# Repeater Input Frequencies ???

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#### bigcheez69

##### Member
Anyone know of a somewhat comprehensive list of the radio bands and how the input frequencies in relation to the output frequencies for common repeaters?

Sorry if that sounded confusing but you get the gist of things

#### car2back

##### Member
what band?

here's some common ones for 10 meter ham:

Repeater Input Channels: 29.520, 29.530, 29.540, 29.550, 29.560, 29.570, 29.580 and 29.590 MHz.
Repeater Output Channels: 29.620 29.630, 29.640, 29.650, 29.660, 29.670, 29.680 and 29.690 MHz.

#### nd5y

##### Member
10m = -.1 Mhz
VHF low band = no standard
6m = -.5 or -1.0 MHz
2m = +/- .6 MHz
VHF high band = no standard
220-221 = +1.0 MHz
1.25m = -1.6 MHz
70cm = +/- 5.0 MHz
UHF (450-470) = +5.0 MHz
UHF (470-512) = +3.0 MHz
746-776 = +30 MHz
851-896 = -45 MHz
935-940 = -39 MHz

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#### bigcheez69

##### Member
phil_smith said:
what band?

here's some common ones for ... ham

Searching for those freqs on the net there seems to be endless info about the ham bands. Although, what I am interested is the typical scanner fare ... public safety, commercial, gov, etc.

I know that many of the police (for example) can transmit on either freq as a 'car-to-car' channel and such.

I would like to program both freqs in the scanner so that it scans output freq and then the input immediately after. This way I would never miss a thing with minimal research.

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R

#### Rayjk110

##### Guest
Uhmm....

Listening to the input for a repeater will do you absolutely no good. A repeater is there to...repeat it. On an output freq. You aren't missing anything by doing that, honestly.

#### rbm

##### Member
I monitor the input frequency for several local repeaters with the attenuator on. In addition to the normal repeater frequency.

That catches my attention when something is happening in my own neighborhood.

Although recently with the BCD996T and BCD396T Close Call it's not so important. I set the alert for CC pretty loud.

Two nights ago CC went off when they arrested a neighbor down the road for DWI. (After he pulled into his driveway and was halfway to his front door.)

#### brandon

##### Member
Rayjk110 said:
Uhmm....

Listening to the input for a repeater will do you absolutely no good. A repeater is there to...repeat it. On an output freq. You aren't missing anything by doing that, honestly.

Some repeaters can be too far away to copy. I know CDF is notorious for using many different tones for different repeater sites. In my situation I have trouble hearing a few of their eastern-most repeaters due to distance and terrain. Since I'm close to where the dispatcher transmits from I can monitor the input (159.360) and it allows me to hear dispatches that would scratchy if trying to listen via the far out repeaters (151.385).

R

#### Rayjk110

##### Guest
Well, that makes sense then. I was gaining the impression that it was for units within the town....but yea that makes sense I guess. I monitor the input on my XTS radio whereas I programmed in the local pd's input with pl so I can tell if something's going down close.

#### Grog

##### Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Rayjk110 said:
Uhmm....

Listening to the input for a repeater will do you absolutely no good. A repeater is there to...repeat it. On an output freq. You aren't missing anything by doing that, honestly.

Wrong, but thanks for playing ....

#### Mstrfxit12

##### Member
Rayjk110 said:
Uhmm....

Listening to the input for a repeater will do you absolutely no good. A repeater is there to...repeat it. On an output freq. You aren't missing anything by doing that, honestly.
Many depts. will use their repeater input freq. with a different PL as a talk-around channel with the thought that most scanner listeners are only monitoring the published output. You may be surprised what you would here on input channels running open PL... Chris

#### loumaag

##### Silent Key - Aug 2014
Mstrfxit12 said:
Many depts. will use their repeater input freq. with a different PL as a talk-around channel with the thought that most scanner listeners are only monitoring the published output. You may be surprised what you would here on input channels running open PL... Chris
While I know this to be true (the use of the input frequency, not the reason stated), it is a bad (very bad) decision on the dweeb who made that decision. It puts the officer's safety at risk.

