RAV4 2022 NMO Mounts or Something Else?

[AF1UD]

Hi All!

I am currently using 2 mag mounts with protective rubber boots that are cleaned weekly. The mag mounts haven't scratched the paint yet, but I am sure it is only a matter of time. However, I was wondering if it would be prudent to install NMO Mounts. I have seen many people on this forum which state to "drill the damn hole". I am concerned about water and/or moisture damage on my new car which is outside 24/7. I perused some other forums and the internet which state that they aren't waterproof. Or if anyone can suggest something else that would be great! It's a Toyota Rav4 2022 Hybrid XLE

I also have roof racks which can be used. I am using Compactenna's which don't need the a good ground plane to function.

Thanks!

 

[tweiss3]

The Compactenna is an oddity. I've talked to Dr. Jack, and they do not like the traditional center roof mount. You really want a corner mount, probably where you have your mag mount. If you are married to the Compactenna (nothing negative about the antennas), you may want to do a rear hatch lip mount, like Trunk Lip Mount NMO Antenna 17' RG58/U Coax Cable TE Connectivity TMB8U. I have a few friends that use them with good results. It provides better mounting than the mag mount, but still the corner/edge ground plane required for the Compactenna to work well.

 

[AF1UD]

The Compactenna is an oddity. I've talked to Dr. Jack, and they do not like the traditional center roof mount. You really want a corner mount, probably where you have your mag mount. If you are married to the Compactenna (nothing negative about the antennas), you may want to do a rear hatch lip mount, like Trunk Lip Mount NMO Antenna 17' RG58/U Coax Cable TE Connectivity TMB8U. I have a few friends that use them with good results. It provides better mounting than the mag mount, but still the corner/edge ground plane required for the Compactenna to work well.

Unfortunately I cannot make that work. My trunk doesn't have enough of a lip. I could put them on my front engine cover...

The compactenna is something that I've found through testing to be better than others (but I digress). I also cannot drill a hole in the center of my car due to the sunroof. This also hampers my possibilities.

 

[ramal121]

If your MNO mount is not waterproof then you have installed it wrong.

 

[mmckenna]

However, I was wondering if it would be prudent to install NMO Mounts.

Works better. Looks better. Won't scratch the paint. To me it has always been prudent. Some may disagree.

I have seen many people on this forum which state to "drill the damn hole".

Sounds kinda familiar.

I am concerned about water and/or moisture damage on my new car which is outside 24/7. I perused some other forums and the internet which state that they aren't waterproof.

I would recommend avoiding those "other forums". People that have never properly installed an NMO mount will often say nonsense like this to justify their own laziness. You probably also hear that it would "lower trade in value". There's a lot of this sort of BS that gets repeated by those that think a $14 Chinese radio is a good product. Usually hobbyists/hams like to say these sorts of things frequently. Avoid those people. You deserve better information.

Or if anyone can suggest something else that would be great! It's a Toyota Rav4 2022 Hybrid XLE

I also have roof racks which can be used. I am using Compactenna's which don't need the a good ground plane to function.

Roof rack won't provide a suitable ground plane. Compactenna's get some good reviews in some applications. With both these, the challenge becomes getting the coaxial cable inside the vehicle. Running it through a door or window is risking water leakage as well as risks damage to the coaxial cable.


I have installed a lot of permanent NMO mounts over the years. None, zero, of those have leaked. Ever. The mounts use an o-ring that seals the outside and the o-ring is well protected. Following the directions that come with the NMO mount will give you a waterproof seal that will outlast the car.

Plus, you get the benefit of not having to route coax cable through door/window trim, you don't have to leave windows cracked open. You also get an actual ground connection at the antenna base, which will improve performance and reduce/prevent stray RF on the coax shield.

Never once have I regretted doing a permanent install on my personal vehicles. It's usually the first thing they get when I bring them home from the dealer. I've installed NMO mounts on $70-$80,000 pickup trucks that had just come from the dealer.

 

[AF1UD]

Works better. Looks better. Won't scratch the paint. To me it has always been prudent. Some may disagree.



Sounds kinda familiar.



I would recommend avoiding those "other forums". People that have never properly installed an NMO mount will often say nonsense like this to justify their own laziness. You probably also hear that it would "lower trade in value". There's a lot of this sort of BS that gets repeated by those that think a $14 Chinese radio is a good product. Usually hobbyists/hams like to say these sorts of things frequently. Avoid those people. You deserve better information.



Roof rack won't provide a suitable ground plane. Compactenna's get some good reviews in some applications. With both these, the challenge becomes getting the coaxial cable inside the vehicle. Running it through a door or window is risking water leakage as well as risks damage to the coaxial cable.


I have installed a lot of permanent NMO mounts over the years. None, zero, of those have leaked. Ever. The mounts use an o-ring that seals the outside and the o-ring is well protected. Following the directions that come with the NMO mount will give you a waterproof seal that will outlast the car.

