Railroad right of way question
- Thread starter tnbound
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I only worked on the railroad for 5 years between 1985 and 1990. The first year was training and qualifying as an engineer. 2nd year was working on the road, and I was promoted into rail operations. I left right before 5 years because I did not want to transfer my Social Security into Railroad Retirement.
From my experience, technically you are not allowed on Railroad property. You should not be on the right of way. Having said that I've seen many Buffs photographing trains directly on the road. Personally I never had an issue with it and an engineer would have to radio the dispatcher and have the rail police come out.
So there's really no legal distance or limit to trespassing but again knock yourself out.
The Golden Rule would be common sense. You're not going to want to get yourself into compromising situations like being on the busy Northeast Corridor with little wiggle room where Amtrak has 130 mph speed limit but in a remote location where it is relatively safe and you're kind of covert about it you should have no problem.
If you wanted to shoot the high speed Acela for example on the Northeast Corridor you would simply go to a passenger station, all the way to the end of the platform and that's legal.
Again common sense, use your head and don't push the limits LOL.
Happy Hunting.
From my experience, technically you are not allowed on Railroad property. You should not be on the right of way. Having said that I've seen many Buffs photographing trains directly on the road. Personally I never had an issue with it and an engineer would have to radio the dispatcher and have the rail police come out.
So there's really no legal distance or limit to trespassing but again knock yourself out.
The Golden Rule would be common sense. You're not going to want to get yourself into compromising situations like being on the busy Northeast Corridor with little wiggle room where Amtrak has 130 mph speed limit but in a remote location where it is relatively safe and you're kind of covert about it you should have no problem.
If you wanted to shoot the high speed Acela for example on the Northeast Corridor you would simply go to a passenger station, all the way to the end of the platform and that's legal.
Again common sense, use your head and don't push the limits LOL.
Happy Hunting.
Thanks I see people making videos of trains and they are using a scanner and the crew calls them in for filming them. I also was thinking is it legal to video a switch man switching tracks? I would imagine by law you would need somekind of release also. Sorry I'm rambling but the last thing I want to do is bring down the law just to get some video lol?
Union Pacific tells fans of their steam program to stay at least 20-25 feet from the rails. This is a result of a serious incident a few years ago when a fan was too close as a UP steam train came through.
Railroad right-of-way is private property in the case of railroads that are privately owned. In general, if you are filming from a public sidewalk, a public street/road, or non-railroad private property that you have permission to use, and you are a sufficient distance from the tracks, there's not much the railroad can do. The crews may not like you being there and they may call you in, but they can only run you off of their property. If the police show up, you will have to explain what you are doing and they may want you to not obstruct whatever public property you might be on. Under many state laws, a grade crossing between a railroad and a public highway is technically railroad property, so keep that in mind, too.
Also note that railroad crews will become unfriendly to you if they think you are catching them doing something against the rules. Your images or video posted on social media could be used against them if railroad management sees your work. There's a railroad YouTuber that I occasionally see posting videos of moving trains while he's pointing a radar gun at the train to see how fast it's going. I can't imagine that the crews who see him along the line holding a radar gun are very happy about that.
Railroad right-of-way is private property in the case of railroads that are privately owned. In general, if you are filming from a public sidewalk, a public street/road, or non-railroad private property that you have permission to use, and you are a sufficient distance from the tracks, there's not much the railroad can do. The crews may not like you being there and they may call you in, but they can only run you off of their property. If the police show up, you will have to explain what you are doing and they may want you to not obstruct whatever public property you might be on. Under many state laws, a grade crossing between a railroad and a public highway is technically railroad property, so keep that in mind, too.
Also note that railroad crews will become unfriendly to you if they think you are catching them doing something against the rules. Your images or video posted on social media could be used against them if railroad management sees your work. There's a railroad YouTuber that I occasionally see posting videos of moving trains while he's pointing a radar gun at the train to see how fast it's going. I can't imagine that the crews who see him along the line holding a radar gun are very happy about that.
Wow that's crazy lol Thanks for the info.
The rule of thumb is 25 feet from the CLOSEST rail or from the center of the gauge if one track is present. Personally, as a railroader, I wouldn't want to be within that 25 feet of a passing train at speed. That is why you see us climb off the train on the opposite side of a meet and wait 20 feet from our train.
