• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Recomendations for legally learning and training on motorola RSS/CPS

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prcguy

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I could ask why an individual not employed by Toyota or an authorized Toyota dealer would need to change oil or spark plugs in a Toyota product?

Because we want to and know how to and don't want to pay someone else for something we are fully capable of doing.

I'm quite confused reading this thread? Why does an individual not employed by Motorola or a Motorola authorized reseller/install repair shop need to program commercial professional radios??
 

paulears

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If you have a radio licence of any kind, you can do anything you like within the terms of the licence - that's fine. If you can get the programming software, to programme all your available frequencies, that too is OK in my book. If a ham wanted a radio programmed onto ham frequencies because they didn't have the software/hardware, I'd do that. I don't think any of us have a beef with that. If a ham wanted ham channels but also wanted Coastguard channel 0 - I'd think. I'd probably programme the receive channel, but I'd be reluctant to programme the transmit one.

I did programme a friend of a friend's taxi radio with the common ham channels, which he could use when bored and waiting as he was a ham.

Other than those kind of things, I don't do it.
 

JimD56

KO9JAD/Fire Lieutenant/Paramedic
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Ok, let me re-phrase. I'm quite confused as to why an individual would need programming access to a "commercial/professional system", whether conventional, trunked, P25, etc. Not talking HAM's or individuals employed by that particular "system", like me. Both my personal use UHF XTS3000's was programmed for FREE by my employer's Radio Shop because I am part of that commercial/professional/government "system" in which I have privileges to transmit on.
I absolutely agree with other posters in being able to save a buck and do their own programming for DMR, Ham, and other Non-professional or non-government systems. You want to program your XPR5550 for DMR great, but once you want to program an APX7700 that requires a "radio ID" and rights imprinted within the system, like my dual conventional/trunked system in my government agency, that ain't good, use a scanner.
I'm definitely not an expert and enjoy learning from you all on all the different forums.
 

mmckenna

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Ok, let me re-phrase. I'm quite confused as to why an individual would need programming access to a "commercial/professional system",
By "system" do you mean actually accessing the trunked system controllers and making changes?
Answer = NO. The only ones who would be permitted to do that would be the system administrator.

If by "system" you mean programming radios that are active on a trunked system, the answer is "maybe".
I do not allow my end users to mess with their own radios. Far too complex and easy to mess things up, even for hams. I hold the only systems keys that will allow the radios to be accessed, and I keep a read & write password on the radios to prevent some knuckle head from attempting to mess with them.

Small agencies may have someone on staff who's job may include adding/changing radios. Our PD uses a VHF conventional system, I have given programming software and programing cable to one of the sergeants (who happens to be a ham) so he can make MDC1200 ID changes himself. That takes some load off me since I'm not running down there all the time every time someone swaps radios. He doesn't mess with the channel/frequency programming on any of the radios, he leaves that to me.


Both my personal use UHF XTS3000's was programmed for FREE by my employer's Radio Shop because I am part of that commercial/professional/government "system" in which I have privileges to transmit on.
Some shops will do that. Some won't. If you get it done for free, then enjoy. Most commercial shops will charge bench rates. Some government shops will do it if you know the right people, or flat out refuse. It varies from place to place.

Ideally I'd not want anyone messing with the radios. It's way too easy to fat finger something and cause a radio to not work correctly. When someones life is on the line, I'm not willing to let that happen. I take responsibility for the radios, and I don't readily trust anyone else to do that.

As for people that are public safety AND ham, then that's an individual thing. I would not do that with any of our agency radios. If someone happens to be a ham, then they need to have their own ham radio. If they figure out how to program it themselves, then I can't always stop that, and any mistakes are on them.

I absolutely agree with other posters in being able to save a buck and do their own programming for DMR, Ham, and other Non-professional or non-government systems. You want to program your XPR5550 for DMR great, but once you want to program an APX7700 that requires a "radio ID" and rights imprinted within the system, like my dual conventional/trunked system in my government agency, that ain't good, use a scanner.
I'm definitely not an expert and enjoy learning from you all on all the different forums.
Yeah, I think you initially confused us.
I'd not allow -anyone- access to the trunked system or any of the radios on that system. Way too easy to screw up a trunked system, and no ham, no matter the license class, should be in there messing around. As for the radios, thankfully system keys and read/write passwords keep that under control, but like I said in an earlier post, it doesn't stop hams/hobbyists from asking.
 

kv6o

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I never understood why a ham would want to run something like an APX handheld on the ham bands. They are brutally expensive, hard to program (if you're not familiar with them) and complete overkill for needing 2M FM service. Give me a proper ham radio with a VFO and easy access to splits, reverse, PL tones, etc. any day - much more user friendly and useful!

