Recommendations for 10m - 40m indoor antenna? ...

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speedmaster

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I'm a pretty new ham, and very new to HF.

For a couple weeks I had a dipole strong along a wooden fence in our yard and it worked pretty well.

But I would like to consider an indoor antenna. I'm thinking about something I could place in the rafters of the garage, or crawl space/attic of the house. I'd be willing to give up a little performance for the ability to keep an antenna out of the weather.

What kind of affordable options are there for an antenna that could handle say 10m - 40m in a crawl space?

Thanks very much in advance,
Chris
 

LtDoc

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Chris,
First, how 'large' is your attic(s), what kind of 'room' is there to hold an antenna? That's going to determine what possibilities you have.
- 'Doc
 

speedmaster

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Chris,
First, how 'large' is your attic(s), what kind of 'room' is there to hold an antenna? That's going to determine what possibilities you have.
- 'Doc

Thanks, Doc. I'll try to measure tonight. The area over the garage is maybe 20ft x 15ft.
 

kb2vxa

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Perhaps your best bet would be using one or more depending on your choice of mobile antennas over a ground plane in the attic. That choice of course depends on vertical space vs. the length of the antenna(s). Oh, you could cover the floor with radials for the highest efficiency if the attic isn't so stuffed with junk you can't move around up there.

"I'd be willing to give up a little performance for the ability to keep an antenna out of the weather."

Mobile antennas are made for any kind of weather nature can throw at them so if you can't fit one in the attic the yard will do nicely. You don't have to leave it there, using ordinary wire for radials you can roll the whole thing up and put it away when not in use. On the other hand a grounding stake will do although you'll sacrifice some efficiency, still you'll put out a decent signal.

Here are two different ham's antennas, the one in the attic is a commercial impress your friends in the "Super Bowl" CB mobile used on 10M. The other is a home brew multi-band completely portable antenna that won the war against the HOA Nazis.
 
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N1BHH

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Consider an outdoor antenna, as indoor antennas fall victim to building construction materials. Your outdoor antenna will work much better. I once was in an apartment where I used the rain gutters as my HF antenna. I connected them together with wire, and ran another wire to my tuner and it worked fine. My ground was a number of ground rods and a few varying lengths of scrap wire radiated out from my station. It worked very well for me on 80-10.

At the time I had a fan dipole for 10, 15 and 20 in the attic which did a fair job on those bands, but I only used CW on those bands and would work DX every night I got home from work.

With lots of trees around you can operate a stealth antenna. Despite the fact that I had tall trees at this particular apartment I still had a trap dipole up for 80 and 40 meters and it blended in perfectly with the trees. You couldn't see it unless you looked hard for it. Also the RG-6 was buried from the base of the tree to the shack and played really well.

My present antenna at my current location is an off center fed dipole which fits the dimensions I have for hanging the feed line back to my shack, straight down from the feed point. It covers all bands quite well and with my antenna tuner I am able to make my radio happy on 15 meter where most OCFD's typically has high SWR. Feed point is at 45 feet and I work local and DX and never have any worries.
 

zz0468

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Before you seriously consider an indoor antenna, what power level are you planning on running? There are several issues you'll run into, not considering the performance hit you get with an indoor antenna.

One is RF exposure levels. There are online calculators to estimate whether or not the level of RF inside the house will exceed guidelines.

The another issue is related, interference to devices inside the house. A lot of consumer electronic devices are incapable of proper operation in a high RF field.

You can also expect the receive noise floor to be higher because of closer proximity to noise generating devices.

Weather exposure is low in the priority list for needing to move an HF antenna inside. What is it that worries you about the weather?
 

prcguy

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If an indoor antenna is the only option, and if your roof construction is transparent to RF, I would recommend something similar to what Warren shows in is first pic in post 4 but taken a bit further.

Based on some testing I've done with large HF Screwdriver antennas I would suggest the following, and when I say large Screwdriver I don't mean the POS Yaesu ATAS series or anything similar, I mean a real Screwdriver with 2" or larger coil. I like the Tarheel 100HP series but the Tarheel 75 or other large coil brand will probably work fine.

Line your attic floor with as much chicken wire or hardware cloth as possible and 20ft X 40ft is not too big.