Plus, you get the benefit of not having to route coax cable through door/window trim, you don't have to leave windows cracked open. You also get an actual ground connection at the antenna base, which will improve performance and reduce/prevent stray RF on the coax shield.

Never once have I regretted doing a permanent install on my personal vehicles. It's usually the first thing they get when I bring them home from the dealer. I've installed NMO mounts on $70-$80,000 pickup trucks that had just come from the dealer.

Thanks. I was reading that for long periods of time outdoors I should put a cap on the antenna connector and take the connector off. Is this true?

Also, can you point me in a good direction to get quality parts and/or instructions? I don't wanna mess this up lol.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks. I was reading that for long periods of time outdoors I should put a cap on the antenna connector and take the connector off. Is this true?

The NMO mount itself has an o-ring seal under the mounting ring that will protect the vehicle. Good antennas will have an additional o-ring on its base, that will add an additional seal. No reason to use an NMO rain cap unless you specifically need to remove the antenna for long periods of time. Even a short run through a car wash won't harm an exposed NMO mount.

Also, can you point me in a good direction to get quality parts and/or instructions? I don't wanna mess this up lol.

A couple of things...

Avoid the Cheap Chinese Crap. There's little cost savings. Spend the extra dollar or two and go with name brand mounts. Larsen is my personal favorite. I've been using Larsen for well over 30 years and never had one of their mounts fail. Do —not— buy the cheap Chinese mounts, Tram/Browning or the ham radio specific brands. If you are going to drill a hole in an expensive vehicle, install a suitable mount, not the least expensive one you can find.

The mount will come with directions. Follow those.

Spend some time figuring out the locations. You do not necessarily need access to the underside of the NMO mount. They are designed to be mounted "blind". Removing the headliner is rarely required. I cannot remember the last time I ever had to drop a headliner on a vehicle. If someone tells you that you must drop the headliner, walk away, they've never done an NMO install.

Consider the antenna locations with regards to providing suitable ground plane under the antenna. Ideally you want 1/4 wavelength in each direction under the antenna. Consider suitable antenna separation between antennas if one or more are used for transmitting.

Use the correct tools for the job. You will absolutely need a 3/4" hole saw or chassis punch. NMO specific hole saws are a tad expensive, but are designed with a depth limitation feature. It really is worth buying the actual NMO hole saw. However, I have used some 0.750 diameter hole saws that were designed for thin sheet metal. Home Depot has one that I had to purchase in a jam, and it worked really well. I think it was a DeWalt brand. Don't use hole saws designed for wood. Teeth are too aggressive and can get you in trouble.

Get a piece of scrap sheet metal and make a few practice runs. Get the feel for how the saw bites in and how much pressure you need. Don't overheat things, go slow, you've got plenty of time.

Good NMO mounts will sometimes come with a small tube of silicone grease. This is to be applied to the O ring that goes on the underside of the NMO ring when you install. The grease is to keep the O ring from binding as you tighten everything. If it doesn't come with it, not a big deal, but using a bit of suitable grease is good practice.

Use good antennas. The Larsen NMO mounts that use the black bases have an excellent sealing gasket that seals the underside of the antenna where it mounts to the NMO mount.
EM Wave has an equally impressive sealing design.


Once you do one of these, and realize how easy it is, you'll be a convert. You'll also wish you'd done it a long time ago. It looks way more professional that mag mounts or compromise mounts.

 

[AF1UD]

Spend some time figuring out the locations. You do not necessarily need access to the underside of the NMO mount. They are designed to be mounted "blind". Removing the headliner is rarely required. I cannot remember the last time I ever had to drop a headliner on a vehicle. If someone tells you that you must drop the headliner, walk away, they've never done an NMO install.

It seems every shop in my immediate area does it like this from the quotes I've received. How do you run the wire if you don't take down the headliner?

 

[mmckenna]

It seems every shop in my immediate area does it like this from the quotes I've received. How do you run the wire if you don't take down the headliner?

You would fish the coax from the mount over to the edge and then start routing the cable down the trim. Sometimes it's easy to remove trim panels and visualize everything. Usually not hard on modern vehicles.

If you've got a decent quote from an install shop, that might be a better solution. By the time you get the NMO hole saw, plus all your time, it can be cheaper to just hire a professional.

On the other hand, if you are going to install more than the 2 mounts, or start doing it for friends, then it might be worth it.

A good shop will also cut your coax to length, install the correct connectors, and sweep your antennas.

 

[ramal121]

Also some shops don't get the outside to inside technique. They will drill a 1" hole to pop the button up from the bottom which requires pulling the headliner regardless. Then with a 1" hole your NMO mount is compromised.

 

[W9WSS]

I have had 10+ vehicles in my owning and driving "career;" Each and every one of them had multiple NMO mounts on the roof and trunk lid. I have NEVER had a water or moisture issue with NMO mounts, and performance has been excellent on all bands that I specifically operate. The value of my vehicles has never changed when I traded them in, however, a few vehicles I sold with the radios and antennas installed and left for the new owner.

