• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Real world testing this evening

SmileySixguns

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2023
Messages
63
Location
Georgia
I finally had the opportunity to do some real world testing with my equipment. I got my Tram 3500 antenna yesterday, so I put that onto my truck. Today, I put my old Radio Shack mag mount antenna onto my younger daughter's car and hooked up my TRC-502 to it. I had her sit in her car in our driveway while I drove around to various places in our community. I showed her how to adjust the squelch and off I went. Our area has undulating terrain with LOTS of trees. We were able to hear and talk to each other out to about 4.8 miles apart. Both CBs are stock, nothing special done to them. I stopped at a number of friends' driveways and was pleased to hear that if they also took an interest, that we could easily chat with them from our house to theirs. We conducted this test for approximately an hour and a half, all on channel 20. I never heard anyone else talking the entire time we were doing this. I should mention, the Radio Shack antenna is only 34 inches tall. I have another one of those, but I have to get another ferrule for it before it's ready for service.
 

slowmover

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
2,744
Location
Fort Worth
Nicely done!

Taller antenna will increase RX/TX potential.

It’s noticeable on my truck the change from 6’ to 7’. With the former where I can just hear someone at my range limit, swap to the latter and I can hear him better and also his conversational partner.

IMO, with a mobile system we work to overcome the deficiencies of the other mens systems as those are 90%+ poor.

Range & Clarity, which comprise Time

Winding in some toroid ferrites as feedpoint & receiver chokes (filters) is the easiest next step, as well as some RF Bonding.

Test for DC noise, engine-running.

External speaker.

The radios tend to be pretty good. The vehicles need help with antenna & power systems to get the Signal-to-Noise Ratio lowest. After that is tallest antenna then integrated NRC radio (active filtration + frequency stability on SSB).




Remediation isn’t reason to give up, it’s reason to be thankful for difficult operating conditions which enable improvements that can be easily tested. AM-19 isn’t the only channel overwhelmed. Best operating conditions also jumped up an order of magnitude in performance.

If you do but one of the vehicles as above this becomes quite obvious. It’s also salve to those neighbors & friends bruised feelings on encountering this (one can be well-meaning, so the value of one’s advice is on the line).

Also, in the first couple hours past sundown as “most” Skip fades . . . is when I’ll start to hear both Alaska and Hawaii, not just locals on-air, on AM-19, 17/18 and 20/21. (Not everyday or everywhere Im currently located).

— Take your tests just far enough out in distance from the metro to be able to note the cessation of metro noise day & night. Your vehicle-to-vehicle range will have increased thereby. The above recommendations are prophylactic against metro & channel noise, first, and enhancement of clarity, second.

.
 
Last edited:

slowmover

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
2,744
Location
Fort Worth
IMG_1394.jpeg

A SIRIO 5000 represents best mag mount or permanent choice where greatest clearance is desired as against a 9’ quarter-wave (height plus whip-bend; strike). As you can see, it can also be folded over.

“Best” in the sense that its total height leverages the ability of the radio to perform to maximum. And magnifies all system improvements such that high performance is a reality once combined with an NRC radio.

Given NRC, I ran thru D/FW with one on a triple-mag in testing a system for my son in my pickup . . and had pretty much the best ears of any around me. Conflicting reports from the many major arteries was the data to sort.

Definition of a problem isn’t automatic, nor is solution.

One might say that it’s Dynamic Ability in contention against conditions.

To Hear and to Be Heard means one becomes a valued participant as others are searching for much of the same in specifics or in context.

More than once I’ve altered course thru a major metro several times to try and stay on-time. Extrapolate this to other circumstances you feel are germane.

A 3’ mag-mount is the mobile system equivalent of a rubber duckie on any type handheld when it matters.

.
 
Last edited:

SmileySixguns

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2023
Messages
63
Location
Georgia
The neighbors and I have been chatting about having our own small net of some sort. We're leaning towards GMRS, but since I already had 2 CBs, I thought I'd just see what they could do. The CBs are definitely a rabbit hole lol. I had no intention of buying another antenna when I started messing with them, yet here we are lol. You can wander around and find all sorts of things to tinker with associated with CB. I stuck that Tram 3500 on top of the truck roof, and that antenna is about 60", putting it roughly 11 feet off the ground at the tip. What really surprised me was that I was able to hear my daughter. She had just a 34" antenna sitting on top of a Honda Civic, and I could hear her pretty good. Both of my daughters and even the grandkids are familiar with our GMRS radios, as we use them primarily when we're traveling. Having the CBs will just be an additional option. A few of my friends have already also been buying GMRS radios, so that's the majority so far. But the CB just has a different type of cool factor all it's own. That folding capability of your antenna is really useful. I did notice an increase in noise when I turn on my marker lights. The ones in the headlight housing are LEDs, and as soon as I turn them on the noise picks up.
 

