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repeater ID / control question

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k8zgw

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I don't see anything in the rules that sez anything about "positive" control ??

IF the repeater is not doing CW ID ( or even if it is),
do you need to be able to remotely turn it off ?
There is no telephone line at the site.

So I guess there are two questions here:
Do we need to do CW ID ?
What if someone, not the licensee
is using it and does "something wrong", who is libel ?

How would you turn it off ?

Thanks

Don
 

rescue161

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My repeater uses DTMF codes to turn on/off the transmitter as well as force the repeater to ID. Luckily, I've never had a problem with people doing anything illegal on mine, but if they are, you cannot be charged if you don't know about it. Once you know about illegal activity, you have to address the problem.
 

ko6jw_2

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The control operator of a repeater should have positive control at all times. It's just good operating practice. Telephone lines are one method. I am the trustee of two repeaters and we have a control link on 440 to control the 2 meter repeaters. You need a method to send commands to the repeater which will work even if the repeater is stuck on. If you are trying to use the repeater's own input frequency you will have problems if someone has an open mic or there is malicious interference.

I also monitor the repeaters as much as I can (I work from home).

We are in a tourist area and you'd be surprised how many times people feel no need to ID when using our repeaters. A request for their call signs usually works (or they just go away), but I can can take the repeater down if necessary.

You are responsible for what goes on on the repeater just as you are at your home station.
 

rescue161

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As ko6jw_2 points out, you should be in control at all times, but in the real world, that just is not possible. There is no way that you can know what is going 24/7.

It is not economically feasable for me to use wireline control, so I have control receivers on each repeater. The control receivers allow full control over the repeater, even if someone is keying up the input. Hot mic issues are not a problem as the control receiver uses a frequency that is different from the repeater's frequencies. Once I key up on the control receiver, I have full control to turn the repeater off/on, etc by using DTMF tones.

I have one UHF ham repeater and one GMRS repeater and both are set up the same way.
 

ko6jw_2

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If part 95 covered amateur radio then there would be no discussion. We are talking about part 97.
 
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If part 95 covered amateur radio then there would be no discussion. We are talking about part 97.
This is the GMRS forum…

Part 97 does state that the owner (or control operator) needs to be able to remotely (or locally) shutdown the repeater however, Part 95A does not (but it is not a bad idea).

The question one should ask when building a GMRS repeater, who's gonna use it? If it is just family and licensed friends, I'd put a IDer on it. I'd personally configure the ID to run with the transmit PL disabled this allows you to not have to listen to you're own repeater ID for you and keeps people from tone searching the tone when you are not around to "kill" the transmitter. Another thing I would do, I'd make the receive tone on the repeater's receiver different from the transmit tone on the transmitter. This keeps passers-by or QRM'ers from easily tone searching and accessing the repeater without you're permission.

Now if I was building an open repeater, I'd leave the ID'er off and just build from there. Personally, I try to keep split tones on the repeaters…that's just me. I always try and keep a transmit tone no matter what though.
 

rescue161

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I'd personally configure the ID to run with the transmit PL disabled this allows you to not have to listen to you're own repeater ID for you and keeps people from tone searching the tone when you are not around to "kill" the transmitter. Another thing I would do, I'd make the receive tone on the repeater's receiver different from the transmit tone on the transmitter. This keeps passers-by or QRM'ers from easily tone searching and accessing the repeater without you're permission.
My GMRS repeater is split tone and the IDer is sent in CSQ, so we never hear the CW ID.
 

k8zgw

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ID and control ?

(e) A station need not identify its transmissions if it
automatically retransmits communications from another station which are
properly identified.


If we don’t Auto-ID, we are liable if a public user does not?



(2) The licensee must maintain access to and control over all
stations authorized under its license.


How would I do that? Via tone control on some other frequency receiver?



(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a
written agreement to be kept as part of the station records.

If the permission has to be in WRITING, then how does an "open" repeater owner manage that process.?


These are a couple questions that have come up.
Any thoughts ?

Don
 
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You're not liable if someone fails to ID on you're repeater without an IDer. You could be liable if you had an IDer and someone was breaking the rules (no license, profanity, etc). You'd probably have you're door knocked on first.

For control, it could be having access to the repeater to kill it physically or remotely. Many GMRS repeaters are made up of semi-modern mobile radios. One could kill the transmit radio (if programmed that way by entering the "kill code" on the repeater output with a DTMF pad), tell the controller to stop keying (whether it be through DTMF or IP), put a DTMF controlled relay on the receiver to cut power to the transmit radio.

Written permission is in case the repeater owner needs to take action against someone on a closed repeater. If a repeater is stated open, he has given is permission for the licensed population to use it. One can request permission to some repeaters online (remember, the internet has blown up since the rules were last rewritten).
 

Dantian

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(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a
written agreement to be kept as part of the station records. If the permission has to be in WRITING, then how does an "open" repeater owner manage that process?
The rule you are citing is about shared cooperative use, which deals with ownership, with who pays the bills for the equipment and service.

In asking about an open repeater, you may be referring to what was called Transient Use where licensees show up on a repeater and wish to use it temporarily. Normally this doesn't have anything to do with who owns or pays for the repeater.

In that case a different rule applies. You want to look at 95.179, Individuals who may be station operators, rules (d) and (e), which allow the licensee to grant permission to other licensees, and which specifically excludes this from the shared cooperative provisions.

That's my take on it, anyway.
 
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