Re-banding revisited

[qlajlu]

Okay, here it is, the end of April and I am wondering if anyone has any more information on the re-banding thing. UCAN has apparently become the poster child for the change, but I have not heard another word about it.

I know it won't happen overnight, but then that brings up the questions (1) what are we to expect, (2) when the change is made will it be suddenly or will we gradually lose the ability to monitor different agencies, (3) will us scan jockeys have any immediate warning or just one day turn on the unit(s) and not be able to hear anything?

Does anyone have any updated information?

 

[N7OLQ]

Since system downtime has to be almost zero, I can imagine two different scenarios.
1. They will bring up new prepeaters and test them and then just flip the switch.
2. They will remove one repeater at a time and reconfigure it and add it back into the site.

Either way, I think the only early warning you will get is if you are searching the rebanded frequency range and listening for tests etc. Searching may have to be done in conventional mode. If scenario #2 is used, you may notice some odd behavior from your scanner. It might jump you to silent/non-existant frequencies since the lookup table for your scanner will be wrong (that is, if they mix pre-rebanding controller code with the new code for the new freqs).

Brett - N7OLQ

 

[qlajlu]

Thanks for that information, Brett. Since you are a Database Administrator, do you have any advance notice as to what frequencies will or might become control channel frequencies under the new structure for UCAN? Will the TGIDs remain the same?

 

[N7OLQ]

There is no way to predict what the new freqs will be. All we know is the rebanding range that they are going to be in.

I doubt very much if any talkgroup changes will be made as a result of rebanding.

 

[UPMan]

Actually, you can check to see what the new frequency will be by going to:

http://www.800ta.org/content/800Mhz/call_sign.asp

and entering the system's call sign.

 

[n4voxgill]

If every radio in the system has to be reprogramed, what better time to update talk groups. Many systems would like to make talk group changes, but it is so hard to get all of the radios in to make the update. So I would expect most systems will have talkgroup changes.

 

[kf7yn]

Well according to the info provided at http://www.800ta.org/content/800Mhz/call_sign.asp
UCAN will move everything down exactly 15 MHz. This sounds too easy but we'll see soon enough.

 

[N_Jay]

Well according to the info provided at http://www.800ta.org/content/800Mhz/call_sign.asp
UCAN will move everything down exactly 15 MHz. This sounds too easy but we'll see soon enough.

If they are in the NPSPAC band (821-824/866-869), then it is down 15, if they are in other portions then it is more complicated.

This has not changed in over a year.

 

[N7OLQ]

That sounds a little too idealistic. Why did they allow so much time for "negotiations" if there is nothing to negotiate?

On the other hand, I hope it is that easy. It will make finding all the new freqs quite easy.

 

[N7OLQ]

Also, the UCAN FCC records have never been accurate and are not required to be (at least for this region). This paragraph on the 800ta.org site seems to make things sound less certain:

"Licensees may be operating certain frequencies in a non-standard manner under FCC Waiver or Special Conditions. Information displayed herein regarding those call signs and frequencies operating in a non-standard manner may not correctly reflect actual operations. Such call signs and frequencies may need to be analyzed individually and reconfigured on a case by case basis."

Seems to leave the door open for variability.

 

[N7OLQ]

If every radio in the system has to be reprogramed, what better time to update talk groups. Many systems would like to make talk group changes, but it is so hard to get all of the radios in to make the update. So I would expect most systems will have talkgroup changes.

Not necessary with OTAR, but you make a good point.

 

[N_Jay]

That sounds a little too idealistic. Why did they allow so much time for "negotiations" if there is nothing to negotiate?

On the other hand, I hope it is that easy. It will make finding all the new freqs quite easy.

All depends, there are very few reasons not to use teh frequencies selected 15 MHz down. The negotiations are over mostly over the $$ not the MHz.

 

[N_Jay]

Also, the UCAN FCC records have never been accurate and are not required to be (at least for this region). This paragraph on the 800ta.org site seems to make things sound less certain:

"Licensees may be operating certain frequencies in a non-standard manner under FCC Waiver or Special Conditions. Information displayed herein regarding those call signs and frequencies operating in a non-standard manner may not correctly reflect actual operations. Such call signs and frequencies may need to be analyzed individually and reconfigured on a case by case basis."

Seems to leave the door open for variability.

Only if the system was licensed under a waiver (fairly rare).

 

[N_Jay]

Not necessary with OTAR, but you make a good point.

Very few systems have complete Over the air Reprogramming.

OTAR usually refers to Over The Air Re-keying for encryption.

 

[N7OLQ]

Only if the system was licensed under a waiver (fairly rare).

Since UCAN has such a large pool of freqs they can and do move freqs from site to site as needed. I expect this to be the case to simplify the move. It only says a freq has to move down 15MHz, not where a freq can be used. So there will likely be a discovery process for us once the move starts.

 

[N7OLQ]

P.S. N_Jay, Thanks for editing the tone of one of your previous messages - the gesture did not go unappreciated. I know you have been a great contributor to many discussions and I've learned useful information from you on multiple occasions.

Thanks,
Brett - N7OLQ

 

[N_Jay]

Since UCAN has such a large pool of freqs they can and do move freqs from site to site as needed. I expect this to be the case to simplify the move. It only says a freq has to move down 15MHz, not where a freq can be used. So there will likely be a discovery process for us once the move starts.

The NPSPAC frequencies are issues under the guidance of a regional plan.
Since these frequencies are moving as a block, all the relationships stay the same and all an agency has to do is continue to adhere to the plan.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/publicsafety/800MHz/