Sadly, The Antenna Farm is *temporarily* closed until some time in 2024. They were my go-to vendor for antennas and NMO mounts. It has something to do with the health of the owner, but aside from that, they're closed (for now).

Since they are not available, I purchased my last four NMO antenna mounts with appropriate connectors from Arcadian Antenna ( www.arcadianinc.com ). Their prices are similar to The Antenna Farm, and delivery is very fast. I'm sure there are many other vendors out there, which I'm sure you'll get from subsequent responses.

 

[merlin]

Last antenna I installed was a Motorola 'KIT' came with everything but tools.
If installed by the directions, they don't leak. Kits somtimes come with caps for like going through a car wash.
Lip mount brackets com in several flavors and will clamp to any lip.
A county detective has one on the hood near the windshield just inside the hinge. Looks nice, works nice.

 

[DeoVindice]

I would recommend avoiding those "other forums". People that have never properly installed an NMO mount will often say nonsense like this to justify their own laziness. You probably also hear that it would "lower trade in value". There's a lot of this sort of BS that gets repeated by those that think a $14 Chinese radio is a good product. Usually hobbyists/hams like to say these sorts of things frequently. Avoid those people. You deserve better information.

I'm hardly a typical vehicle buyer, but I consider a well-done antenna install to be value-added when looking at a vehicle!

I've worked for companies with hundreds of vehicles with NMO mounts installed. Never seen even one leak.

 

[mmckenna]

I've worked for companies with hundreds of vehicles with NMO mounts installed. Never seen even one leak.

Right, 'cuz they don't, if they are installed by a competent tech, or at least someone who can read and follow simple directions and understands the importance of using the correct tool for the job.

I suspect those that claim they leak have never installed an NMO mount.

 

[bharvey2]

I have a RAV 4 a few years older than yours and installed multiple NMO mounts. No sunroof in mine. My brother also owns a RAV with a sunroof. I helped him install an NMO mount in it. Neither install was particularly difficult. (I placed installation photos of mine in an earlier post a few years ago. My M.O. for NMO mounts is to drop the back end or side of the liner (depends upon the vehicle ) a few inches and slide a cookie sheet under the hole location and and a layer of painters tape on the paint surface while drilling. I use a standard hole saw but they do make purpose built hole saws speciifically for NMO mounts. As has been mentioned above, a properly installed mount doesn't leak. They are just as watertight as the sharkfin antennas used on modern cars. (Yep, there's a hole under those too) Also as noted before, don't cheap out on the NMO mount/cable. The difference in price between a Larsen or Laird and an cheap knock-off is negligible.

The only obstacle I see is your use of the roof rack. That could pose a problem but that's a call you'll need to make.

 

[AF1UD]

I have a RAV 4 a few years older than yours and installed multiple NMO mounts. No sunroof in mine. My brother also owns a RAV with a sunroof. I helped him install an NMO mount in it. Neither install was particularly difficult. (I placed installation photos of mine in an earlier post a few years ago. My M.O. for NMO mounts is to drop the back end or side of the liner (depends upon the vehicle ) a few inches and slide a cookie sheet under the hole location and and a layer of painters tape on the paint surface while drilling. I use a standard hole saw but they do make purpose built hole saws speciifically for NMO mounts. As has been mentioned above, a properly installed mount doesn't leak. They are just as watertight as the sharkfin antennas used on modern cars. (Yep, there's a hole under those too) Also as noted before, don't cheap out on the NMO mount/cable. The difference in price between a Larsen or Laird and an cheap knock-off is negligible.

The only obstacle I see is your use of the roof rack. That could pose a problem but that's a call you'll need to make.

The roof rack is out of the way. It shouldn't pose a problem for the type of antenna I'm installing. I'll check out your posts to see photos.

 

[devicelab]

Sadly, The Antenna Farm is *temporarily* closed until some time in 2024. They were my go-to vendor for antennas and NMO mounts. It has something to do with the health of the owner, but aside from that, they're closed (for now).

Since they are not available, I purchased my last four NMO antenna mounts with appropriate connectors from Arcadian Antenna ( www.arcadianinc.com ). Their prices are similar to The Antenna Farm, and delivery is very fast. I'm sure there are many other vendors out there, which I'm sure you'll get from subsequent responses.

I can recommend WPS... they ship fast and tend to be reliable. If something goes out of stock then they communicate very quickly. I've never had an issue with them. I guess their only issue may be price point. I think they're kind of in the middle.

https://www.wpsantennas.com/antenex-laird-antennas-mounts.aspx

 

[slowmover]

Not a suggestion for this thread, just an illustration of the range of quality pieces available in NMO (this one from BREEDLOVE MOUNTS. So nice you’ll regret having to install it versus hold & admire it).

 

[KK6ZTE]

Not a suggestion for this thread, just an illustration of the range of quality pieces available in NMO (this one from BREEDLOVE MOUNTS. So nice you’ll regret having to install it versus hold & admire it).

View attachment 151015

A solution looking for a problem?

 

[slowmover]

Wind load.