Repeater keying problem

[myspacebarisbroken]

There are a few repeaters in my area that act strangely (for me) when I try to use them. Using my scanner to confirm this, the repeaters only key up when I unkey my radio. I do have the correct frequencies and tones programed in my radio so I can transmit as long as I want and hear nothing on the output, but when I stop transmitting, the repeater keys up.
Does anyone have a logical answer to this, or am I going crazy???

Thanks.

 

[mikewazowski]

Chances are the repeaters are transmitting fine but you're wiping out the front end of your scanner every time you transmit.

When you unkey, the receiver is no longer desensed and you can hear the repeater.

 

[zz0468]

MikeOxlong nailed it. Desense.

 

[rfradioconsult]

A VOX keying circuit, it;s looking for audio to turn on the tX your unkey squelch burst causes the TX to key. Cuts down on kerchunkers and carrier only transmissions.

 

[myspacebarisbroken]

Is there a way around this? Even when I throw my callsign out, the repeater only seems to key up when I stop transmitting.

I'm going to try to isolate my scanner from my HT and set up vox recording to see if my signal is overloading my scanner like Mike said previously. This way I can transmit 1/2 a mile away and check the recording to diagnose the problem.

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Always appreciated!

 

[zz0468]

Does the repeater have any other users on it? Have you tried calling someone?

 

[myspacebarisbroken]

I do occasionally hear users on the repeater, but I have not contacted any as of yet.

 

[W6KRU]

Two things maximum are needed to bring up a repeater. You can test both of them with your 996XT????

 

[zz0468]

I do occasionally hear users on the repeater, but I have not contacted any as of yet.

Have you specifically tried to call one as soon as you hear them? Have you tried any other repeaters?

 

[myspacebarisbroken]

Two things maximum are needed to bring up a repeater. You can test both of them with your 996XT????

I'm also using an HT.

Have you specifically tried to call one as soon as you hear them? Have you tried any other repeaters?

No, I haven't specifically called anyone.

I just tried a test where I have isolated the scanner from the HT, plugged the scanner into my PC and started recording. I only recorded the repeater tail when I transmitted to the specific repeater. Tried this with a repeater that I know works, and the transmission was recorded. It' doesn't make sense. I even tried using the attenuator on my scanner, yielding the same results.

 

[WA0CBW]

Have you tried simplex to your scanner? Are you using a Yaesu and have the "WIRES" turned on? This blanks the first several seconds of audio on your transmission.

BB

 

[nd5y]

It could also be a problem with the repeater. If the repeater has a long hang time and a desense problem you could experience the same thing. When the repeater receives a weak signal from your HT and keys up the repeater transmitter can kill the receiver and the hang time will still be there when you unkey after a short transmission.

Not all amateur repeaters are well engineered commercial grade systems maintained by hams that work as techs or engineers. Some of them are POS thrown together by people that don't know what they are doing.

 

[kb0nly]

Sounds to me like your trying to hear yourself talk but you are de-sensing the second receiver, aka the scanner by transmitting close to it. Try the radio and scanner on simplex or put the scanner on the repeater input frequency.

 

[myspacebarisbroken]

Have you tried simplex to your scanner? Are you using a Yaesu and have the "WIRES" turned on? This blanks the first several seconds of audio on your transmission.

BB

Sounds to me like your trying to hear yourself talk but you are de-sensing the second receiver, aka the scanner by transmitting close to it. Try the radio and scanner on simplex or put the scanner on the repeater input frequency.

Yes, I just tried simplex with my scanner, and it works just fine.

My radio is a wouxun and does not have a WIRES setting.

Thanks for helping me guys!

 

[myspacebarisbroken]

It could also be a problem with the repeater. If the repeater has a long hang time and a desense problem you could experience the same thing. When the repeater receives a weak signal from your HT and keys up the repeater transmitter can kill the receiver and the hang time will still be there when you unkey after a short transmission.

Not all amateur repeaters are well engineered commercial grade systems maintained by hams that work as techs or engineers. Some of them are POS thrown together by people that don't know what they are doing.

That is a possibility, I'll have to ask around how the average performance on that machine is.

 

[mikewazowski]

Why don't you try breaking into a conversation or calling one of the guys using the repeater after the conversation is over?

 

[myspacebarisbroken]

Why don't you try breaking into a conversation or calling one of the guys using the repeater after the conversation is over?

OK, next time I hear a conversation, I'll try that.
Thanks!

 

[zz0468]

No, I haven't specifically called anyone.

That would quicky resolve whether or not things are working as they should.

I just tried a test where I have isolated the scanner from the HT...

Isolated how?

plugged the scanner into my PC and started recording. I only recorded the repeater tail when I transmitted to the specific repeater. Tried this with a repeater that I know works, and the transmission was recorded. It' doesn't make sense.

The recording makes sense if that's all the scanner is hearing. You have to remember, scanners have LOUSY front ends. I can't emphasize that enough. They're really crappy receivers that are easily overloaded. So, even if you think you have enough isolation, there's a good chance you don't.

I even tried using the attenuator on my scanner, yielding the same results.

I'm not surprised. The level of overload would have to be less than the attenuator value for it to be effective. So, if it's a 20 db attenuator, and the receiver is overloaded by 30 db, that 20 db attenuator isn't enough to help. Add to that, the fact that the attenuator is also attenuating the desired frequency as well.

 

[myspacebarisbroken]

Isolated how?

I left the scanner on the house and went outside to use the HT. I would estimate the distance between the scanner and the HT to be around 500+ feet. If you don't think this is sufficient, I could try a distance somewhere between 1/2-1 mile.

The weird thing is that this setup works for some of the other local repeaters.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9780; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.600 Mobile Safari/534.8+)

Try this: set up your computer/scanner to record the repeaters output. Grab your wouxon and go for a walk, like half a mile, from where the scanner is located, key up and throw out your callsign and give some audio, like "XX1AA testing 1 2 3 4 5 XX1AA clear". After that walk home, and check and see what the scanner heard and THEN report back here with your results. With out that ANYthing we tell you does not matter, asides from zz said about desense. My money is on you desensing the scanner or you cannot get into the repeater well enough to hold it. It is way easier to kerchunk a repeater than talk through it.