As a railfan, even before I started working for the RR, I'd stay the 25+ feet back, that's what "zoom" in video and telephoto lenses are for!
Just be smart, don't climb on signals, walk the RoW, don't climb on "stationary" equipment, and MOST importantly, as Operation LifeSaver says "expect a train any direction any time!".
Regards,
-Frank C.
As a railfan, even before I started working for the RR, I'd stay the 25+ feet back, that's what "zoom" in video and telephoto lenses are for!
Just be smart, don't climb on signals, walk the RoW, don't climb on "stationary" equipment, and MOST importantly, as Operation LifeSaver says "expect a train any direction any time!".
Regards,
-Frank C.
UPCoffeyvilleSubMain2
Member
Yeah it's crazy
I've had some experience with these matters, and a lot of things depend on other things.
First of all, the railroads and their employees may not like being videoed and photoed.
I know I wouldn't particularly enjoy being recorded at work.
But if one is legally permitted to be where one is when the images are being captured, they can't stop one from capturing images.
If railroaders were law enforcement, it might be different.
Secondly, the UP director of safety told me 25 feet from the nearest rail is the boundary on each side.
This applies whether a train is present, absent or imminent, if one is standing or moving in a direction other than to cross the space as quickly as possible.
One can legally stand as close as the crossing gates even if they are closer than 25 feet to the nearest rail.
As for the police, your mileage may vary.
The police I've interacted with only care whether you're breaking local laws, and railroad trespassing is not one near the top of their list.
On the other hand, even if one is carefully observing the railroads' rules, police will still enforce parking and vehicular law at the location.
One day I had a UP guy in a hy-rail stop and tell me I legally couldn't come closer than 25 feet to a rail, anytime, anywhere.
I asked him, how can I ever cross a grade crossing if I can't come closer than 25 feet?
The very next day at a different location, the same guy told me I had to stay 50 feet away at all times.
Another time a contractor crew was working at the crossing, the foreman walked up and said I was trespassing while legally parked and walking on a city street.
He threatened to call the railroad police if I didn't immediately leave the area .
I told him to go ahead.
Nothing happened.
Be careful out there.
6079smithw
Member
When in doubt, find an overpass with a sidewalk for pedestrians and take all the pictures you want. You may have to shoot between
the wires in a barrier on some of them but it's doable and above all, legal. (Got some great shots of the Tokaido Shinkansen train during
a layover in Nagoya a few years ago.)
the wires in a barrier on some of them but it's doable and above all, legal. (Got some great shots of the Tokaido Shinkansen train during
a layover in Nagoya a few years ago.)
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It's interesting to note there really are three types of trespassing on Railroad property, or the right of way.
You can have the well-intended buff, using common sense and being careful, who is pursuing their hobby. You can have the despondent person who is seriously contemplating suicide and you can have criminals, thieves who are looking to rob equipment and items on sidings and yards.
In some railroads, their own railroad police may not be that close or stretched thin. In the case of a suspected suicidal subject who's walking down the tracks of a busy line with high speed trains every 15 minutes or so will get a response from the local police who will be there very quickly and they will put out a form d to go restricted speed between those milepost or BOLO in that area sounding your horn frequently and watching out for trespassers and police activity. The train director or dispatcher has to make a decision but they usually side on caution even if it bangs the schedule.
In the case of a railroad buff with a camera, local police will not respond and that districts railroad police will do a patrol check at some point. I'm just speaking for the Northeast Corridor in Bucks County Pennsylvania between Cornwell Heights and Trenton.
In the case of a railroader and safety precautions oh, It's Not Unusual to see a Railroader walk across near an interlocking or over four tracks together and stopping and looking both ways as they cross each track even though they're right next to each other. That's the rules.
There is a saying, you don't get injured on the railroad, you get ki... well you know the rest.
Good advice for a buff, learn the Book of Rules with regard to safety and follow them strictly.
You can have the well-intended buff, using common sense and being careful, who is pursuing their hobby. You can have the despondent person who is seriously contemplating suicide and you can have criminals, thieves who are looking to rob equipment and items on sidings and yards.
In some railroads, their own railroad police may not be that close or stretched thin. In the case of a suspected suicidal subject who's walking down the tracks of a busy line with high speed trains every 15 minutes or so will get a response from the local police who will be there very quickly and they will put out a form d to go restricted speed between those milepost or BOLO in that area sounding your horn frequently and watching out for trespassers and police activity. The train director or dispatcher has to make a decision but they usually side on caution even if it bangs the schedule.