merlin

Active Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2003
Messages
3,094
Location
DN32su
That Tram 3500 is designed much like the Wilson 1000M. The base load is a tuned circuit with a DC ground so it helps reduce noise a lot.'
The Sirio 5000 on the otherhand is just a base loaded whip and more susceptable to noise. Design much like the K-40.
Technically 5/8 wave, they all have about 3.2 Db gain.
Most base loaded 34 inch antennae I have seen are like the vintage Antenna Specialist M-125. Design like the Tram and Wison.
The difference is they are 1/2 wave and provide about 2.5 Db gain.
All very worthy antennas pending your noise environment.
About magnet mount. Some have claimed they detract from performance or induce SWR problems, and that is not true.
At 27 Mhz, the capacitive coupling to a roof compares to a short. Capacitice reactance near zero ohms.

@ slowmover. Post #4, personally, I would go with a 5 inch mount, won't slide or fold even at 80 MPH.
 

prcguy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
16,325
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
When speaking of full size base antennas there are slight gain benefits going from a 1/4 ground plane to a 1/2 wave to a 5/8 wave. For mobile antennas it’s a different story and due to losses incurred from shortening the antenna via loading coils there is no gain and for a given size antenna like 34 inches long, there will be no difference between a mobile 1/4 wave vs 1/2 wave or 5/8 wave. In fact a 5/8 may have more losses due to loading and could be worse than a similar size 1/4 wave. The only way to know which one is better is to test them all.
 

slowmover

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
2,744
Location
Fort Worth
I’ll bow to y’all’s expertise, still . . . .

I haven’t found a mobile antenna under 5’ yet to be worth owning versus something taller given that one is chasing system SNR problems to solution.

This intersection — given DSP filtration —is where CB becomes high performance versus the expectations of the last five decades of what’s “reasonable” to expect.

On the big truck the change from 6’ to 7’ is where total height is from near 13’ to near 14’. True, that I’ve a 13’ 3” trailer behind me.

On the roof of my 6’ tall pickup roof using a triple mag, a 6’ Skipshooter loses to a 9’ whip and 7’. (The 9’ hits 15’ and that’s just too tall even for Interstate. It also bends too much as do the top load verticals).

Is another foot it a big change once past 5’? No . . unless, like me, that faint distant signal with the warning is what drives one.

This is difficult to test as it’s situational.

My experience is that it’s highly desirable (I didn’t run over some men on the other side of a highway ridge crest pushing a vehicle off the road where other drivers didn’t hear the warning as being the most dramatic).

The pic of the Sirio is on a permanent mount a la Breedlove. Base load antenna seems easiest to live with on the roof of a personal vehicle.

Height is Might is the “rule” been easiest to observe in my experience versus design. Once height maximized (composite whips are cheap = 5’, 6’, 7’ Skipshooter brand) then design plays in for experiment.

— The exception to length has been the top hat-equipped Signal Engineering GR-45.

NMO30 or 34 with WD640 whip would be “best” so far as I can see. Height + ease of removal + longevity without coax plotting its own demise.

One can get beyond it but mount needs reinforcements. (5’ length minimum and height closest to 14’ given correct tuning).

IMG_4059.jpeg

The OP is on the right course.

A clue is that Skip has been so overpowering since approx October ‘22 that daylight hours (one past to one before sun rise & set) are such that his receiver should be jammed on AM-19 all day.

The men around me on the road aren’t receiving this interference continually, only sporadically. (Variety of reasons).

There are some days without Skip.
May be several weeks apart.

This difference in what’s received is marker for building my system to overcome the poor systems of others.

Hear, and Get Heard.

SSB (given a little fire in the wire) is the better test where geography can be tied to conditions with multiple participants to map-plot. Still can’t account for conditions where chance rules. (Test is an approximation).

At present — on AM — I’m hearing both England and Hawaii on the same day. From a craptastic plastic Freightliner fighting the winds across The Great Plains with 19 as my prayer flag.


HF is King of Comms.


.
 
Last edited:

slowmover

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
2,744
Location
Fort Worth
Quality is also in play. Tram was once a respected name. No more, as it’s now label for inferior materials & construction. Sirio a genuine step up (can still use TLC). Wilson somewhere in between (also sold off).

Argument about whether Laird or Larsen can be investigated on this site as NMO distinctly easiest recommendation in wishing success for others.

The Last Mile is for those placing life & limb highest.


Hearing Mile Marker location of black ice (etc) is par in that, thus, “high performance” is a stair-case leaving behind the floor of general expectations.

I want that last mile of combined RX/TX range as warnings aren’t automatic much less well-defined.

.
 
Last edited:

slowmover

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
2,744
Location
Fort Worth

IMG_0670.jpeg

I’ve had one 20+ years.

On the road a little radio with power mic benefited appreciably (C29 or PC76; today a U980). Dual final radio will smoke ‘em (todays Q5/QT60).

