Relm KNG system key

[DanRollman]

And if talkgroups change or some massive change occurs one is stuck where they are at with what they have? No go for persons who just monitor in my opinion. If that's it then your sol when changes occur which they do. As for actual users and such these radios are decent.

If you have completely start over that isn't a big deal just takes time. But to be locked as is and a system changes massively or even dispatch and secondaries change you might as well just kill or stun it if you can't change anything since you won't hear anything.

You can always build a new file and re-program your radio, yes.

I wonder - can you save a copy of your codeplug just BEFORE clicking the RX Only checkbox? And then in the future, if changes need to be made, open THAT file, make any changes, save again, then click RX Only and re-program? That way, the file saved to the PC and maintained does not yet have RX Only checked, and so has not yet lost the ability to edit further?

Finally, everyone should note that we have only heard of a few people even affected by this issue where a system administrator is disabling radios with a Radio ID of 1. While it is no doubt a real issue for some, I have never encountered it. My KNG and KNG2 radios have always had a RID of 1, and regularly monitor dozens of systems in Georgia, Arizona, Nevada and Southern California, never coming across a system administrator who disables it. So it seems (to me) to be a fairly isolated issue, and one that is remedied (even where it occurs) with the suggestions in this thread.

Dan

 

[cpetraglia]

Can you define "never going back"? do you mean having to delete the system and start all over? or can you not ever program it again. Sorry I'm a little lost. I had a P800 for a minute but I never programmed it. With my P800 coming on Tuesday I want to make sure I am prepared. I'm debating if I am going to stick with neovision or upgrade to res.

What I meant is that when you are lucky enough to load the dummy key, you have to make all your entries before checking the receive only box. You can make any changes you want to the code plug that don't pertain to transmitting or unit ID. You start a new CP, but the receive only box will be checked before you even look at it. All other programmable options are still good. There are really only a very few that may need tweaked after setting receive only. At this point, my SW acts like the system key never loaded, and when trying to re-load it gives an error. So I was able to get a unit ID into my main system. I took a break from programming, closed the software and when I came back the key was no longer effective. So my simple point is: make a list of every system you want to program and get all your stuff done before re-starting the SW. That is of course if you even need a key. As Dan already mentioned most folks may not run into the problem I had. Also remember the new SW is a Beta release and I fully plan to pass this along to Relm. I hope it can be fixed.

 

[gtaman]

Thank you to both of you. Will Tuesday come any faster!

 

[gtaman]

I see what your saying. I looked back at mine and all mine have unit ID of 1 as well because i didnt change it prior to selecting RX only.
In my software i do show my key as registered. It shows System 1 and WACN 1 as having permission. However every system in my radio is RX only and no matter what i do i cant make any changes to unit ID or anything that has been locked down after the RX only option was selected.
Going forward i will make sure to put in a bogus ID to avoid the Unit of 1 just in case what your experiencing happens down here.
The problem i had is a system i monitor is set up with One system ID, with multiple sites and RFSS.
So A city Fire is on Home 1 Site 1, A city Police is on Home 1 Site 2, City B Police and FIre are on Home 1 Site 4 City G police and fire are on Home 2 Site 1..
Under the Neo software i couldnt change the site preferences. With RES that option is there.
It was also recomended to me to enable Force System Reset in the additional options menu.
Basically what this does is each time your unit moves to a new system or in my case a city / department with a different Home / RFSS it forces the radio to rescan and monitor only what i have programmed in for it.
Before my unit was trying to scan stuff that was supposed to be on 2/1 but was on sites 1/1 or 1/3 due to location. Prior to RES i had issues, now its working better for me.

I use neovision 2.4.0 and I can change nearly anything after RX only is selected. The only things I can't change is preferred sites or my radio ID and TX stuff. I can change sites, add talkgroups and system data. My issue I had was like yours. My radio kept roaming to other sites and would not pass traffic because the talkgroups are not authorized to roam on the site. The radio thinks they are but they aren't. What I did was change the coverage type from wide to site. Then I programmed each system to only allow the 1 site. This was all changed after RX only was selected.

 

[IAmSixNine]

With 5.x you no longer have that issue. After RX only is selected sites can be updated. I You can also program in soft keys via the menu that allow you to show site, site search, and then site lock.
I found that enabling site lock, then doing site search, selecting the site i wanted did indeed prevent it from changing to other sites.