Consider this scenario:
Repeater location is center of town on a raised structure. Two units close to the center of town are holding a gab session on the input frequency with a PL that the repeater receiver is ignoring. An officer is at the edge of town in trouble and calling for help, but his calls will never be heard because even if he intermittently gets into the repeater between key-ups of the two close in units, his transmission is never heard by the gabbing units (too far away to hear) and the repeater squelch closes each time the close in units overpower the far away signal with the wrong PL.

#### 2112

##### Member
Rayjk110 said:
Uhmm....

Listening to the input for a repeater will do you absolutely no good. A repeater is there to...repeat it. On an output freq. You aren't missing anything by doing that, honestly.

Not so much. If a high-powered transmitter on the input is close to your radio listening on the output, your radio might be desensed by the input transmitter and not be able to hear what's being transmitted through the repeater. Here, listening on the input and switching back to the output for the response might enable you to hear the whole convo.

#### als365

##### Member
brandon said:
Some repeaters can be too far away to copy. I know CDF is notorious for using many different tones for different repeater sites. In my situation I have trouble hearing a few of their eastern-most repeaters due to distance and terrain. Since I'm close to where the dispatcher transmits from I can monitor the input (159.360) and it allows me to hear dispatches that would scratchy if trying to listen via the far out repeaters (151.385).

Same deal for NDF (one state over). We have a frequency called Mountain Receive which is in our radios. Dispatch transmits on that from a mountain top and the distant mountain top repeaters pick it up and relay it on the Rx freq. It's good because you can hear what's going on on the other end of your district (my district is HUGE) when you're too far away to hear the repeater on the far side.

#### W4KRR

##### Member
bigcheez69 said:
Anyone know of a somewhat comprehensive list of the radio bands and how the input frequencies in relation to the output frequencies for common repeaters?

Sorry if that sounded confusing but you get the gist of things

In the UHF band, 450-470 MHz, the repeater inputs are 5 MHz higher than the outputs. In the UHF "T" band, the inputs are 3 MHz higher than the outputs. In the 851-868 MHz band, the repeater inputs are 45 MHz lower than the outputs. In the 935-940 MHz band, the repeater inputs are 39 MHz lower than the outputs. In the new 700 MHz band, Im not sure.

In the VHF high band, there's no set split between the repeater inputs and outputs, it can be anything within reason. In the 2 meter ham band, the split is usually .6 MHz.

#### Gilligan

##### Member
Mstrfxit12 said:
Many depts. will use their repeater input freq. with a different PL as a talk-around channel with the thought that most scanner listeners are only monitoring the published output. You may be surprised what you would here on input channels running open PL... Chris
Just curious if there are any recorded cases of this, say, in the RadioReference database... I've been considering this kind of thing for a long time but haven't came across any actual cases.

#### SCPD

##### QRT
loumaag said:
While I know this to be true (the use of the input frequency, not the reason stated), it is a bad (very bad) decision on the dweeb who made that decision. It puts the officer's safety at risk.

Consider this scenario:
Repeater location is center of town on a raised structure. Two units close to the center of town are holding a gab session on the input frequency with a PL that the repeater receiver is ignoring. An officer is at the edge of town in trouble and calling for help, but his calls will never be heard because even if he intermittently gets into the repeater between key-ups of the two close in units, his transmission is never heard by the gabbing units (too far away to hear) and the repeater squelch closes each time the close in units overpower the far away signal with the wrong PL.

Actually, many police departments do this with ease and organization and its not as complex as one may think.
In one jurisdiction in general and as an example, the officer will ask "10-86", to which the dispatcher announces that they are 10-86 (which more or less means the repeater is off) and then the officer can communicate with the dispatcher. Turning the repeater off is not meant to for cars to communicate with one another, it is meant for a car to speak to the dispatch center. The argument of 2 units gabbing on the input frequency is moot.

Beauty is, that the repeater, big antenna, and tower are all connected to the dispatch console, and as such, the input of the repeater is actually monitored at the console at all times during normal traffic! The 10-86 just makes it that the transmission stops at the console, and does not continue out to the repeater output frequency. As far as safety goes, the dispatcher can still hear the other units (should they have an emergency) without any problem. Likewise, when the police officers use talk-around, the dispatcher does not hear it.

