BCD325P2/BCD996P2: Randomly losing signal displaying NFM

[mccuaigk]

I am scanning a Motorola Type II SmartZone with system voice Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface on 800MHz. I was receiving the system perfectly, now instead of displaying the control channel frequency it just says NFM and I stopped picking up any traffic. I was getting iffy reception (one to two bars) so I got an 800MHz specific antenna thinking it was just a weak signal. Now with the new antenna I am constantly getting two to four bars of reception. Thought the antenna was the fix then about an hour or so later, back to a period of just displaying NFM and no traffic. It will randomly start working again and then go back to displaying NFM. Is this just a case of weak signal still (despite 3 bars of reception) or is there something wrong? Thanks.

 

[zwc]

NFM when scanning a trunked system means that the scanner isn't receiving a control channel.
This can be because of two things:
1 - the control channel is weak.
2 - the site has shifted to a different control channel.
Research RR and ensure you have all of the control channels programmed into your site.
Try lowering your squelch. Too high of a squelch setting will cause a NFM condition if the signal isn't particularly strong.
Good luck and get back to us.
- ZWC

 

[marksmith]

These are both great suggestions and the likely source of your problem.

Make sure you have all the alternate (blue) as well as the primary (red) frequencies. If you are getting it great and then no indication of control channel and no reception this is likely your problem.

Note: if all the red and blue frequencies are in there, then put ALL of the system frequencies in there. They might have shifted to an alternate not reflected in RR.

Mark
WS1095/536/436/996P2/HP1e/HP2e/996XT/325P2/396XT/PRO668/PSR800/PRO652

 

[dave3825]

I am scanning a Motorola Type II SmartZone with system voice Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface on 800MHz. I was receiving the system perfectly, now instead of displaying the control channel frequency it just says NFM and I stopped picking up any traffic. I was getting iffy reception (one to two bars) so I got an 800MHz specific antenna thinking it was just a weak signal. Now with the new antenna I am constantly getting two to four bars of reception. Thought the antenna was the fix then about an hour or so later, back to a period of just displaying NFM and no traffic. It will randomly start working again and then go back to displaying NFM. Is this just a case of weak signal still (despite 3 bars of reception) or is there something wrong? Thanks.

Tho your title says Randomly losing signal displaying NFM, Just curious, what system is this? I listen the same type of system and with 2 different scanners, and the signal drops and comes right back. I dont get NFM but it does drop. I usually have 5 bars and seems strong. Unitrunker does not display this behavior. Shows a solid signal. The same with Sdrsharp, shows constant signal. Yet my 436, and 330 the signal drops and returns... 5 bars, 0 bars, 5 bars....


Just curious..

 

[ka3aaa]

It sounds like you are receiving multiple control signals at the same time which will make the scanner go stupid and not receive anything. I would suggest you lock out all the control signals except the strongest one and things should start working again.

My scanners do the same thing on ocassion, so what i told you to do fixed the problem.

Good luck

 

[mccuaigk]

NFM when scanning a trunked system means that the scanner isn't receiving a control channel.
This can be because of two things:
1 - the control channel is weak.
2 - the site has shifted to a different control channel.
Research RR and ensure you have all of the control channels programmed into your site.
Try lowering your squelch. Too high of a squelch setting will cause a NFM condition if the signal isn't particularly strong.
Good luck and get back to us.
- ZWC

I have all the control channels programmed. I believe it may just be a weak signal as I have had better luck after changing to an 800 MHz specific antenna (radio shack model) from the stock antenna. I am using a Uniden BCD996P2 for everyone's reference.

EDIT: The closest 3 towers are all approximately 12 miles direct line of sight away (in three different directions).

 

[mccuaigk]

Tho your title says Randomly losing signal displaying NFM, Just curious, what system is this? I listen the same type of system and with 2 different scanners, and the signal drops and comes right back. I dont get NFM but it does drop. I usually have 5 bars and seems strong. Unitrunker does not display this behavior. Shows a solid signal. The same with Sdrsharp, shows constant signal. Yet my 436, and 330 the signal drops and returns... 5 bars, 0 bars, 5 bars....


Just curious..