 

[wa8pyr]

Forgot one thing...did you guys actually confirm with software like Unitrunker that you are not affiliating even in RX only mode ? I mean, the ID of 1 is a no brainer for system admins to zap. But, I know with systems I have authorization on I still affiliate even on talkgroups that I have in my zone but TG/AG is disabled vs the talkgroups I'm authorized on being unlimited. I'm talking Motorola, but just wanted to make sure RX only on Relm is true RX and NON AFFILIATE, because if not, changing the radio ID will still get you zapped by an alert system admin with basic Genwatch software.

You could also seriously endanger the life of a legitimate system user if you freelance a radio ID other than 1. If your radio does register and affiliate with a freelanced ID, even though it's set to RX only, it will cause the system to route audio to your radio instead of the radio of the legitimate user.

Freelancing radio IDs is strongly discouraged.

Bottom line is, work with RELM to figure out a legitimate fix; don't freelance a fix.

 

[gtaman]

With 5.x you no longer have that issue. After RX only is selected sites can be updated. I You can also program in soft keys via the menu that allow you to show site, site search, and then site lock.
I found that enabling site lock, then doing site search, selecting the site i wanted did indeed prevent it from changing to other sites.

Gotcha. Sorry it should of said proffered sites. I'm going to stick with neovision for now just so I can get use to it. It's quite intuitive way better than Motorola. I will eventually update to RES. I don't have the radio ID issue yet. I have a key set for the site info. So I can check what sites I am on and have them labeled. I will enable roaming again once I have a reason to leave my area. Maybe if I go to Dayton I will bring it along.

 

[IAmSixNine]

You could also seriously endanger the life of a legitimate system user if you freelance a radio ID other than 1. If your radio does register and affiliate with a freelanced ID, even though it's set to RX only, it will cause the system to route audio to your radio instead of the radio of the legitimate user.

Freelancing radio IDs is strongly discouraged.

Bottom line is, work with RELM to figure out a legitimate fix; don't freelance a fix.

Not going to happen. The radio is set to RX only. I have yet to see any affiliation using unitrunker and testing on a few systems around me. It truly is RX only once that feature is enabled in the codeplug and shot to the radio.

 

[gtaman]

It is true RX only. Zero affiliation whatsoever. The reason why the radio ID is changed is the prevent the radio from being zapped if they run a bogus ID kill. Even in RX only, with any radio it will still accept the command to stun. Hence why some users back when we would do it with MTS2000s got their radios stunned.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Yes its true RX only. Thats why this thread was created as the OP was stuck with his RX only radio with ID 1. With firmware 5.x and RES programming software an ID other than 1 can be used if your having issues with a radio being zapped because it has ID 1 even though it never affiliated.

I strongly agree with wa8pyr in stating its a bad idea to use an existing ID from a legit system user as it can cause their radio to not work properly but in this instance it should not matter as long as you enable RX ONLY prior to writing to the radio.

 

[AK4FD]

I'm confused on something. If the radio doesn't affiliate whatsoever on RX Only mode then the SysAdmin issuing a kill command to zap the radio ID should not affect you... If you're not affiliated then the system doesn't know the radio is there and there's no registration so how would your radio stop working? At that point it would basically be a scanner and those don't get zapped when a kill command is issued... Am I missing something here? (Just FYI ive been programming radios for a good # of years now, HAM and otherwise, so I'm just trying to understand the dynamics of a radio being killed when it doesn't register on the system at the master/zone controller). I am interested in purchasing one of these radios as well, when I can get the $$ LOL but I wanna know if it's worth it first.

 

[gtaman]

I'm confused on something. If the radio doesn't affiliate whatsoever on RX Only mode then the SysAdmin issuing a kill command to zap the radio ID should not affect you... If you're not affiliated then the system doesn't know the radio is there and there's no registration so how would your radio stop working? At that point it would basically be a scanner and those don't get zapped when a kill command is issued... Am I missing something here? (Just FYI ive been programming radios for a good # of years now, HAM and otherwise, so I'm just trying to understand the dynamics of a radio being killed when it doesn't register on the system at the master/zone controller). I am interested in purchasing one of these radios as well, when I can get the $$ LOL but I wanna know if it's worth it first.