Designed to go on rear windshield cowl of a full-size sedan or coupe

IMG_1285.jpeg

Needs a fair mount if fully exposed as would the current choice (7’ tall versus the GR45 5’ or so):

Predator K-1-27 (Quarter wave bends by half at 70-mph).

Triple or Quad mag unless one’s as nutz as I (shown with shorty 7’ base load city antenna — President Texas 1800 — versus mid coil or top hat for highway):

IMG_2345.jpeg

IMG_2294.jpeg
 
Last edited:

niceguy71

Active Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2023
Messages
657
Location
Massachusetts
I read a lot of reviews and watched people getting really good range on youtube video's with the Tram 3500. I bought one to try and love it! I had a K-40 magnet mount from 1989 that worked good in 1989...... but didn't seem to work too well last year ....so I bought a new one in July 2023.. I think the tram 3500 worked about the same.... the Tram 3500 was nice and springy and bent to go under my garage door a lot easier.....
using the Tram 3500 and an old President Grant cb (12 watts AM 27 SSB) on AM I can quite regularly talk a couple towns away .... many times in the evening 20 plus miles on AM.......and on SSB I can generally get 30 to 50 miles ( mostly talking to base stations) and it does skip all over the country.. I'm sure their are better antenna's.. but I really like that Tram 3500.....
it didn't do overly great when I first put it on, but I think I was testing it in the daytime with terrible conditions I only got 3 or 3.5 miles...... this was before I did a lot of RF bonding on my Pick-up truck ( thanks to the suggestions of some great guys on this forum)
I can't swear to it that it made a difference but I almost always get a trucker answering my radio checks ( 5 to 10 miles away) after I did the RF bonding.... and I can always hear people talking far off.... before the RF bonding I never heard a sole.... but right now I wouldn't change my Tram 3500 for anything ...even though someday I hope to try that Stryker AR-10....

I bought another Quad 5 for the pick-up but that old president is kicking butt so the Quad 5 has been sitting in the box for a few months now
.......... I plan to do a youtube video on the range I get with the President and Tram 3500 before I swap it out I'll do what this guy does and see what I get..... I asked this guy how he picked his route and he said he just drove... over hills..... through towns...... and forests under bridges.... some spots were low in a valley and some were high up on a hill.... but he just stopped every mile and did the test.... he got 18 miles with it on the trunk using only 4 watts.... it will be interesting what I get
 

slowmover

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
2,744
Location
Fort Worth
I’m always happy to link Farpoint Farms as he’s accessible via description.

How long it holds up is the reason many of us wouldn’t recommend the brand.

Where it’s mounted

Total physical length

Are factors it shares with similar size/type. Quality is the divisor.

Below is examination of high quality. But you’ll see that this can be given TLC. That’s also recommended for yours to ensure longest life.


Performance sometimes declines gradually.

.
 

niceguy71

Active Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2023
Messages
657
Location
Massachusetts
I’m always happy to link Farpoint Farms as he’s accessible via description.
I chat with him from time to time.... the 18 mile tram 3500 video is 6 years old and he say's it still going strong!.. but he tried the new Stryker AR 10 last year and it was much better than his Tram... so now he has me wondering if i should try something new.

my Tram 3500 is a cheap antenna. and I don't think it will last for years and years .... but I bought 4 of them!!! some I got for $41 bucks with free shipping
the last one i bought I got it for $31 and free shipping!!!! it came in three days too!

good video SlowMover... I LOVE silicone for waterproofing and do a lot of it.... it's a good Idea I think I'll do that sometime.
 

niceguy71

Active Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2023
Messages
657
Location
Massachusetts
I chat with him from time to time.... the 18 mile tram 3500 video is 6 years old and he say's it still going strong!.. but he tried the new Stryker AR 10 last year and it was much better than his Tram... so now he has me wondering if i should try something new.

my Tram 3500 is a cheap antenna. and I don't think it will last for years and years .... but I bought 4 of them!!! some I got for $41 bucks with free shipping
the last one i bought I got it for $31 and free shipping!!!! it came in three days too!

good video SlowMover... I LOVE silicone for waterproofing and do a lot of it.... it's a good Idea I think I'll do that sometime.
FYI I understand Tram no longer makes the Tram 3500 and did away with them last year.... they sold what they had to discount houses all over the place that are selling them for practically nothing.... I know that Wilson K-40 and Tram are now all owned by the same company??? and the Wilson 1000 K-40 and Tram 3500 were all using the same basic technology so I can see the parent company getting rid of one of them.... going to be sad when I can't get a replacement tram 3500 someday.
 

slowmover

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
2,744
Location
Fort Worth
IMO, one of versions of the SIRIO 5k is the one to have.


IMG_1394.jpeg

A BREEDLOVE permanent mount is the performance step-up.

Otherwise, NMO34b & WD640 whip would be less obtrusive, maybe last longest; would give up little.

.
 
Last edited:
Top