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Rebanding has begun on Motorola trunked systems

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DaveIN

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At least two systems have been discovered to be using newly rebanded frequencies and no longer are being trunk scanned correctly using the current trunking scanners.

Albertville, Alabama: http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=1462
Vacaville, CA: http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=778

Please report in if you are seeing this on your local Motorola analog or mixed mode system.

If you can log the system using UniTrunker or Trunker it would also be helpful to the cause.

Here are some resources:
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Rebanding
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/
http://www.800ta.org/content/800Mhz/call_sign.asp
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Trunked_Radio_Decoders
 

UPMan

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Let me add that you should also contact me directly by email (not PM) if you are affected by such a system.

popitz@uniden.com

I will also be monitoring this thread closely.
 

northzone

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Just to make something clear, the database for Vacaville has not been updated yet. The 860 freqs are no longer in use, only the 850s. I have submitted this info to the DB.

PS: Database has been updated.
 
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loumaag

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northzone said:
Just to make something clear, the database for Vacaville has not been updated yet. The 860 freqs are no longer in use, only the 850s. I have submitted this info to the DB.
I have updated the TRS to indicate the use of only the 850 MHz frequencies. Someone with Trunker or UniTrunker needs to look at this system and report the LCN's being used. Oddly the license still shows the old 20K channel allotment.
 

WayneH

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I've moved this over to the Motorola forum as it's only specific to their systems.

I've had the opportunity to analyze Vacaville's system. I know what's changed but am not releasing anything yet. I will say that systems like Vacaville can still be tracked with a PRO-96 and radios of its generation because of the customizable tables. So additionally the GRE will also work.

ETA: clarification on using tables for RS and GRE radios.
 
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scannerfreak

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wayne_h said:
I've moved this over to the Motorola forum as it's only specific to their systems.

I've had the opportunity to analyze Vacaville's system. I know what's changed but am not releasing anything yet. I will say that systems like Vacaville can still be tracked with a PRO-96 and radios of its generation.

That is certainly good news :)
 

UPMan

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UPMan said:
Let me add that you should also contact me directly by email (not PM) if you are affected by such a system.

popitz@uniden.com

I will also be monitoring this thread closely.
I find I must restate the following.

Please don't email me with general "how do I use my scanner" questions, or similar. These questions are best handled on these boards because:

1) You'll generally get a faster answer. (I don't generally watch that address on weekends, for example)
2) You'll sometimes get a better answer (I'm not where you are.)
3) The answer you get will benefit everyone on the boards.
4) You keep me free to work on trivial things like rebanding updates, performance updates, new models, etc.
 

AlanTilles

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Oh, many more systems than that are on their new NPSPAC frequencies. The State of Colorado has completed about three quarters of their many transmitter sites.
 

northzone

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AlanTilles said:
Oh, many more systems than that are on their new NPSPAC frequencies. The State of Colorado has completed about three quarters of their many transmitter sites.
You are missing the whole issue. The Colorado system is a true P25 system so tracking is not an issue. It is the analog or mix-mode systems that will require firmware updates. That is really what this thread is about. True P25 systems will track without any radio changes.
 
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jakegday

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not sure if this is the proper place but i just saw it mentioned in here so i thought i'd ask; what makes a true p25 system TRUE?? is the p25 system in douglas county nebraska "true"?
 

43g70

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The Douglas County/OPPD Systems should track just fine. They are P25 control channel and voice.

It is the Sarpy County, a mixed mode Type II system, will probably not track after they reband.
 

loumaag

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chrishoerner said:
how about p-16 systems im in delaware we are schedules for rebanding over the summer not sure if we will upgrade to p-25 i have a pro 96
The move from a Motorola system to a Project 25 system has nothing to do with rebanding at all; in most cases that decision is budget based only. Please see the Wiki article explanation of rebanding for what and why rebanding is happening.

jakegday said:
not sure if this is the proper place but i just saw it mentioned in here so i thought i'd ask; what makes a true p25 system TRUE?? is the p25 system in douglas county nebraska "true"?
It really isn't, but see this Wiki article for explanations on system types dealing with P25 CAI and Project 25 systems. As to your question in regards to Douglas Co., I am guessing you are referring to the ORION system; as it says in the System Type line, it is a Project 25 Standard system.
 

