Red Box Video rental

[KB0VWG]

I noticed today outside of a stripes there was a Red box video rental machine and it had a magnetic mount antenna on top of the unit and it was connected in the back of the unit.

Anyone know what that might before?
Does it broadcast to the attendant of the machine that its low on movies, or give out some type of inventory to some sort of receiver? Does anyone know what frequency it could be on? I looked on the Fcc database and didn't find anything.
My assumption is that it would be in the 2.4ghz area.
Thanks
michael
kb0vwg
wqoi992

 

[kma371]

I've seen those too. Always wondered as well. I'm sure it's for inventory control though.

 

[n5ims]

Could be either cell phone or wifi. Cell is used when the box is located away from where wifi signals generally wouldn't be reliable (stand-alone kiosk) while wifi is used where the signal is reliable (inside of WalMart for example).

The link is used to validate the member's info, process the credit card info, and relay stock info back to the company. They also update the screen info using this link.

 

[kma371]

Could be either cell phone or wifi. Cell is used when the box is located away from where wifi signals generally wouldn't be reliable (stand-alone kiosk) while wifi is used where the signal is reliable (inside of WalMart for example).

The link is used to validate the member's info, process the credit card info, and relay stock info back to the company. They also update the screen info using this link.

If they are in a store, wouldn't hardwired DSL/Cable internet data be faster anyway? Seems cell data or wifi data would be more prone to be down

 

[N1XDS]

Probably a WIFI antenna or a 3G antenna.

The Red Box? - Security - Hak5 Forums

 

[kf5qgf]

I've noticed these too, they're too long to be 800 mhz, they'd be over full wave, maybe 400 mhz? i'd imagine they run in the 400 mhz range connected to some sort of internet port inside the building they're stationed at, then sent out over the internet. the use is obvious as you can rent a movie, and before you get home and check your bank online the info will already be processed by your bank.

kf5qgf

 

[mmckenna]

I think you guys are over thinking this.
While some RedBox units do use DSL connections, a lot of them are using 3G modems. We've got a number of ATM machines as well as vending machines here at work that are using the same antennas that I see on RedBox kiosks and I know for sure they are using cellular modems.

 

[mikegilbert]

I've noticed these too, they're too long to be 800 mhz, they'd be over full wave, maybe 400 mhz? i'd imagine they run in the 400 mhz range connected to some sort of internet port inside the building they're stationed at, then sent out over the internet. the use is obvious as you can rent a movie, and before you get home and check your bank online the info will already be processed by your bank.

kf5qgf

The wavelength of an 800mhz signal is ~38cm. An elevated feed Laird PCS antenna is 37 INCHES. Why would they make such a complicated 400mhz relay, when they can just use 3G / 4G data on a cell network?

EB8065C - Laird Technologies Elevated Feed Antenna ( 806-896MHz 5dB, Black)

 

[WayneH]

The antenna shown in the photo at the Hak5 site is a dual-band cellular antenna.

 

[SCPD]

Could this be a "handshake" antenna for whoever restocks the machine?

As the Red Box worker comes up to the machine, some terminal that he or she has with them has a wireless chat with the red box, and tells the person's terminal what video's the box is low on, what video's the box has an excess of, and to pull out and take to another box that's low, etc.

 

[kf5qgf]

I'm gonna take my scanner tomorrow night when i return the new hunger games and see if i can get a signal off of it and what freq it is. i doubt i can since the general consensus is that it's in the cellular band. I'd say it relays purchase data and receipts too as I've seen a 'thank you for using redbox' e-mail in my inbox by the time i make it home, and the redbox is only about 2 miles from my home.

kf5qgf

 

[tomfassett]