Plant the large Screwdriver antenna mount, mast and coil in the middle where you have the most height available in the attic. You can use a cheap CB mirror mount screwed to the floor joists and overlap the chicken wire for grounding.

Instead of using the supplied whip make a large capacity hat out of wire and loosely staple to the rafters and connect to the top of the coil with a short wire. Make sure the capacity hat can move with the coil as it goes up and down.

A verbal picture from the floor or joists up would be chicken wire, mirror mount, mast, coil, short vertical wire then capacity hat wires heading out in several directions horizontally.

Most large Screwdriver antennas have about a 6ft whip and a capacity hat around 3ft dia with a 1ft vertical wire connecting the coil to the hat would be about right to simulate a 6ft whip to keep the antenna useable on 10m.

You can make the Screwdriver much more efficient by increasing the size of the capacity hat to say a few wires 10ft long (20ft dia) and a few as long as the width of the attic will allow. This will make the antenna resonate on the lower bands with much less coil inductance and increase the efficiency on lower bands but the antenna would no longer resonate on the highest bands like 10m.

I have a Tarheel 100HP on my truck and it works very well and on 40m its not that far down from the 94ft flat top dipole at 30ft on my house. When I run 500w mobile distant stations say the mobile is noticeably better and 500w is 7dB higher than 100w so my Tarheel mobile in my front yard is only a few dB down from a large outdoor dipole when working DX. This is partially due to the low angle radiation of the mobile compared to NVIS from my dipole.

You can get a lot more chicken wire ground plane in an attic compared to a vehicle and the attic is much higher off the ground so ground losses should probably be less than the same antenna mounted on a vehicle.

As zz said, an indoor antenna is way more susceptible to RF interference inside your home but if you have a lot of chicken wire laid out as a ground plane the RF exposure beneath what I described would be minimal, unless you have rooms adjacent to where the antenna is located.

Just my 2c and ymmv.
prcguy
 

hcpholder

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I once was in an apartment where I used the rain gutters as my HF antenna. I connected them together with wire, and ran another wire to my tuner and it worked fine. My ground was a number of ground rods and a few varying lengths of scrap wire radiated out from my station. It worked very well for me on 80-10.

That sounds like something I need to try! I was just turned down by the HOA in my apartment for an outside antenna of any shape, form, or fashion. Care to send me any additional info on how you made the connections to the gutters, without damaging them? KJ4TVL@arrl.net I just purchased an HF rig and it is killing me not to be able to use it! 73's
 

ab3a

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I sympathize. I used to live under an HOA and I hated it. Today, I live on a farm where I can do pretty much anything I want. I have nothing nice to say about nosy neighbors like that.

I have several options to suggest: First, there are some designs that hide shortened vertical antennas as a lawn umbrella, or a flagpole. If it does dual duty and nobody can tell the difference, then what they don't know won't hurt them. Just be sure to put in LOTS of radials and to bury them carefully so that nobody knows they're there.

Second, you can use thin magnet wire, plexiglass insulators. That can hide an antenna very well. The only problem there is that they're so invisible that even birds can't see them. The wire is often broken this way.

Third, you can always put an antenna on your car or truck. Go camping with your gear. Use it when you commute. If they don't like it, too bad. That's what I chose to do.
 

LtDoc

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An indoor antenna isn't the best choice you can make, but if that's your only option then it's certainly better than nothing.
Why is it a 'bad' thing? Several reasons (see above) ranging from things that can attenuate the received signal (roof, walls, etc.), to interference to/from electrical devices near that antenna (bunch of those!).
Weather usually isn't a consideration for antennas. If the thing is delicate enough to be affected by weather then it could stand to be 'beefed up' a bit, you know? Can weather affect an antenna? Sure, but usually not that much, that's both in performance and physical thingys.
Good luck.
- 'Doc
 

SCPD

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Indoors

If it was me, I would run horizontal dipoles. Going horizontal gives you the maximum antenna length, hence the best working antenna. And going horizontal cuts down on induced noise from power lines and what not. Home made dipoles are cheap to make. Put up just a 20 meter, see how it plays in the attic or garage. If it's working well, either throw up some more dipoles, or go with something like a G5RV Junior. I have a friend who ran a Jr. into a tuner, strung up in his attic. I think he had the bend the last 2' on each end down. It worked well for him. I know he worked into Europe and Asia with it
 
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