ButchGone

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Re:

"True P25" systems use a 9600 baud control channel and are all digital, no analog. The systems that will cause scanner problems use a 3600 baud control channel and are mixed mode - the handle analog and digital traffic.
BG..
 

loumaag

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ButchGone said:
"True P25" systems use a 9600 baud control channel and are all digital, no analog. The systems that will cause scanner problems use a 3600 baud control channel and are mixed mode - the handle analog and digital traffic.
BG..
Butch, while your intention is good, your information is wrong and perpetuates this misunderstanding.

"True P25" systems do not have a 9600 baud control channel...the only TRS I am aware of that uses a 9600 baud CCh is an EDACS system. A Project 25 (and there is no such thing as a "True P25" system) system uses a 9600 bps control channel in a 4 level stream which results in a 4800 baud control channel. Since a Motorola system uses a 3600 bps, 2 level stream, indeed it is a 3600 baud stream.

A Project 25 TRS is a Project 25 TRS, there is no True or False to it. A Motorola TRS has nothing to do with a Project 25 TRS. This is why I directed the previous question to the Wiki where the correct information is located.
 

naSTI

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loumaag said:
Butch, while your intention is good, your information is wrong and perpetuates this misunderstanding.

"True P25" systems do not have a 9600 baud control channel...the only TRS I am aware of that uses a 9600 baud CCh is an EDACS system. A Project 25 (and there is no such thing as a "True P25" system) system uses a 9600 bps control channel in a 4 level stream which results in a 4800 baud control channel. Since a Motorola system uses a 3600 bps, 2 level stream, indeed it is a 3600 baud stream.

A Project 25 TRS is a Project 25 TRS, there is no True or False to it. A Motorola TRS has nothing to do with a Project 25 TRS. This is why I directed the previous question to the Wiki where the correct information is located.
I agree.

I believe, however, people should be using trade-names more to avoid exactly this kind of confusion:

*Smartnet and Smartzone are Motorola trademarks and denote their proprietary 3600 bps control channel trunking products.
*EDACS and OpenSky are M/A Com proprietary 9600 bps control channel trunking products.
*APCO 25 is the 9600 bps voice, data (or mixed voice/data) standard by which both Motorola and M/A COM --among others-- are building and selling as an interoperability alternative to their proprietary systems. Meaning other radio manufacturer's radios can be used on the system, unlike before, where you were locked with the trunked system vendor's radio hardware.

Although, you are technically correct, pointing out that APCO 25 has a 9600bps symbol rate, but only effectively uses 4800 bits of data because it is a 4-level signal, will only serve to confuse others even more, since in most drafts, scanner and radio companies all refer to APCO 25 as a 9600 bps system.

People simply fail to realize that there is an APCO 25 voice protocol and an APCO 25 control channel protocol, and that you can use the voice standard without the trunking. They also don't realize companies like Motorola will mix their own trunking environment with APCO 25 (or Astro 25, as they call it). Which is not the same as this notion of "True APCO 25" which ButchGone was referring to.
 

loumaag

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naSTI said:
I agree.
...
People simply fail to realize that there is an APCO 25 voice protocol and an APCO 25 control channel protocol, and that you can use the voice standard without the trunking. They also don't realize companies like Motorola will mix their own trunking environment with APCO 25 (or Astro 25, as they call it). Which is not the same as this notion of "True APCO 25" which ButchGone was referring to.
I also agree. :D

That is why I posted a link that explains all of what you brought out in the above quote. BTW, in regard to Motorola, Astro 25 is the marketing term they use for Project 25 systems. Astro is what they now use for their proprietary system using P25 CAI (since they no longer market VSELP.)

I also agree with you that a Moto TRS should be called by what it is (Smartzone, etc.); and Project 25 TRS is ... well a Project 25 TRS. :wink:
 

kennethj215

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Rebanding

The city of Opelika, Al. just went thru a rebanding last week. Can anyone tell me the best way to find the new frequencies? I am hearing that they moved to the 900Mhz range. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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