This is MoCo in MD. Issue seems to have improved/gone away with an 800 MHz specific antenna. I have the scanner in the basement which may be part of the issue of weak signal. Before I had one to two bar when it was working and now I have a consistent three to four and I haven't seen it drop and display NFM since. I am confident that all the control channels are in and have not changed from what is on RR.

 

[marksmith]

Strange of you are actually in MoCo, unless your basement is very well insulated. Can monitor MoCo from the west side of AA County easily, and at times can get it on the east side of AA County, depending on weather/atmospheric conditions.

My point is, it's a very strong system, and if you are within 12 miles of 3 tower sites, it should come in great with any antenna.

So you are either in a valley somewhere or have a very insulated basement (potentially including some steel in the walls).

Mark
WS1095/536/436/996P2/HP1e/HP2e/996XT/325P2/396XT/PRO668/PSR800/PRO652

 

[bsfan1877]

Reception issues with RISCON 800 Trunked

Hi, yes, I am having the same issues. Im in Rhode Island. Many departments in the State are switching to the Apco Phase 1 800. I have two 996XT radios, And recently purchased a 996P2. One of the older models is in my truck. I was hoping buying the new model would fix my reception issues. Wrong!! Ive tried a Yagi directional in the rafters of my garage, as well a Laird short fiberglass. Have used the back of set telescoping, the Radio Shack 800 and this week a stubby 800 with a bnc adapter, all to no avail. I live 12 miles south of Providence, and receive their transmissions crystal clear. They have built a system within the RISCON system, using their own control channels and towers. I live as the crow flies about 2 miles from the closest South zone tower and about 6 miles from the closest North zone tower. This system is a simulcast system. It seems like Im too close to the damn towers!!! If I hook up the good antennas in the garage, either one, the signal strength goes bonkers and just flashes, but never for Providence site. Ive spent more on antennas in the last three months than I have in 40 years. Can anyone give me some insight? Im not new to scanners or radio systems. I dispatched for a local department in RI for 30 years. But this system is killing me. Help!!!!

 

[bsfan1877]

Reception issues with RISCON 800 Trunked

Hi, yes, I am having the same issues. Im in Rhode Island. Many departments in the State are switching to the Apco Phase 1 800. I have two 996XT radios, And recently purchased a 996P2. One of the older models is in my truck. I was hoping buying the new model would fix my reception issues. Wrong!! Ive tried a Yagi directional in the rafters of my garage, as well a Laird short fiberglass. Have used the back of set telescoping, the Radio Shack 800 and this week a stubby 800 with a bnc adapter, all to no avail. I live 12 miles south of Providence, and receive their transmissions crystal clear. They have built a system within the RISCON system, using their own control channels and towers. I live as the crow flies about 2 miles from the closest South zone tower and about 6 miles from the closest North zone tower. This system is a simulcast system. It seems like Im too close to the damn towers!!! If I hook up the good antennas in the garage, either one, the signal strength goes bonkers and just flashes, but never for Providence site. Ive spent more on antenna in the last three months than I have in 40 years. Can anyone give me some insight? Im not new to scanners or radio systems. I dispatched for a local department in RI for 30 years. But this system is killing me. Help!!!!

 

[maus92]

Hi, yes, I am having the same issues. Im in Rhode Island. Many departments in the State are switching to the Apco Phase 1 800. I have two 996XT radios, And recently purchased a 996P2. One of the older models is in my truck. I was hoping buying the new model would fix my reception issues. Wrong!! Ive tried a Yagi directional in the rafters of my garage, as well a Laird short fiberglass. Have used the back of set telescoping, the Radio Shack 800 and this week a stubby 800 with a bnc adapter, all to no avail. I live 12 miles south of Providence, and receive their transmissions crystal clear. They have built a system within the RISCON system, using their own control channels and towers. I live as the crow flies about 2 miles from the closest South zone tower and about 6 miles from the closest North zone tower. This system is a simulcast system. It seems like Im too close to the damn towers!!! If I hook up the good antennas in the garage, either one, the signal strength goes bonkers and just flashes, but never for Providence site. Ive spent more on antenna in the last three months than I have in 40 years. Can anyone give me some insight? Im not new to scanners or radio systems. I dispatched for a local department in RI for 30 years. But this system is killing me. Help!!!!