In the case of a railroad buff with a camera, local police will not respond and that districts railroad police will do a patrol check at some point. I'm just speaking for the Northeast Corridor in Bucks County Pennsylvania between Cornwell Heights and Trenton.
In the case of a railroader and safety precautions oh, It's Not Unusual to see a Railroader walk across near an interlocking or over four tracks together and stopping and looking both ways as they cross each track even though they're right next to each other. That's the rules.
There is a saying, you don't get injured on the railroad, you get ki... well you know the rest.
Good advice for a buff, learn the Book of Rules with regard to safety and follow them strictly.
30 foot is usually the enforced zone. Also if there is a railing or fence you better be outside it. Rail property violation can get you in federal hot water these days if your not careful. Here in IN CSXT is serious about thier property, and patrols it vigilintly especially in the Indy metro areas. Including the yards and sidings. They have fenced off access to a lot of areas due to homeless and told all outreach groups if you come on our land we will prosecute. Period. Welcome to 2020's.
west5alpha
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- 157
I live near a train yard , I listen to them on my scanner getting as close as possible without being on CN Rail property , only ever had 1 CN employee over the years tell me not to listen to them , poor fella must of been confused
Most Railroads in Georgia have a 100 ft. "Right of way" or "Property line" (If ROW was taken, or if the property was bought and paid for / no "reversionary clauses") That's 50 feet on either side of the centerline of the tracks. Of course, different areas, and different Railroads may have different widths, and sometimes not the same distance from either side of the tracks.
Physically being on railroad tracks against the will of the Railroad in Georgia is illegal regardless.
Easy to check where the property lines are at. Don't assume.
Physically being on railroad tracks against the will of the Railroad in Georgia is illegal regardless.
Easy to check where the property lines are at. Don't assume.
Great info thank you
You can film or photograph trains or their personnel in the public domain - but be mindful that you are not on their property. The law enforcement that you might encounter is very likely to be the local marshal, police, or sheriff - railroad police are very few in number. The RRs do employ private security in certain areas to deter free riders, illegal aliens, theft, criminal damage, etc.
A friendly demeanor and a willingness to observe the legalities goes a very long way to getting an exceptional photo or video.
A friendly demeanor and a willingness to observe the legalities goes a very long way to getting an exceptional photo or video.
And always face toward an oncoming train; if there's any dragging equipment, shifted loads, etc you want to see it before it gets to you so you can get away. A particular hazard would be shipping cables or straps that have broken loose and are dragging along beside the train; they're dang hard to see but could take your head (or other body parts) right off.
Hopefully following all the ideas above, including mine, one is far enough out to not have to worry much about a loose cable or strap that even at at 30MPH could slice you in half...
The better question is, what do you do if you witness a train about to hit something at a crossing you are close to!?
Regards,
-Frank C.
If it's an emergency situation (train hit car, etc.), call 9-1-1 and let the police/fire deal with it. If it's a potential emergency (car stalled on crossing, etc.), call the phone number shown on the blue identification plate on the crossing signal or cross-bucks post. Those signs give the FRA crossing identification number which the person on the other end of the phone can use to figure out the location of what you are reporting. Sometimes, those signs also show the railroad milepost number for that crossing.
I was doing some photography on the tracks in Talkeetna Alaska. A railroad employee told me to get off because a train was coming. I told him I was doing a feature on rural railroads for National Geographic and, in any case, the train was over 30 minutes late. He let me stay. Later I did get some shots of the train further down the tracks (at a safe distance) with the engineer waving at me.
From a commercial point of view, anyone in a public place has no expectation of privacy (streets, public events etc). Thus taking pictures of railroad employees in public view is not illegal. Model releases for commercial use are not a bad idea, but not practical in most cases.
From a commercial point of view, anyone in a public place has no expectation of privacy (streets, public events etc). Thus taking pictures of railroad employees in public view is not illegal. Model releases for commercial use are not a bad idea, but not practical in most cases.
I'd say 20-25 feet from the tracks, however if you see a no trespassing sign don't go past it, there is a huge stink right now about a kid throwing switches on BNSF then videotaping it, he did get a visit from the authorities, mostly just use common sense
