Repeater Discussion

[Muffin]

A number of cities throughout the Lower Mainland are making the switch to MotoTRBO and DMR style trunking. A number of the existing systems and frequencies in use were not in compliance with today's narrowband FM technology.

I can bet you that there is some radio sales dude out there making the rounds right now convincing a number of people to make the switch to the newer technnology as evidenced by the sheer number of "systems" popping up locally (Think Rogers Arena, Canucks Sports & Entertainment, City of Burnaby, City of New Westminster, City of Ridge-Meadows, Hemlock Valley Resorts, Squamish Lifts, etc). Some only have one or two licensed frequencies listed to them but the new technology has the ability to multitask and create double the amount of channels to frequencies. That would be where your contact in Burnaby states that he has access to 4 or 5 channels when TAFL only lists two forr example.

Muffin

 

[kayn1n32008]

A number of cities throughout the Lower Mainland are making the switch to MotoTRBO and DMR style trunking.

MotoTRBO IS DMR, TRBO connect plus and capacity plus are proprietary trunking formats hat are not compliant with the ETSI DMR standard.

It is the same here in Alberta. One local company has not sold a strictly analogue system in a while. Why? Well for the price of brand new DMR repeater, which is almost exactly the same as an analogue one, you get double the number of voice paths.

A number of the existing systems and frequencies in use were not in compliance with today's narrowband FM technology.

Not sure what you mean by this, but unless I missed something there has been no forced narrow banding in Canada like the USA. How ever, I could see that newly licensed systems in large urban areas may be required to be 12.5KHz efficient.

I can bet you that there is some radio sales dude out there making the rounds right now convincing a number of people to make the switch to the newer technnology as evidenced by the sheer number of "systems" popping up locally.

Or they are actually looking at the numerous advantages of some thing like DMR. Having 2 talk paths per RF channel is a serious attraction. That and with the large venues, may like the fact that no scanners can natively decode DMR. Add in the fact that companies like TAIT and Hytera that offer AES-128 or AES-256 encryption for a fraction of the cost of P-25 it makes it a serious contender when old equipment needs replacing.

Really, I can't count the number of times I have seen MSR-2000, Micor, MASTR-2, and MASTR-3, or God forbid Western Radio stations still in use as commercial LMR repeaters. Good luck finding a 138-150.8MHz 30w PA for the MSR-2000. So when these fail, what are the option? XPR-8300/8400, SLR-5000, likely the portables and mobiles have already been replaced with some form of digital capable subscriber.

Some only have one or two licensed frequencies listed to them but the new technology has the ability to multitask and create double the amount of channels to frequencies. That would be where your contact in Burnaby states that he has access to 4 or 5 channels when TAFL only lists two forr example.

Muffin

Actually it allows an huge amount of 'channels' when you factor in that slots and talk groups over and above RF channels.






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[beeperboy]

Good luck finding a 138-150.8MHz 30w PA for the MSR-2000. So when these fail, what are the option?
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Bad example. MSR2000 PA's run forever. :lol:

 

[kayn1n32008]

Bad example. MSR2000 PA's run forever. :lol:

While they do tend to run forever, they do still fail, SARA had one fail in the late fall on the VE6NHB repeater. 30w PA, pretty sure though it was a couple of local idiots talking for hours with out letting the transmitter drop. This PA even had fans on it. Funny enough they have had 4 PA failures in about 3 years on their own equipment too.

 

[mikewazowski]

I've got a 125w PA that's been in amateur service for 10 years now. Previously it was in public safety service.

I picked up a bunch of PA's when the local two way shop was about to bin them. Pretty sure I've got some low split PA's in the bunch.

When the repeater does finally fail, chances are I'll just throw in a 125w low split Quantar I've got surplus.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I've got a 125w PA that's been in amateur service for 10 years now. Previously it was in public safety service.

I picked up a bunch of PA's when the local two way shop was about to bin them. Pretty sure I've got some low split PA's in the bunch.

When the repeater does finally fail, chances are I'll just throw in a 125w low split Quantar I've got surplus.

Makes a huge difference when you have parts squirrelled away. Most businesses that have a repeater for business use don't do that.

Besides, when the repeater does fail(just experienced it with the county I live in) the communications company tells you it is archaic and offers a XPR-8400 as a replacement.

Ham wise a 138-150.8MHz MSR-2000 30w PA are virtually unobtanium these days, as are the transistors in the PA. Unless you have an external PA that can be driven by the exciter, the MSR-2000 stations are getting VERY long in the tooth.


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[Muffin]

MotoTRBO IS DMR, TRBO connect plus and capacity plus are proprietary trunking formats hat are not compliant with the ETSI DMR standard.

Should be more careful with what I reply with at 1:30am - sorry hawk eyes!

Not sure what you mean by this, but unless I missed something there has been no forced narrow banding in Canada like the USA. How ever, I could see that newly licensed systems in large urban areas may be required to be 12.5KHz efficient.

Again, another "example". While there may not have been any "forced" narrowbanding in Canada yet, it is getting harder to find older radios thaqt aren't narrowband but be my guest and buy what you like.

God forbid Western Radio stations still in use as commercial LMR repeaters

LoL - Now there's a blast from the past!!

Actually it allows an huge amount of 'channels' when you factor in that slots and talk groups over and above RF channels.

Picky picky! It was another example only that there is more than 1 channel available.

 

[beeperboy]

While they do tend to run forever, they do still fail, SARA had one fail in the late fall on the VE6NHB repeater. 30w PA, pretty sure though it was a couple of local idiots talking for hours with out letting the transmitter drop. This PA even had fans on it. Funny enough they have had 4 PA failures in about 3 years on their own equipment too.

SARA is doing something stupid to them if they have that many failing. I've seen hundreds of MSR2000 P.A.'s go way over 250,000 hours without even a fart. Lots in continuous duty, some intermittent. The MRS2000 is the most reliable repeater ever made. No fan needed.

 

[beeperboy]

Ham wise a 138-150.8MHz MSR-2000 30w PA are virtually unobtanium these days, as are the transistors in the PA. Unless you have an external PA that can be driven by the exciter, the MSR-2000 stations are getting VERY long in the tooth.


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D'oh, I sent 50-75 low split VHF 30 W MSR2000 repeaters to the metal recyclers last year. I asked the local hams if they wanted them. No takers. Seems they are happier building repeaters out of mobile radios and other assorted junk.

 

[kayn1n32008]

SARA is doing something stupid to them if they have that many failing. I've seen hundreds of MSR2000 P.A.'s go way over 250,000 hours without even a fart. Lots in continuous duty, some intermittent. The MRS2000 is the most reliable repeater ever made. No fan needed.

I fully agree, the MSR is one of the most reliable stations ever made.

Having said that, when you have a couple of morons that like to talk for HOURS straight, hardly letting the repeater drop, on a repeater with a 30w intermittent PA bad things can happen. This is the first PA failure on an MSR-2000 I can think of in a LONG time. Heck even the repeaters SARA has that are made with MAXTRAC radios have not had any failures in recent memory. Crappy way to make a repeater? Sure, with a limited budget, they do work.

I know of a MSR-2000 with a 100w PA, set to about 30w, transmitting into a 3.5:1 load that has worked for over a decade.


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[kayn1n32008]

D'oh, I sent 50-75 low split VHF 30 W MSR2000 repeaters to the metal recyclers last year. I asked the local hams if they wanted them. No takers. Seems they are happier building repeaters out of mobile radios and other assorted junk.

Yea, the kids these days have no desire to buy crystals, so much easier to program a mobile... If you are going to dump a bunch, PM me... There are some of us that actually will make use of good equipment!


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