You may be too close to several towers as you said. Have you tried setting the attenuation to ON for their specific simulcast cell (site) within the RISCON system? Or pointing the Yagi at one tower (with no other in that general direction?) Simulcast systems can be a PITA to receive reliably all the time, and some people have resorted to using paper clips for antennas...

 

[bsfan1877]

800 reception

Hi,,thanks for the reply. And yes, short of a paper clip, Ive done it all, from a yagi directional, to a Laird fiberglass omnii directional in my garage, which should be more than enough, to the radio shack back of set, a stubby on a back of set connector. Its just weird because I get Providence, which is 12 miles away on the same system, yet on its own set of freqs, and th rest of the state, which im closest to tower wise, and I cant get them all the time. Its aggravating to say the least.

 

[bsfan1877]

And yes,,,Ive tried the attenuator setting, that just kills the signal to death.

 

[maus92]

And yes,,,Ive tried the attenuator setting, that just kills the signal to death.

That's too bad. Just last night I set the attenuator on a simulcast system that was 5 bars yet was missing transmissions / scratchy (MOT2 w/ some P25P1 TGs,) and although the signal was reduced to 2 bars, reception improved to the point where I wasn't missing transmissions (but still was a bit scratchy.) Anyway, some people report getting better results by moving the radio to another location in their home.

 

[bsfan1877]

Thanks. Yea,,Ive tried all the tricks. Moving the radio, changing antennas, using bthe stock, radios shack, stubby, yagi, omni. Its been a nightmare. And now my local FD is switching over, and I get some transmissions, they are patching a simulcast to a vhf feed so i get the echos too. It just sucks.

 

[dph2902]

RISCON is giving me fits also. Pretty new to the digital trunking, have an antenna on the roof and an getting 3-5 bars on an alternate control, but still have NFM and only occasionally catch a few words from various talk groups. Using a BCD992P2. I live less than 5 miles from two south transmitters in Tiverton and Little Compton if the information is accurate. If I monitor the one control channel that I receive 853.8750, I get periodic static and see SID: 0192h-0102. Occasionally I'll see one of the talk groups I have set to receive pop up but rarely get sound.

 

[marksmith]

Hi,,thanks for the reply. And yes, short of a paper clip, Ive done it all, from a yagi directional, to a Laird fiberglass omnii directional in my garage, which should be more than enough, to the radio shack back of set, a stubby on a back of set connector. Its just weird because I get Providence, which is 12 miles away on the same system, yet on its own set of freqs, and th rest of the state, which im closest to tower wise, and I cant get them all the time. Its aggravating to say the least.

Try the paper clip. Usually when you can't get the stuff that is closest, you need to make the antenna as poor as possible, to negate simulcast issues. More bars = worse reception.

Directional antennas are good too, as long as the directional path is very narrow. If not, two sites can still compete and cancel each other out with simulcast distortion.

Mark
WS1095/536/436/996P2/HP1e/HP2e/996XT/325P2/396XT/PRO668/PSR800/PRO652

 

[kennyloatman]

I had simular to the same problem , Mot/2 system, 996P2, Tower 3 miles away, Weak signal, Control channel in and out. Adjusted everything, Modulation, attenuation, nothing worked until I turned off the AGC. Problem solved for me. In fact I turned AGC off on all my systems. It's like my scanner got a tune-up.

 

[marksmith]

I had simular to the same problem , Mot/2 system, 996P2, Tower 3 miles away, Weak signal, Control channel in and out. Adjusted everything, Modulation, attenuation, nothing worked until I turned off the AGC. Problem solved for me. In fact I turned AGC off on all my systems. It's like my scanner got a tune-up.

This is a very good point. Most systems administer their own AGC within the system, and the option on the scanner often fights with the monitored system, creating choppy or dropout results.

I have never had, in recent times, on a Uniden, GRE, or Whistler radio, better results with AGC on. Its usually the opposite. Years ago I think AGC was a useful option, but not any more. I have it disabled in all my radios.

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