create issues. Life safety should not depend on Cheap Chinese Radios.

H-6 Tidradio - These radios do not have FCC Part 90 type acceptance and cannot be legally used to transmit anywhere other than amateur radio bands.

Baofeng UV-5R - These are the poster child for "Cheap Chinese Radios".

Baofeng BF-F8HP - These radios do not have FCC Part 90 type acceptance and cannot be legally used to transmit anywhere other than amateur radio bands.




Not surprising.
Not trying to bust your chops here, but we need to point out that you are using very, very low tier radios that are known to have very poor specifications. That's working against you.
There's the real possibility that interference from the machinery may be causing issues.
Trying to cover an underground tunnel takes some very specific designs, and it's not something that will be easy or cheap to do.




That repeater interface is going to be a hot mess:
-It does not supply what you need to meet FCC requirements. It needs to ID with your call sign. It needs to have settings that shut it down in a malfunction.
Putting two hand held radios side by side with that little box is going to result in desensitization of the receiver, and will more than likely lock up the system and make it totally useless. Wrong tool for the job.



The FCC license needs to specifically list authorization for a repeater. You need to work with a frequency coordinator to find the proper frequencies to use. The FCC will license you for the repeater. You cannot just pick frequencies or offsets that are not licensed.



No. You need tuned duplexers to do what you want on the transmit side. On the receive side, it can work, but you need filtering and something to offset the losses from the splitter. This is where a trained professional can design an actual functional repeater system that will work. Building a repeater with junk of Amazon is going to lead to major disappointment and lost money. You'll spend a ton of money and labor trying to make this work the way you want. In the end, it's not going to work and you'll still end up paying a professional.



Duplexers need to be tuned, and they need to be tuned on site. Having them tuned and then shipped results in them vibrating off the tuning and not working correctly. It needs to be done on site by someone with a service monitor ($40,000 piece of test equipment).

The correct duplexer to order is one that is specifically designed around your needs, loss budget, frequencies, power level, and installation location. Good ones start at $2,500. Cheap Chinese ones off Amazon still need to be tuned on site, and will have poor performance, especially if your repeater pairs are closely spaced. This is one place you do not want to cut corners.



It depends on what your coverage needs are. There is no "one" antenna that works in every application. This is another place where a trained/experience professional can choose the right antenna for the job.
The antenna gain/pattern will need to be based off what your FCC license allows. That's something that needs to involve the frequency coordinator and whoever designs this system for you. You cannot just grab an antenna and install whatever you want.



For 100 feet, on UHF frequencies, for a repeater, with low power, you need to be running something like 1/2 inch Heliax or better.



Doesn't matter if it's long term or short term, for emergency or not, it needs to be done to FCC rules.

I can really, honestly, appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to save your employer money.

But, you're not the first guy to show up here with a plan like this.
Many of us do this stuff professionally.

Please take this with an open mind and as advice from those of us that do this for a living:
You are in WAY over your head.
This isn't going to work. You're going to spend a lot of money on junk radios and junk equipment, then a ton of labor on trying to make it work. It's not going to work. You'll either piss off your employer so bad they'll can you on the spot, or you'll end up calling in a professional and eating all that lost money and labor.

Really, please, you need to bring in a professional if this is the system you want to design.

Or, use cell phones. Or, use a WiFi network with WiFi radios.

This is not a playground that's cheap to play in. Any employer that wants to do this on a budget has no idea what they are doing. Doing it wrong is going to cost a lot of money, and you run the risk of the FCC knocking on your door.


We're happy to help, but please, understand what people are telling you. This isn't going to go the way you want.
I don't think this person does not care of some of the radios are not type accepted for the frequency bands they will be operated on. Since the radios were already purchased for a very low price, I can't see him returning them to buy radios type accepted for part 90. The thing is of he uses them, what are the chances the FCC does anything about it if those radios are used. Not only that is those radios are crap, pure and simple. Putting someone at risk person were to call for help on the radio and the transmission does not go through due to saving a few bucks is terrible.
 

MTS2000des

5B2_BEE00 Czar
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
5,374
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
The risk of dubious subscriber radios is just one aspect. Cobbling together junk based on a radio hobby forum for professional, safety application itself is just a dangerous game. "It's better to remain silent, than speak up and remove all doubt"
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
24,250
Location
I am a lineman for the county.
I don't think this person does not care of some of the radios are not type accepted for the frequency bands they will be operated on. Since the radios were already purchased for a very low price, I can't see him returning them to buy radios type accepted for part 90.

I think he's aware now.
Most are not aware of this requirement, and the Chinese manufactures know this. The Chinese don't care about US laws/rules, they just care about selling radios.

The type acceptance also ensures the radio is going to be the correct type for the frequencies being used. There's a lot of other things to type acceptance other than meeting the frequency accuracy. There's requirements that make sure the end user can't screw things up.

The thing is of he uses them, what are the chances the FCC does anything about it if those radios are used.

If something goes wrong, they'll be looking at everything.
FCC does occasionally crack down on this stuff, although it's usually at the dealer/reseller level.
But, as they say, "knowing is half the battle".

Not only that is those radios are crap, pure and simple. Putting someone at risk person were to call for help on the radio and the transmission does not go through due to saving a few bucks is terrible.

Correct.
I've put some of the Baofengs on my service monitor. They didn't fare well. They are overpriced at the $20 most of them sell for.
 

btt

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I've put some of the Baofengs on my service monitor. They didn't fare well. They are overpriced at the $20 most of them sell for.
Can you post some sweeps? I've been through a lot with part 90 designs (up to 30 Watts VHF designs). I can't believe a 5W transceiver costing $20 could possibly pass part 90 specs. Would love to see some plots of what you are seeing.
 

mmckenna

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Can you post some sweeps? I've been through a lot with part 90 designs (up to 30 Watts VHF designs). I can't believe a 5W transceiver costing $20 could possibly pass part 90 specs. Would love to see some plots of what you are seeing.

I didn't save them.

I ran about 5 of them through.
One was off frequency by about 500 Hz, another was off 550Hz.
Two of them were over deviating (DTMF). One by quite a bit.
The others were under deviating DTMF. Yeah, DTMF aint a big deal, but not sure if it was just DTMF or the entire radio. Since there isn't a way to align them, I didn't follow it any further.

And there was one that flashlight didn't work!!!

Either way, the were the wrong radio for the job.
 

btt

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I didn't save them.

I ran about 5 of them through.
One was off frequency by about 500 Hz, another was off 550Hz.
Two of them were over deviating (DTMF). One by quite a bit.
The others were under deviating DTMF. Yeah, DTMF aint a big deal, but not sure if it was just DTMF or the entire radio. Since there isn't a way to align them, I didn't follow it any further.

And there was one that flashlight didn't work!!!

Either way, the were the wrong radio for the job.
That doesn't sound too bad. I was expecting something that would cause it to not pass part 90 regs. Usually, it is the harmonics, spurious, D and E masks. No issues there?
 
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