I work in thr POS (point of sale) business and I see things like this all over the place. Many alarm systems use them as well. I would bet mmckenna is correct and that they are cellular connections for credit card processing. The reason why so many of these systems do not "piggyback" on a locally available WiFi or DSL connection is security. We never let anyone connect a WiFi router or any other internet necessary technology to the POS system network. The reason is that the fines for having credit card numbers stolen off your POS system can put a company out of business (I've seen a couple of bars and restaurants run afoul of this issue). We never share a network connection with WiFi, AV or general internet access in any location we install a point of sale system in. I can guarantee that Redbox has the same policy. The other reason I would suspect is for ease of installation, network reliability and maintenance. The last thing they would want to have to do is send out a technician every time the internet link went down. If they were sharing a connection with, say, the convenience store where they were located they would have to work with the stores IT people as they would not be allowed to fool with a system that they do not support. My company runs into this as well. We have retrofitted a POS system only to find that the audio/visual system is sharing a network for downloading mp3s to the digital jukebox or DJ booth. When such a system goes down, the customer is not only losing money from lost credit card sales, but there is more finger pointing ("it's their system that caused the failure, no it theirs...") going on than fixing the problem. It is a lot easier, safer and cheeper to have your own dedicated communications pipeline.

Tom F

 

[57Bill]

I checked my local Red Box facility and could find no antennas at all.

 

[tomfassett]

With a number of alarm systems or ATMs I have seen lately, the cellular antenna is secured (hidden) inside the control box or cabinet. Perhaps the top mount antenna on the Redbox machines in question were installed outside for better reception in a fringe area. I would think having an antenna clearly visible on such a machine would not be the norm and is just asking for some idiot tennager to rip it off. That's my take on the thing.

Tom F

 

[Denverpilot]

The machine a few blocks from my house has the external antenna, and no shortage of cell towers of all varieties within a solid rock throwing distance.

 

[tomfassett]

They may be using a dedicated link as well instead of public access cellular systems.
Now you've got me all fired up--I'm going to start looking at those video rental boxes more closely. I still say they are using a dedicated link for credit card processing (unless they are irresponsible, which I wouldn't believe since they are quite successful). I've never noticed an antenna on one of the things but then I never looked for one either (and never even thought about it unitl you brought it up... ;- )

Tom F

 

[kb0nly]

The red box units around here are 50/50 wired and wireless. If there is no phone line available then they install a cellular modem in it and slap that antenna on the top. I have seen this in some smaller towns here where they have them in the local grocery store that doesn't even have internet and maybe one phone line max, then it generally has an antenna on the top. Places like the local Wal-Mart has no antenna on the top of it but you can also see a CAT5 cable coming down the wall along with the power conduit behind it so it doesn't need the cellular modem.

I stopped and chatted to one of the service guys at the machine once, not really to ask about the antenna but just some questions about their service, then i noticed the antenna and said "hey that thing even has an antenna on it, wifi?" He said no, thats the phone modem.

 

[kruser]

After reading this, I went to the only two red boxes around me and neither had a visible antenna on them. One did have a visible armored Cat3 cable running to it though. From this thread and how I saw the two here locally, I'd say they connect them via the cellular network or a standard POTS line if available. Using an 802.x wireless signal just seems too risky. Then again, some companies do things as cheap as possible so it may be up to the installers discretion and if an 802.x signal is available, they may use it.
My money is those with the antennas are using the cell network though as kb0nly said.

edit: In addition, they appear to be using the 2G or Edge network just like the power companies meters use and that is slated to be shutdown in 2015 so I guess those antennas may change at some time unless they change the radios to LTE in the same band.

 

[tomfassett]

I took a look at the unit in the local Fry's (Kroger) grocery store today and it also has a phone line running to it. Then I checked the box at the gas station where I get gas and it had the antenna on the outside just like the one Michael saw. I get gas there at least twice a week and walk by that thing every time. Shows you how observant I am... ;- )
Phone lines with modems are still common in the POS world. When we install a POS server, it usually has a backup modem for credit card processing if the internet goes down. Most of those little stand alone credit card machines at stores still use phone lines for credit card authorization (check out the connection--it is usually an RJ11 or RJ12 as opposed to an RJ45). Many small mom and pop operations may not have DSL or a cable modem but they always have a phone. That is why the older system is still in widespread use.
Many ATMs use phone communication as well. I recently wired a group of barbeque restaurants in the Phoenix area (for POS data) and they had me run a phone line to the demark for the ATM (as opposed to running it to the Cat5 patch panel). At the last one the didn't need the phone line as the ATM had a built in cellular connection. I'm sure the Redbox system uses the same technology.

Tom F

 

[Denverpilot]

Cable runs around back and goes through a punch out in the cabinet, no connector showing.

Store clerk's Winston's and a Bic lighter also stored on the back fan shelf. LOL.