Learning is one thing. But once you do, you'll probably realize a Kenwood D-700 mobile is a LOT friendlier to use in the ham service than an APX7500. :)
 
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mmckenna

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I never understood why a ham would want to run something like an APX handheld on the ham bands. They are brutally expensive, hard to program (if you're not familiar with them) and complete overkill for needing 2M FM service.
I don't have, or need, an APX. Unlikely I'll spend money on something like that until they are long EOL'd and available cheap on the used market.
Some of us have commercial radios since we work on/manage commercial/public safety systems. I have no need for an amateur only radio. Yeah, VFO is nice, but most modern commercial radios have several hundred (if not thousand) channel capacity, so programing in all the local repeaters and simplex channels is easy enough. I just have one zone set aside for the ham stuff. Never been an issue, but I don't make random ham contacts very often. Usually it's talking to family or friends on established simplex frequencies or repeaters.
In addition to my personal radios, I have my work radios. All my VHF and UHF work radios have some ham stuff in them, just gives me something to do if I'm stuck somewhere waiting, sitting somewhere eating lunch, or otherwise have some time to kill.

But I can absolutely understand what you are saying.
Some hams have the disposable income to afford radios like that. Nothing wrong with it.
Some just enjoy the better performance and different feature set of the commercial gear.


And then there's the whackers. But we won't talk about them….
 

vagrant

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I never understood why a ham would want to run something like an APX handheld on the ham bands. They are brutally expensive, hard to program (if you're not familiar with them) and complete overkill for needing 2M FM service.
Agreed on the 2 meter FM. I use a VHF/UHF APX 7000xe but rarely use it for FM, as we have plenty of P25 repeaters in my area. Is the 7000xe brutally expensive, hell yeah. It was given to me though. Still, I have purchased an XTL5000 for under $500 and 3000 & 5000 XTS FPP handhelds both with accessories/batteries and an XTVA for $260. A bargain price. I don't need the 3000, so I will probably sell that, or give it to my local club for the radio trailer. They get all my stuff when I'm dead anyways. Might as well start early. ;) (It's a good club that actually does public service, training to bring new hams into the fun, as well as camping/radio get-togethers to share and compare.)

Learning is one thing. But once you do, you'll probably realize a Kenwood D-700 mobile is a LOT friendlier to use in the ham service than an APX7500. :)
For some, perhaps many, it is all about learning and understanding the radio art. Which I believe is the point of the thread. For me it is about experimenting first hand and understanding the differences in the modes as well as their strengths and weakness. This means programming too. I have also tested a friends Motorola DTR-700's and Icom's IC-SAT100 handhelds for the same reason. I can tell you that my earlier Motorola "experimenting" came in handy when the club was given a Quantar by the local PD.
 

kayn1n32008

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I never understood why a ham would want to run something like an APX handheld on the ham bands. They are brutally expensive, hard to program (if you're not familiar with them) and complete overkill for needing 2M FM service. Give me a proper ham radio with a VFO and easy access to splits, reverse, PL tones, etc. any day - much more user friendly and useful!

Learning is one thing. But once you do, you'll probably realize a Kenwood D-700 mobile is a LOT friendlier to use in the ham service than an APX7500. :)
I actually get along just fine with out a VFO.

My XPR5550 has in excess of 30 zones in it. Each zone has its own scan list. Oh single button temporary nuisance delete. That’s something hammy gear doesn’t do.

I also have 16 character alpha display. Plus my zones are named as well. All my buttons are more or less, freely programmable, something else ham gear doesn’t do. Oh and reverse burst for PL/DPL turn off code. I much prefer talk around to reverse. Better technology is way ahead of anything offered in the ham industry. Bluetooth accessories are better too.

