I agree with a lot of what has been said, even over this part of the world the content on 2m / 70cm leaves a lot to be desired.
Paul
Ultralight DXing
Paul
Ultralight DXing
- Status
Great question. First off, if the only thing to do in Ham radio was to talk to a bunch of Phoenix repeater guys with starched shorts, I wouldn't be in the hobby. Yeah, the local 2m / 70 cm repeater stuff is about as boring as watching paint try, or grass growing. After getting my tech license I realized immediately that the local repeaters were cliquey, and too "stiff" and structured for my tastes. And really, a repeater is only supposed to be there for when you can't make a contact with simplex, and that brings up something much more interesting.
With simplex, you are forced to get more involved with the technical aspects of the hobby right off the bat. An HT with a rubber duck isn't going to get you far. You can get a good mobile setup going, and take a big step up from an HT, but you will find out quickly that a base installation can provide surprisingly good performance, and interesting challenges, especially with regard to installing and better yet, constructing antennas. I recommend getting a simple 2 meter radio to start with, and spending a little money on finding a way to get a decent antenna up as high as you can. All of the sudden the stiff formality (and boring conversations) heard on repeaters will be gone, and you can begin to talk to people, more as you would if just talking to someone on the street. Unlike what some will tell you, this isn't a bunch of "CB guys", who got into ham radio for the most part.
Here in Phoenix, a lot of guys listen / talk on local 2 meter simplex frequencies such as 146.52, 146.54, and 146.48. Don't let the informal environment and friendly personalities fool you, as some of these guys have been involved with ham radio for 40 - 50 years plus, and have a lot of knowledge to share. And learning from friendly folks in a relaxed environment is a lot more fun than the alternative. They also have something you rarely hear on repeaters, humor. It doesn't take long to catch the "HF bug", at which point you will find yourself looking for your first HF radio, and thinking about putting up a few "homebrew" wire antennas to get started. These local simplex guys will be happy to share their experiences, a few laughs, and plenty of friendly advice on equipment, antennas, etc. Many will give you the shirt off of their own back, and by this I mean they will stop by and help, share their time, help put an antenna up, lend an antenna analyzer, etc. The guys who regularly monitor 146.52 have lunch every week, and the group ranges from "Joe sixpack" types, to airline pilots and wealthy entrepreneurs. Everyone is friendly and helpful, always ready to help a new ham, always ready to stop a QSO and / or answer a break from a new ham on his first HT.
Once you enter the world of HF, you will be amazed at the possibilities. Talking around the world is really neat, and you can also just talk around the states too, if you like. On this last Sunday I talked to people in Scotland, South America, Africa, Australia, Canada, and many states here in the US.
Local repeater chit-chat, at least as it exists here in Phoenix, is the lowest common denominator in ham radio, so don't let that sometimes boring aspect of the hobby keep you from having fun as there is a lot more to amateur radio than talking on repeaters with an HT. I suspect that most who limit the hobby to that scope lose interest quickly. Remember, repeaters are supposed to be there for when simplex isn't possible with the person(s) that you need to contact. I don't mean to imply they don't have their place, or that there aren't some good guys on the repeaters, just that repeaters are just one small part of a large hobby. It just seems to me that some people get so wrapped up with repeaters that they miss out on some really cool things.
Enjoy your new hobby, and stop by 146.52 and throw out the call here and there. You might be pleasantly surprised to find friendly, helpful locals, who talk to each other, all over central Arizona, no repeater required.
With simplex, you are forced to get more involved with the technical aspects of the hobby right off the bat. An HT with a rubber duck isn't going to get you far. You can get a good mobile setup going, and take a big step up from an HT, but you will find out quickly that a base installation can provide surprisingly good performance, and interesting challenges, especially with regard to installing and better yet, constructing antennas. I recommend getting a simple 2 meter radio to start with, and spending a little money on finding a way to get a decent antenna up as high as you can. All of the sudden the stiff formality (and boring conversations) heard on repeaters will be gone, and you can begin to talk to people, more as you would if just talking to someone on the street. Unlike what some will tell you, this isn't a bunch of "CB guys", who got into ham radio for the most part.
Here in Phoenix, a lot of guys listen / talk on local 2 meter simplex frequencies such as 146.52, 146.54, and 146.48. Don't let the informal environment and friendly personalities fool you, as some of these guys have been involved with ham radio for 40 - 50 years plus, and have a lot of knowledge to share. And learning from friendly folks in a relaxed environment is a lot more fun than the alternative. They also have something you rarely hear on repeaters, humor. It doesn't take long to catch the "HF bug", at which point you will find yourself looking for your first HF radio, and thinking about putting up a few "homebrew" wire antennas to get started. These local simplex guys will be happy to share their experiences, a few laughs, and plenty of friendly advice on equipment, antennas, etc. Many will give you the shirt off of their own back, and by this I mean they will stop by and help, share their time, help put an antenna up, lend an antenna analyzer, etc. The guys who regularly monitor 146.52 have lunch every week, and the group ranges from "Joe sixpack" types, to airline pilots and wealthy entrepreneurs. Everyone is friendly and helpful, always ready to help a new ham, always ready to stop a QSO and / or answer a break from a new ham on his first HT.
