• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Receiver claims to decode basic NXDN/DMR privacy security.

Status
Not open for further replies.

SCPD

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
65,126
Location
Virginia
ADCR25_PRO2. APCO25/ DMR/NXDN(IDAS/NEXEDGE)/YAESU FUSION RECEIVER. Unit price $179.95. Free shipping WORLDWIDE! - 6

Noticed this stand alone receiver board which claims to decode basic privacy (encryption) on DMR and NXDN/iDas. Wonder how many will attempt to purchase and have it shipped into the USA. Guess this moot the point on it can't be done but anyone out there overseas use this? I have no use for something like this but makes me wonder how many will try it. And yes i am aware it is a serious crime in Canada, US, MX to decode secured comms weak or not. Very surprises soneone would openly create it.
 

Chronic

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
310
I didn't see anywhere that it received encrypted comms . receiving DMR, NXDN, Fusion or P25 is not illegal . Decoding Digital comms is very different than decoding encryption .
 

SCPD

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
65,126
Location
Virginia
I didn't see anywhere that it received encrypted comms . receiving DMR, NXDN, Fusion or P25 is not illegal . Decoding Digital comms is very different than decoding encryption .
DMR MOTO BASIC PRIVACY AUTO DECRYPTION WITH KEY VALUE DETECTION!

NXDN (IDAS/NEXEDGE) DESCRAMBLER! -From the site
 

diskmonger

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
418
Location
Michigan
Basic privacy in MOTO TRBO is like guessing a PL tone on an analog frequency, the weak encryption algorithm is a joke.

This is old news, the ADCR25 board has been able to do this for awhile now.
 

SCPD

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
65,126
Location
Virginia
While formats as ADP and others have been exposed in weaknesses it surprises me someone is selling a device capable of actually decoding privacy openly as it falls under many countries laws in which it is illegal. While I read and was aware in various articles of research studies in past done software and higher end computers were reported capable I did not know someone made a actual basic receiver board that will do it with little effort to the user. This makes one wonder how secure other formats are (not digital but privacy) really has become and if receivers such as above can be made what else have they made. This piece of hardware will open eyes and sales pitches in the mission critical gear world.
 

ElroyJetson

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2002
Messages
2,440
Location
Florida, where you wish you were!
NXDN basic privacy is NOT encryption, it is basic privacy that alters only a few bits in the data stream. It is analogous to having a different PL tone.

NXDN has encryption options. And they are encryption, called encryption, and not called basic privacy.


Sorry, not even a very strong personal computer today has the power to decrypt even "weak" 40 bit ADP type encryption quickly enough to be useful. It'd still take hours to find a single unknown key using today's latest and greatest hardware in a high end PC. Which would be useful if your targets never rolled their keys.

Now if you had a large Beowulf cluster to work with, you might be able to break 40 bit enc in a matter of a minute or less. It'd still demand that all the individual computers be built to a high specification and thus have a high cost associated with them.

And after all that, you'd know what the janitor at your local hospital was doing. Big deal.
 

mrscanner2008

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
246
Location
Quebec, Quebec Canada
I have these board and if you don't already have the encryption keys, you can't decrypt.

the board only permit to enter encryption keys to listens, if you don't have key, this board will not find it.
 

jcardani

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
1,331
Location
Orlando, FL & Ocean City, NJ
Like Elroy said. Basic Privacy is just that, basic. It's just a simple XOR against certain data. No real encryption is done. There are only 255 different combinations so it won't take long for someone to try one until it works.
 

RayAir

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
1,734
Ex of a simple xor of text data:

0a 00 54 00 68 00 61 00 6e 00 6b

5468616e6b converted to ASCII = Thank

Now, take the plaintext and perform xor to give ciphertext:

Pt- 54 68 61 6e 6b
XOR fc fc fc fc fc
Ct- a8 94 9d 92 97

It's an easy and insecure way to obscure information.

Anyway, Motorola specifically states in their system planner that BP can easily be defeated and is only intended to stop casual listening. Just a modern day version of fixed frequency inversion, so I don't think anyone would be worried over this ADCR receiver.
 

Attachments

slicerwizard

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Messages
5,338
Location
Toronto, Ontario
While formats as ADP and others have been exposed in weaknesses it surprises me someone is selling a device capable of actually decoding privacy openly
Motorola does it. Their radios decode the various privacy schemes.


NXDN basic privacy is NOT encryption, it is basic privacy that alters only a few bits in the data stream. It is analogous to having a different PL tone.
Not true. NXDN scrambling uses a keystream that affects all voice payload bits. No idea where you get your information.


Sorry, not even a very strong personal computer today has the power to decrypt even "weak" 40 bit ADP type encryption quickly enough to be useful. It'd still take hours to find a single unknown key using today's latest and greatest hardware in a high end PC. Which would be useful if your targets never rolled their keys.
(*)


Now if you had a large Beowulf cluster to work with, you might be able to break 40 bit enc in a matter of a minute or less. It'd still demand that all the individual computers be built to a high specification and thus have a high cost associated with them.
(*)


And after all that, you'd know what the janitor at your local hospital was doing. Big deal.
Yep, no PDs around here using ADP or NXDN scrambling. None in the U.S. either. Right?

(*) You obviously have an agenda - you're claiming ADP isn't that easy/quick to crack or worth the trouble. Your statements are all misleading - sounds like you're listening to some weak encryption these days and don't want to lose access. Carry on...


I have these board and if you don't already have the encryption keys, you can't decrypt.

the board only permit to enter encryption keys to listens, if you don't have key, this board will not find it.
Apparently not any longer.

"DMR MOTO BASIC PRIVACY AUTO DECRYPTION WITH KEY VALUE DETECTION!"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top