While it takes time to initially program a LMR radio, it is entirely worth the effort(imho) for the vastly improved quality.

Far superior receiver, efficient transmitter(~4a @ 25w).

Don’t even get me started on the garbage accessories that permeates ham portables.

I know this will get the hams going, but I don’t care. The other advantage of modern digital LMR gear is AES256. Its legal for me to use(encryption in general) it where I live on ham frequencies. For Motorola P25 gear, the KFDTool is a in expensive alternative to a Motorola KVL.
 
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kv6o

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I carry an APX8000 for work, and have an APX7500 in the car. I would MUCH rather a proper ham radio when on ham frequencies - much easier to use and dynamically program. If a repeater's PL changes, or I want to listen to the input on a repeater, easy peasy.

To each their own!
 

prcguy

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I've never understood why someone would want to run a Ferrari or Maserati, or even an H1 Hummer. They are brutally expensive, hard to work on and complete overkill for driving on city streets. Give me a proper Ford with automatic transmission and easy access to the rear view mirror, drink holder, etc. any day - much more user friendly and useful!

Some people are happy with ordinary and mundane. Some are not.

Personally I am not.

hummer.JPG


I never understood why a ham would want to run something like an APX handheld on the ham bands. They are brutally expensive, hard to program (if you're not familiar with them) and complete overkill for needing 2M FM service. Give me a proper ham radio with a VFO and easy access to splits, reverse, PL tones, etc. any day - much more user friendly and useful!

Learning is one thing. But once you do, you'll probably realize a Kenwood D-700 mobile is a LOT friendlier to use in the ham service than an APX7500. :)
 

ladn

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I never understood why a ham would want to run something like an APX handheld on the ham bands. They are brutally expensive, hard to program (if you're not familiar with them) and complete overkill for needing 2M FM service.
For the same reason that some folks drive Yugos and others drive Bentleys or some hams use Baofengs and others use Icoms.
 

kv6o

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I've never understood why someone would want to run a Ferrari or Maserati, or even an H1 Hummer. They are brutally expensive, hard to work on and complete overkill for driving on city streets. Give me a proper Ford with automatic transmission and easy access to the rear view mirror, drink holder, etc. any day - much more user friendly and useful!

Some people are happy with ordinary and mundane. Some are not.

Personally I am not.

View attachment 87174
To each their own. If that thing just picks up groceries and runs to Home Depot - or worse - is a garage queen - then I really don't understand. If you use it, then gerat! I had a contractor role one off a mountain a few years back, he's lucky to be alive - not much in the way of air bags and other safety features. He bought another one, and it was nice for getting thru snow at 11,000 feet. But a Polaris with tracks was better, and cheaper. Right tool for the job.

If I had to drive an H1 every day to work, that would suck, IMHO, wrong tool for the job. I have to carry an APX every day for work, and it's great as a work radio, sucks as a ham radio. Why someone would want an APX for ham only use is beyond me. Just my opinion. :D
 
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prcguy

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The H1 drives on the street like a 4 wheel drive Ferrari, yes its wide but its nimble and a blast to zip through traffic and even picking up family in crowded LAX traffic. I couldn't wait to get up and go to work in that thing. Off road it is a blast but it gets boring going out with other 4 wheel drive groups. I would wait at the back of the pack of Jeeps, CJs and others for them to run up the side of a mountain on switchback roads, then when they got to the top I would make a bee line straight up the side of the mountain. Or I would go up an impossible short hill that people have only gone down and one of the others would try, blowing out a universal joint part way up and I would end up winching their disabled vehicle up the hill.

Using an APX or XG-100P or MBITR or Harris Falcon III or similar for amateur uses is overkill and silly to some but its fun. Why condemn someone else's fun?

If I had to drive an H1 every day to work, that would suck, IMHO, wrong tool for the job. I have to carry an APX every day for work, and it's great as a work radio, sucks as a ham radio. Why someone would want an APX for ham only use is beyond me. Just my opinion. :D
 

vagrant

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For me, an APX is a wonderful tool and I use P25 quite often. My other newer ham handhelds (Yaesu FT3 & Kenwood D74A) have only recently caught up with some of the features it offers. I definitely do not think my VHF/UHF 7000xe sucks. Like most things once you get used to programming it, and learn how to get things done with FPP (Front Panel Programming), one realizes how easy they are to use. Adding a repeater now and then is definitely not an issue, especially with FPP.