In many law enforcement dispatch centers, the dispatch center more or less is the repeater. The console listens on the input and transmits on the output; it doesn't necessarily use the repeater at all!

Turning the repeater off alleviates a lot of scannerland hearing things because, as someone stated already, most only listen to the output. Not foolproof, but works pretty good. There is nothing wrong with this practice.

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#### K5MAR

##### Member
While I can't say how common it is in all areas of the country, around here there are a number of LEO repeaters where the office is just another repeater user. They transmit on the input and listen on the output. Turning off the repeater means they won't hear a thing either. Several of these that I know of have been upgraded in the last few years, but before it was all they could afford. I'm sure the FCC has something to say about them.

Not the best idea, I know, but you can't always get what you want.

Mark S.

#### JoeyC

##### Senior Member
laggroup said:
Actually, many police departments do this with ease and organization and its not as complex as one may think.
In one jurisdiction in general and as an example, the officer will ask "10-86", to which the dispatcher announces that they are 10-86 (which more or less means the repeater is off) and then the officer can communicate with the dispatcher. Turning the repeater off is not meant to for cars to communicate with one another, it is meant for a car to speak to the dispatch center. The argument of 2 units gabbing on the input frequency is moot.

Beauty is, that the repeater, big antenna, and tower are all connected to the dispatch console, and as such, the input of the repeater is actually monitored at the console at all times during normal traffic! The 10-86 just makes it that the transmission stops at the console, and does not continue out to the repeater output frequency. As far as safety goes, the dispatcher can still hear the other units (should they have an emergency) without any problem. Likewise, when the police officers use talk-around, the dispatcher does not hear it.

In many law enforcement dispatch centers, the dispatch center more or less is the repeater. The console listens on the input and transmits on the output; it doesn't necessarily use the repeater at all!

Turning the repeater off alleviates a lot of scannerland hearing things because, as someone stated already, most only listen to the output. Not foolproof, but works pretty good. There is nothing wrong with this practice.

Your scenario and Lous are completely different operations of the repeater. While the purpose of the scenario you provide seems to be to provide a sense of security to one unit in the field by turning off repeat for the others, using the input freq as a "private" channel as Lou described is certainly a scary scenario in his described emergency situation as the repeater input would most likely be "covered" by the more powerful close-in units chatting.

#### loumaag

##### Silent Key - Aug 2014
TO: laggrooup
Well, as has been pointed out, what you describe is not what I described; or, for that matter, what the topic is about (that is Talk-Around on the Input). Your scenario is used all the time here in Houston on HPD. They don't actually shut the repeater off, but since the consoles are directly connected to the repeater and if the dispatcher keys the mike, all receiver input is muted except in the dispatcher's headset. So the dispatcher can communicate with an individual unit that way, although in fact MDT's are used more often for sensitive stuff.

I still contend that allowing talk-around on the input using some different tone to mute the repeater is dangerous and ill advised.

TO: Gilligan
Yes, there are some in the database, because I remember putting them in and thinking how foolish it was at the time; I am sure other administrators have also put some in. Where are they? I don't remember, it would be pretty hard to remember anything like that based on the volume of updates I have done in the past.

#### mredding

##### Member
For South River's conventional EMS channels, for example, SRPD is just another repeater user. In East Brunswick's conventional system that was modelled after South River's for IO/Backup, however, EBPD's console is the repeater. Go figure.

When EBRS's system was implemented, the input frequency was considered as another talkaround channel with TX on a different PL and RX on CSQ. Wouldn't be a really big deal considering it's not for primary communication with police headquarters and RX on CSQ allows for monitoring repeater input, but for whatever reason the final decision was to exclude it.

K5MAR said:
While I can't say how common it is in all areas of the country, around here there are a number of LEO repeaters where the office is just another repeater user. They transmit on the input and listen on the output. Turning off the repeater means they won't hear a thing either. Several of these that I know of have been upgraded in the last few years, but before it was all they could afford. I'm sure the FCC has something to say about them.

Not the best idea, I know, but you can't always get what you want.

Mark S.

EDIT: I fat-fingered some spelling, now fixed.

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