Once you enter the world of HF, you will be amazed at the possibilities. Talking around the world is really neat, and you can also just talk around the states too, if you like. On this last Sunday I talked to people in Scotland, South America, Africa, Australia, Canada, and many states here in the US.
Local repeater chit-chat, at least as it exists here in Phoenix, is the lowest common denominator in ham radio, so don't let that sometimes boring aspect of the hobby keep you from having fun as there is a lot more to amateur radio than talking on repeaters with an HT. I suspect that most who limit the hobby to that scope lose interest quickly. Remember, repeaters are supposed to be there for when simplex isn't possible with the person(s) that you need to contact. I don't mean to imply they don't have their place, or that there aren't some good guys on the repeaters, just that repeaters are just one small part of a large hobby. It just seems to me that some people get so wrapped up with repeaters that they miss out on some really cool things.
Enjoy your new hobby, and stop by 146.52 and throw out the call here and there. You might be pleasantly surprised to find friendly, helpful locals, who talk to each other, all over central Arizona, no repeater required.
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rapidcharger
Member
I agree with the first two paragraphs. I'm not in AZ but simplex is definitely more fun, more of a challenge and nobody can kick you off a repeater that you aren't using.
But I do have to question what is so fascinating about the conversation on HF. I'm not into HF one drop but the times I have listened to it, and not just field day, would make the starched shorts crowd look like the most interesting people in the world. With most conversation being of the quick "Hi & bye" type, with a brief exchange of rig, weather and signal report and location or it's the gutter of ham radio, what I would call the lowest common denominator, jamming, excessive gutter talk and hate slurs. Either way, you have to torture yourself with static and shout over it and everyone talks like a friggen robot so you can understand one another. So my question is where's all the fascinating conversation on HF?
Good questions, and ones that I asked myself before figuring out the good and bad of HF.
Let me start with your last point about noise. This is a complex question, but here goes... Some bands are inherently more noisy, such as 75 meters in the summer (static crashes / noise from lightning in summer storms). 40 can also be noisy, but it's only half as bad, generally speaking. 20 meters for instance, can be very quiet, and so can 10 meters at times. Those are just a few examples. Antenna type has an impact here as well. Verticals tend to be noisier, dipoles are quieter, beams are quieter yet. What radio you are using has a HUGE impact on how much noise you are going to hear. A starter HF radio ($400-$800 lets say), is going have less in the way of filtering / DSP and with it you will hear more noise. Once you move up to a Kenwood TS-590S or something even better, things change. IF level DSP and generally superior filtering make the experience much quieter. I use the 590 and can knock a LOT of noise out when I need to. That said, there will always be some atmospheric noise, since we are bouncing signals off of the atmosphere, but you really do learn to get used to it more than you would think. Location is a factor also. If you are in a city, you are going to have a higher noise floor, and will need more compensation in terms of equipment, to make up for that. 2 meters / 70 cm spoils you, but you really will adapt if you give it a chance. By the way, there is 10 meter FM for Generals and above, and with a good signal it can sound as good as those two bands can, and work great distances. I have recently worked 10 meter FM stations in South America, Japan, Europe, and all over America. There are even repeaters, including one in NYC that people all over the world talk on.
I think much of what you have heard (and been turned off by) are the contesters and those strictly seeking DX contacts. Now I'm not knocking them here first off, each to his own. But for some like myself (and it sounds like this applies to you), we want to rag chew, and shoot the breeze a bit with somebody, and the quick signal exchanges just don't make us happy. There are times when the bands are FULL of contesters, and you have to really look to find a QSO. But that's what CQ calls are for. You can make them, or you can hunt and pounce on them. These guys want to converse, not just exchange a 5x9 report and move on. There are also great nets to be found on 20 meters, 40 meters, and 75 meters. Some are "stiff" and formal, but not all are. Some are very laid back, containing people who are easy going and have a sense of humor.
Most (but not all) of the "CB type stuff" (intentional jamming, threats, screaming, profanity, playing music, etc.), is found on 75 meters. There is still a tuning dial there though, so nobody has to listen to it. And there are plenty of other bands to enjoy anyway. Much of what you may perceive as "jamming" is actually unintentional. It's quite common to hear one guy who appears to be interfering with a group of people when in reality, though you can hear him, they can't. You may also hear interference from someone on a nearby frequency who didn't even realize you were there, but that is where your notch filter comes in.