Everyone's environment is different. I would not enjoy driving an H1 in single lane neighborhoods in Japan. Hell, it would not fit on some streets, but it is fun to drive in California. My friend has the civilian version of the H1 and it is wide, but I drove it and got used to it. She drives it everyday. Hell, I use to drive a Class A motor home as a teen around town when a car was in the shop. You always had to watch the width, height and your caboose when making turns. It was only 30 something feet, so it wasn't bad compared to the 40+ foot; you just need bigger side mirrors. :D

Basically, one learns by doing and gets comfortable with it. Overkill for some, absolutely not a problem for others. Training and successfully learning to program, tune and operate Motorola gear seems like a good idea to me. Look at what we would be left with for the amateur radio community without a Motorola repeater, handheld or mobile. In many ways used Moto equipment is comparable to amateur radio pricing. (Not so much on the APX 7000/8000 stuff at the moment.)

I venture more than five feet beyond my property line, so maybe it is just me. I do enjoy having good equipment when I am outside cellular service and hours away by foot to a main road.
 

prcguy

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I currently drive a Toyota Tundra and can say an H1 Hummer is a lot easier to drive and park than a Tundra. I've had my Tundra for a good 10yrs and still have trouble in parking lots with its tall hood and long wheelbase, I usually need a 5 point turn to get into a tight parking space. Not with an H1, if you have only an inch on each side between cars you just turn, whip in the spot and and you can judge the space around it very easily. Then you climb out the window because there is no space in between cars to open the door....

Getting back to radios and software, I like to experience many things and enjoy learning how stuff works. The last thing I need is another radio but I'm curious how some perform and program so I might occasionally buy a radio just to see how it works knowing it will be gone shortly after I've mastered it. I recently got Motorola Astro P25 CPS programming software and thought I would try out an XTS-2500 to see how they work and program. I didn't need another radio but I was curious. A couple months later I have four XTS-2500s in all different bands. I don't need them but they sure work well and I'm getting really good with the programming software. Its all about the experience and getting enjoyment out of whatever you can.

For me, an APX is a wonderful tool and I use P25 quite often. My other newer ham handhelds (Yaesu FT3 & Kenwood D74A) have only recently caught up with some of the features it offers. I definitely do not think my VHF/UHF 7000xe sucks. Like most things once you get used to programming it, and learn how to get things done with FPP (Front Panel Programming), one realizes how easy they are to use. Adding a repeater now and then is definitely not an issue, especially with FPP.

Everyone's environment is different. I would not enjoy driving an H1 in single lane neighborhoods in Japan. Hell, it would not fit on some streets, but it is fun to drive in California. My friend has the civilian version of the H1 and it is wide, but I drove it and got used to it. She drives it everyday. Hell, I use to drive a Class A motor home as a teen around town when a car was in the shop. You always had to watch the width, height and your caboose when making turns. It was only 30 something feet, so it wasn't bad compared to the 40+ foot; you just need bigger side mirrors. :D

Basically, one learns by doing and gets comfortable with it. Overkill for some, absolutely not a problem for others. Training and successfully learning to program, tune and operate Motorola gear seems like a good idea to me. Look at what we would be left with for the amateur radio community without a Motorola repeater, handheld or mobile. In many ways used Moto equipment is comparable to amateur radio pricing. (Not so much on the APX 7000/8000 stuff at the moment.)

I venture more than five feet beyond my property line, so maybe it is just me. I do enjoy having good equipment when I am outside cellular service and hours away by foot to a main road.
 

kv6o

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Using an APX or XG-100P or MBITR or Harris Falcon III or similar for amateur uses is overkill and silly to some but its fun. Why condemn someone else's fun?
Not condemning, just expressing an opinion. I lived in SoCal for a decade and saw all sorts of lifted pickups that never saw dirt. Seemed to be a thing there. Never understood it. :)

I have drive everything from motorcycles to fire trucks, and have spent plenty of time in H1's. No desire to spend any more time. :cool:
 
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