Removal of ten codes grant

Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
124
Location
Land of entrapment
#1
Can someone cite the grant, or pdf on it? Stop using ten codes to get a grant to mutual aide with others?

Couple of places have implemented it now and I know fire and ems nfpa has plain language which I've known about or when working with other agencies use plain language.

I ask because some here in this state skip read through or don't read entire grants out fully and 2 neighboring places have opted into a grant where ten codes cannot be used.

I'd imagine there is more to that grant besides not using ten codes, and already talk of encryption full blown in public works, ems, fire, LE over it.

The one entity is small and they follow suit without fully reading or understanding grants. The other has lies to teeth before to get grants so I'd like to find the document on dropping ten codes, and numeric codes for this grant from fema, dhs.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
9,972
Location
Taxachusetts
#2
since approx 2001 the push has been for Plain Language and the FEDS [mostly thru NIMS/ICS] have included in many grants the need for Interoperability [P25 compatability - aka Access, doesn't mean they need to use] and the use of Plain Language, Nothing to do with ENC
Can someone cite the grant, or pdf on it? Stop using ten codes to get a grant to mutual aide with others?

Couple of places have implemented it now and I know fire and ems nfpa has plain language which I've known about or when working with other agencies use plain language.

I ask because some here in this state skip read through or don't read entire grants out fully and 2 neighboring places have opted into a grant where ten codes cannot be used.

I'd imagine there is more to that grant besides not using ten codes, and already talk of encryption full blown in public works, ems, fire, LE over it.

The one entity is small and they follow suit without fully reading or understanding grants. The other has lies to teeth before to get grants so I'd like to find the document on dropping ten codes, and numeric codes for this grant from fema, dhs.
 
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
3,656
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RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
#3
In some ways I can see why this might be, in others I can't. I think a ten code is easier to use and understood during a time when analog was what was used for radio communications. Now that everything has mostly gone digital, you don't have static. So the voice is mostly heard coherently unless it gets digitized, then you really can't hear anyone.

The ten code is just easy to use though and quicker on the mic. When you're in service just say 10-8. Out of service, 10-7. Busy doing something, 10-6. Message recieved, 10-4, etc, etc.. Why change to having to say a longer sentence to a simple meaning?

I think interoperability can be a joke in more ways than one, really.

Can you imagine if ATC used ten codes? "United 553 descend and maintain ten thousand, turn right two, two, zero.."

"United 553, 10-4. LOL
 

N9PBD

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Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
448
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Southern Illinois (Metro St. Louis)
#5
Did you mean 10-4 as in "OK-Acknowledged" or 10-4 as in "Situation is under control- No further assistance is needed"? That is why codes need to go away.
You can blame LAPD for a lot of police departments adopting "Code 4" as "Situation is under control - No further assistance is needed." I do hear a lot of officers using 10-4 as "Affirmative", rather than the correct "Acknowledged".
 

E-542

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Sep 21, 2008
Messages
148
Location
Lancaster, PA
#6
Not to mention the ridiculousness of adding 'signal' codes. And get insanity like '217 is code 6 enroute 10-35 for signal 5'.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
60
Location
Shannon, North Carolina
#9
I don't think that we will ever completely get rid of 10 codes. I say that because we are going on 17 years of NIMS/ICS, interoperability and using plain language and yet I hear 10 codes all the time where I am at despite the NIMS/ICS training that the everybody goes through.
 

ShyFlyer

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Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
532
Location
Colorado
#12
Ahh, good ol' ten codes. NM, to it's credit, has a general set of codes that are common throughout the state. There are variations, though. When I was in Corrections, there were some codes that were different that the general law enforcement set because, ya know, people just have to be special.

When I worked for a certain Sheriff's department there, they had their own set that, while it had many common codes with the general state system, had many more differences. We shared the same code set with the city police and even then there were variances between departments. For example, auto theft was (if I remember correctly) was officially 10-27-7. We abbreviated it 27-7. City called it "Signal 7."

There were even some differences within the department. For example, 10-7 is officially "Out Of Service." If I were to radio into dispatch, "Show me 10-7," it would be interpreted as I was dead or about to die. Seriously. "Code X-Ray" was the proper way to voice over the radio that I was off duty (or use the MDT), 10-7 only being used in reference to vehicles or subjects. City cops called themselves out 10-7 all the time.

The ten code is just easy to use though and quicker on the mic.
Well, yes and no. My current agency is completely plain language. Even the more veteran employees have expunged much of the 10-code language. If I need to call for assistance, all I need to say is "Deputy assistance to one-david, hold medical." Everyone clearly understands what is needed and where without the need for codes nor the entire sentence "I need Deputy assistance to one-david, have medical staff standing by."

10-Codes are great for situations where, if your radio system is in the clear, you want to be discreet about what is happening. Assusming, of course, that someone hasn't publicly published the code list.
 
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