HF is an acquired taste, but it's worth trying out. If you have an HRO or a friend with a good setup nearby, stop by and check it out a bit. And remember, if nothing else you always have 10 meter FM, complete with repeaters, where you can talk around the world with FM quality. Technically, narrow band FM is legal in other places as well, but I don't want to get that debate started here. The bottom line is that there are a heck of a lot more people out there worldwide (who can speak English) ready to rag chew, than what any 2 meter or 70 cm repeater has available. Finding them just takes the right setup, and some practice, but they are there, and HF really is worth checking out, at least in my view. And when working HF simplex, there is no repeater owner there to enforce his own arbitrary rules, it's just you and the other guy(s). As long as you keep it legal, you can converse in the way that you and the others are comfortable, just like 2 meter simplex.
rapidcharger
Member
@ K7KOA
Is there are band or frequency you would recommend for listening to the sorts of stimulating conversation that is not found on the 144/440? Particularly a band that is reliable day or night, year in and year out?
I have used 10m FM before. I would love to use it more but for the reasons you mentioned, found it very difficult and it was underutilized, at least, what I could do what it was limited by what I had to work with. I did occasionally hear that repeater(s) in the NYC area.
When there are clearly so many people locally who want to get on HF, why then should I go and spend the thousands of dollars and go through the trouble to find a completely different person or set of people to talk to halfway across the world? I've always had trouble with that. Contesting makes more sense to me than people who want to break off with talking to you so they can go on HF and listen to noise for a half hour before they make a contact with someone else.
We have digital voice and networking in ham radio now. That gives you the ability to talk across the globe or across the street and everyone can hear everyone else without an ounce of static or noise and without elaborate antenna systems and filters that is usable day or night, any month or any year.
I'm not trying to say there isn't anything fun about the thrill of the hunt and making your own infrastructure-free contact with a station in a distant land, or that HF doesn't have any merits. All I'm saying is when you're on a quest to find stimulating conversation, I don't see HF as providing any more than the local bands do.
Getting back to the topic at hand,I haven't yet replied to the OP of the thread who is clearly looking for a more technical and practical applications of the hobby and doesn't appear to even want to talk to other people as was clearly stated in the first post, I would have to suggest exploring the digital voice modes and IP networking. (such as DMR and NXDN) That's got your name written all over it. You can take the same hardware that is used in local emergency response and adapt it to the ham bands, build a network and link together stations, repeaters, gateways for communicating by voice or data regardless of the band or frequency or hardware.
Is there are band or frequency you would recommend for listening to the sorts of stimulating conversation that is not found on the 144/440? Particularly a band that is reliable day or night, year in and year out?
I have used 10m FM before. I would love to use it more but for the reasons you mentioned, found it very difficult and it was underutilized, at least, what I could do what it was limited by what I had to work with. I did occasionally hear that repeater(s) in the NYC area.
When there are clearly so many people locally who want to get on HF, why then should I go and spend the thousands of dollars and go through the trouble to find a completely different person or set of people to talk to halfway across the world? I've always had trouble with that. Contesting makes more sense to me than people who want to break off with talking to you so they can go on HF and listen to noise for a half hour before they make a contact with someone else.
We have digital voice and networking in ham radio now. That gives you the ability to talk across the globe or across the street and everyone can hear everyone else without an ounce of static or noise and without elaborate antenna systems and filters that is usable day or night, any month or any year.
I'm not trying to say there isn't anything fun about the thrill of the hunt and making your own infrastructure-free contact with a station in a distant land, or that HF doesn't have any merits. All I'm saying is when you're on a quest to find stimulating conversation, I don't see HF as providing any more than the local bands do.
Getting back to the topic at hand,I haven't yet replied to the OP of the thread who is clearly looking for a more technical and practical applications of the hobby and doesn't appear to even want to talk to other people as was clearly stated in the first post, I would have to suggest exploring the digital voice modes and IP networking. (such as DMR and NXDN) That's got your name written all over it. You can take the same hardware that is used in local emergency response and adapt it to the ham bands, build a network and link together stations, repeaters, gateways for communicating by voice or data regardless of the band or frequency or hardware.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2012
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- 242
Well, I finally did go for my test today and passed the Technician portion. I attempted the General but didn't make it. I'll study better for that one. Now to get on a repeater.
KJ6ZNS
Member
Congratulations on getting your Tech license. I encourage you to go for the General as soon as you can, it will open the whole world to you. I consider my license not just as a license to use the ham frequencies, but as a license to have FUN using what I LEARN. Again, congratulations, and welcome.
73
73
speedwerx
Member
Congratulations shortwaver on passing your tech! I'm a new ham also and enjoying 2m and 70cm so far. have fun.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2012
- Messages
- 242
Thanks, and I agree that getting General quickly is a good idea.
It does seem a bit odd that the Elmers that have been on the air for decades can have the same privledges of someone just studying real hard for a test. Luckily, it seems to be a very open and welcome hobby; I haven't met any hams that don't openly offer help to the new guys!
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