Genwatch ID pooling. It sends the command to all IDs not on the accepted list. Or common IDs that are know to not have legitimate radios. The radio will always accept the stun command. BK/RELM radios are easy to recover though. I personally have never done it but other members have said it’s not trouble.

 

[APX8000]

Can you guys post up some screenshots or videos of the radio front display on a trunked system. Particularly interested in the KNG2-P800. Does it display the site name, signal strength etc.


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[AK4FD]

Genwatch ID pooling. It sends the command to all IDs not on the accepted list. Or common IDs that are know to not have legitimate radios. The radio will always accept the stun command. BK/RELM radios are easy to recover though. I personally have never done it but other members have said it’s not trouble.

I'm familiar with GenWatch and its functions, what I'm not understanding is how can a radio get zapped if it's not even affiliated or registered with the system?? It's just a scanner at that point passively monitoring... Thanks.

 

[APX8000]

I guess you are not familiar with Genwatch then.


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[gtaman]

I'm familiar with GenWatch and its functions, what I'm not understanding is how can a radio get zapped if it's not even affiliated or registered with the system?? It's just a scanner at that point passively monitoring... Thanks.

Affiliation doesn’t matter. It will accept the command regardless. Also RELM corrected the RID 1 issue with monitor only. Now you can use any radio ID. The safest way is to use a legitimate ID to future proof stun commands.

 

[DanRollman]

I'm familiar with GenWatch and its functions, what I'm not understanding is how can a radio get zapped if it's not even affiliated or registered with the system?? It's just a scanner at that point passively monitoring... Thanks.

Affiliation has nothing to do with a system sending a command to zap a specific radio ID and a radio (that is passively monitoring but is programmed with that ID) accepting the order to commit suicide. Consumer grade scanner toys don't have radio IDs and don't have a kill feature built in, so it's a non issue for them.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[gtaman]

Can you guys post up some screenshots or videos of the radio front display on a trunked system. Particularly interested in the KNG2-P800. Does it display the site name, signal strength etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It can display up to 3 lines of what you want. For the P800 atleast. Radio ID, talkgroup or site. Signal strength is via a very accurate bar graph or via a button that displays the actual real time dB. I think he P800 can do 4 lines. There are a few YouTube videos of these radios. Both the P800 and the KNG2

 

[AK4FD]

Affiliation has nothing to do with a system sending a command to zap a specific radio ID and a radio (that is passively monitoring but is programmed with that ID) accepting the order to commit suicide. Consumer grade scanner toys don't have radio IDs and don't have a kill feature built in, so it's a non issue for them.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Thank you, Dan, for clarifying that for me. I had a hard time understanding how a non-affiliated radio could get zapped but I think I understand the concept now. Even tho it's not registered or affiliated the radio still has an ID programmed in it & still can intercept kill commands OTA, thus effectively zapping it. I believe that's what it is now, thanks!

 

[madrabbitt]

Think of it this way.
Ever been out in public and hear a kid yell out "Mom!"
Every mother in the room turns and looks.

The radio may not be affiliated, and the system may not be aware that specific radio is there, but when the command goes out "All Radio #1, stun" Every radio thats named 1 hears that command and obeys.

Frequently, when using system tools to determine if theres non approved radios on the system, then sending out stun commands to them, a system admin also adds #1 to that list, even if no #1's show up, specifically because of people using unaffiliated radios.

Any radio, affiliated or not, monitoring the system, is going to respond to a command thats addressed to it.

I had two radios on the system in the state I used to work in. One was an agency issued radio with a legit ID, the other was a personal radio i was approved to carry off duty. The way that system was supposed to work was a 5 digit ID, with a single digit prefix, 4 digit unit number. Portables were a prefix of 1, dispatch consoles were 8, and non agency radios of any type were 0, and the other numbers were specific things.
My agency portable was 12819, my personal portable SHOULD have been 02819. Somehow the radio tech programming it gave it an id of 82819, which wasnt on the approved radio database, and it got zapped literally 2 hours into the first shift i had it turned on.

So yes, good system admins using the tools available to them, are typically on top of these things.